# Texas Sues Non-Trump Voting States for . . . reasons? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 9, 2020, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-sues-non-trump-voting-states-for-reasons/927614 "2020-12-09T02:33:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![erysichthon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@erysichthon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erysichthon)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-sues-non-trump-voting-states-for-reasons/927614/221 "2020-12-11T21:38:41Z")
> [@Election Day \[Week\]\[Month\[s\]\] \[Year\] 2020 follow-along thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/election-day-week-month-s-year-2020-follow-along-thread/924618/7660): > > I personally do not think anything is going to happen re: violent insurrections, as far as wide-scale violence is concerned. I think it’s notable that the brunt of death threats are being made by republican constituents to REPUBLICAN OFFICIALS. I think the fact no one has fired a shot/died so far bodes well…their outrage seems to continue to fizzle, and as noted upthread, the “Kraken” et al will continuously re-file and kick the “but Trump shoulda won” can down the road so far that people will eventually lose interest. IMHO I feel like this was the best case–drawing out a long, stupid loss where their confidence is constantly eroding rather than one singular “piss them off” victory. Well said. This is exactly why I don’t think there will be any “civil war,” or anything close to it. I’m sure there will be some protests and even some gun-waving, but who or what are they going to shoot at? The question of “who’s responsible for Trump losing?” doesn’t have any clearly-defined answer. Is it Democrats in general? SCOTUS? Republican election officials? Dominion? Despite all their ominous talk of “civil war,” Trump supporters wouldn’t have a clue where to start. And they won’t even acknowledge that Trump HAS lost, because he keeps stringing them along with talk of yet another judicial deus ex machina. He’s like a cult leader who keeps predicting and rescheduling the apocalypse. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-sues-non-trump-voting-states-for-reasons/927614/222 "2020-12-11T21:39:55Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > Here’s a quote from the brief: These lawyers sound like they took abaout a semester of law school, then went off to smoke PCP. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-sues-non-trump-voting-states-for-reasons/927614/223 "2020-12-11T22:09:14Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > The law that implements Amendment XIV section 2 does exist and is codified under Title 2. The law says representation _shall_ be reduced. Yes, that’s what it says. Still needs to be enforced. > [@Max\_S](#): > > That being said, reapportionment does not take place immediately, only after the decennial census. See Article I of the Constitution. Article I does not say that apportionment happens only after the decennial census, that is in the legislation of the Reapportionment Act. And Amendment 14 doesn’t say anything about requiring a wait until the next census either. > [@Max\_S](#): > > Even if there _was_ standing to sue someone under that section, the relief being sought would not invalidate any part of the current election. I didn’t say anything about it invalidating the election. Nothing at all. I was talking about punishing a state for violating the 14th Amendment by stripping it of the appropriate number of representatives according to the number of (male over 21) citizens disenfranchised. > [@Max\_S](#): > > First is Congress which has the power to enforce it directly from the amendment. Not just the power, but the obligation. > [@Max\_S](#): > > Second, possibly, is the courts who can hear cases and controversies. Who you would have to turn to if Congress is not following their Constitutional obligation. > [@Max\_S](#): > > Any hypothetical claim of action would require that those who enforce the law neglect their duty Which they would do if they did not follow Article 2 of Amendment 14 > [@Max\_S](#): > > that such neglect is a legal harm to your rights, It is, I have the right to more representatives, according to the constitution. > [@Max\_S](#): > > that the court has the power to provide a remedy Why would it not? > [@Max\_S](#): > > Congress has not reapportioned yet so the case is premature As you said, it is automatic. There is nothing in the 14th Amendment or in 2 U.S.C. 6 that lets them wait until the next census. The wording is specific that their apportionment is reduced. > [@Max\_S](#): > > unless you claim that your representation is in any way affected, you have no harm I mean, that would be exactly my claim. Why would it not be? If I do the math, and find that my state should have 2 more representatives if the state that disenfranchised its voters were treated as the constitution demands it be treated, then my representation _is_ affected. > [@Max\_S](#): > > the court has no power to tell Congress how to reapportion the House. Why not? Does the court have the power to tell congress what laws it can write and enforce? SCOTUS is the be all end all of interpreting the constitution. Who else would have the power to tell congress to follow the constitution? > [@Max\_S](#): > > See the decision I cited previously. I don’t know that that decision is exactly relevant for precedent in this situation, and in any case, SCOTUS overrules district courts, does it not? > [@Max\_S](#): > > To top it off, you can’t sue another state on a theory that Congress didn’t do its job. The question was actually whether you could sue Congress for not doing its job. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-sues-non-trump-voting-states-for-reasons/927614/224 "2020-12-11T22:24:57Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > It is, I have the right to more representatives, according to the constitution. I don’t think it is clear that would be how it worked. Maybe if say, Nebraska was violating Article II then that would mean that there were now 433 members of the House instead of 435. Of course, that would make your state representation worth more, but I could see a ruling that this is meant to be punitive to the non-compliant states, not as a reward for the compliant. ---
