# Texas school tells classes to fight back **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 14, 2006, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-school-tells-classes-to-fight-back/376414 "2006-10-14T09:39:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2006, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-school-tells-classes-to-fight-back/376414/61 "2006-10-16T17:33:28Z")
[QUOTE=holmes] I’ll ask you to wonder if what one of the wife’s, children, parents and family members would think if their “man”, jumped Lepine and got shot…stopping nothing. Being proud, doesn’t pay the bills, nor put food on the table, when your main supporter is dead. [/QUOTE] This is an instance where the personal loss is society’s gain; your loss will prevent other people losing their children. It’s just like the child electrocuted when urinating on the railway: none of his schoolmates ever considered doing it again. One loss, many gains. ---
**Author:** ![Bobotheoptimist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/919ad9/32.png) [@Bobotheoptimist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bobotheoptimist)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2006, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-school-tells-classes-to-fight-back/376414/62 "2006-10-16T17:39:52Z")
[QUOTE=msmith537] Because presumably the good guy is not a hardened criminal or a psychopath and is thus more likely to hesitate or freeze up when it comes time to kill another human being. [/QUOTE] That makes sense, I guess. Shouldn’t carry a gun if you’re not prepared to use it, tho… Dammit, wrong debate! I’ll end my hijack now and move along. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2006, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-school-tells-classes-to-fight-back/376414/63 "2006-10-16T18:44:14Z")
[QUOTE=Bobotheoptimist] Why is it the anti-gun crowd (and I’m not including you in this, **msmith537** , just a random rant) seems to believe that a good guy is totally unable to keep their gun from being snatched by a bad guy, but bad guys are super-powerful and it’s impossible to disarm them? [/QUOTE] Well, turn that around. Why is it that the pro-gun crowd seems to think that guns are an effective deterrent, but are also encouraging teaching people to rush those who wield them? I’m not anti-gun. It’s the fact that I do believe that guns are an effective deterrent that I believe no one should be badmouthed for not rushing someone who is wielding one. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2006, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-school-tells-classes-to-fight-back/376414/64 "2006-10-16T18:46:59Z")
[QUOTE=Sam Stone] I look at it from a different perspective: There is an almost zero chance that these kids will ever be in a situation to use what they’ve been taught. School shootings are exceedingly rare when compared against the number of schools there are across the United States. You might as well also teach them proper procedure for what to do in case of being struck by lightning or having a meteor land on their school. However, I’m fully in favor of teaching this kind of thing if it teaches kids to be more proactive, less sheep-like, and more aware of the fact that ultimately, they are responsible for saving their own asses when the time comes. [/QUOTE] In other words, “what furt said.” 😉 ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2006, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-school-tells-classes-to-fight-back/376414/65 "2006-10-16T20:20:26Z")
I think the best defense for many people here would be to use their straw man as a human shield while they make their escape 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2006, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-school-tells-classes-to-fight-back/376414/66 "2006-10-17T00:46:05Z")
> [@](#): > > There’s a great push in modern western society to take the fight out of men (and women, I suppose). We’re trained to be passive, submissive - to rely on the Real Men, the agents of the government like police, to handle the tough situations. That we should just be meek and quiet and hope that the official Real Men can come in time to save us. Actually meekly running away is a very good survival strategy. That was among the first lessons I learned in my martial arts class. The director thereof was an ex-Marine, had been a police officer for 20 years, and continued to lead official self-defense and rape-prevention seminars in addition to running his own dojo, so I don’t think anyone would accuse him of excessive modernist wimpiness. (Then again, maybe they would.) > [@](#): > > I also think there should be practical education classes geared around things like first aid, basic self defense, emergency survival skills, maybe even gun safety. A half-semester course of that would probably teach them more practical things than the rest of the year in school. I’m sure that nearly every district requires a health class including first aid. That other stuff is not in the general purview of schools. Basic skills for day-to-day life should be learned in the home. Schools are for readin’, writin’, and 'rithmetic, and Og knows students are doing poorly enough on those without time taken off to learn how to snare rabbits. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2006, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-school-tells-classes-to-fight-back/376414/67 "2006-10-17T01:07:58Z")
[QUOTE=ITR champion] Actually meekly running away is a very good survival strategy. That was among the first lessons I learned in my martial arts class. [/QUOTE] It’s a good personal survival strategy. So is letting your kid drown in a river if he or she falls in. The question is whether a population that turns away from evil and shuns risk makes for a healthy society. There’s a social contract involved here. I would hope that if I am mugged on a street my fellow citizens would come to my aid. Therefore, if I see a fellow citizen getting mugged, I’ll go to his aid. And while that act may lower the odds of my personal survival, I’d suggest that if this behaviour is universalized it will make all of us safer. ---
**Author:** ![Sens\_Nehtion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@Sens\_Nehtion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sens_Nehtion)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2006, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-school-tells-classes-to-fight-back/376414/68 "2006-10-17T04:13:02Z")
[QUOTE=Sam Stone] It’s a good personal survival strategy. So is letting your kid drown in a river if he or she falls in. The question is whether a population that turns away from evil and shuns risk makes for a healthy society. There’s a social contract involved here. I would hope that if I am mugged on a street my fellow citizens would come to my aid. Therefore, if I see a fellow citizen getting mugged, I’ll go to his aid. And while that act may lower the odds of my personal survival, I’d suggest that if this behaviour is universalized it will make all of us safer. [/QUOTE] Though you are an adult, not a child in school. Would you expect your child to run into a blazing inferno to try to save someone else? I suppose we should provide training for our children to learn fire rescure in addition to self defense and first aid? Not everything that is useful for the betterment of society is practical. I don’t disagree with teaching these things but if schools are already pushing the limit when it comes to budget constraints I don’t see how they are going to afford new classes which require new types of teachers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-school-tells-classes-to-fight-back/376414.md?page=3)