**Author:** ![jaycat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaycat/32/3015_2.png) [@jaycat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jaycat)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-sues-non-trump-voting-states-for-reasons/927614/225 "2020-12-11T22:50:04Z")
Is there going to be any further news on this before Monday morning? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-sues-non-trump-voting-states-for-reasons/927614/226 "2020-12-11T22:58:26Z")
> [@jaycat](#): > > Is there going to be any further news on this before Monday morning ? There could be. The could issue an opinion late tonight, or anytime of the weekend. Or Monday. Or Tuesday… The could issue a short “denial” and submit a longer opinion later, but I would think they have the resources to get out a final opinion anytime they want. ---
**Author:** ![jaycat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaycat/32/3015_2.png) [@jaycat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jaycat)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-sues-non-trump-voting-states-for-reasons/927614/227 "2020-12-11T23:00:51Z")
Wasn’t sure if they worked weekends. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-sues-non-trump-voting-states-for-reasons/927614/228 "2020-12-11T23:02:32Z")
Their clerks certainly do, and I seem to recall weekend orders issued from time to time over the years when things were urgent. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-sues-non-trump-voting-states-for-reasons/927614/229 "2020-12-11T23:07:39Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > […] and the sheer number of supporters and make the ongoing “there’s no smoke without a fire” argument to keep challenging […] A good and in this case very fitting answer to this _ongoing_ would be: A pile of fresh dung will do. (Not mine, I think it was Karl Krauss, in German, ca. 1930, but I have not been able to find the precise quote. And I have searched!) ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-sues-non-trump-voting-states-for-reasons/927614/230 "2020-12-11T23:09:20Z")
I wonder if they might wait until Monday just to minimize the amount of time for an even lamer case to be filed prior to the electors voting. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-sues-non-trump-voting-states-for-reasons/927614/231 "2020-12-11T23:11:23Z")
> [@jaycat](#): > > Wasn’t sure if they worked weekends. Looking at the SCOTUS website, they have the following: > The Court **may** announce [opinions](https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/slipopinion/20)on Monday, December 14. The Court will not take the Bench. Opinions will be posted on the homepage beginning at 10 a.m. (My bolding) It doesn’t mean they won’t do something sooner, or that it will be issued at that time. It’s full of wiggle room. Still, it’s a fair guess that Monday at 10:00 will be it. ---
**Author:** ![Jungian\_Camisole1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jungian_camisole1/32/3646_2.png) [@Jungian\_Camisole1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jungian_Camisole1)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-sues-non-trump-voting-states-for-reasons/927614/232 "2020-12-11T23:37:25Z")
Supreme Court rejects Texas and Trump’s bid to overturn election. Wassamatter, Donnie? The Court you thought you had in your pocket is not in your pocket. Too bad, so sad! Edit to add this is breaking news on CNN. ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-sues-non-trump-voting-states-for-reasons/927614/233 "2020-12-11T23:40:02Z")
That’s a fair guess, but this would not be an “opinion” strictly speaking. Even if it has an extensive written explanation, it will be an order, ruling on the motion for leave to file a complaint. It could still be released with the options, but it can also issue at any time, I think. Obviously rulings on urgent things like stays of execution can issue at any time, but I suspect they won’t do anything that seems extraordinary for this. So, probably Monday, song with any other orders issuing then. ETA: Ha! I was going to say, or today, but I thought it was getting pretty late for that on the East coast. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-sues-non-trump-voting-states-for-reasons/927614/234 "2020-12-11T23:42:39Z")
Not a lawyer, doesn’t sound as scathing as I’d hoped. > **[121120zr\_p860.pdf](https://www.supremecourt.gov/orders/courtorders/121120zr_p860.pdf)** > > 41.14 KB ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-sues-non-trump-voting-states-for-reasons/927614/235 "2020-12-11T23:43:03Z")
> [@](#): > > The court’s unsigned order was short: “Texas has not demonstrated a judicially cognizable interest in the manner in which another state conducts its elections. All other pending motions are dismissed as moot.” > > Justices Samuel A. Alito Jr. and Clarence Thomas, as they have in the past, said they did not believe the court had the authority to simply reject Texas’s request. “I would therefore grant the motion to file the bill of complaint but would not grant other relief, and I express no view on any other issue.” > **[Supreme Court dismisses bid led by Texas attorney general to overturn the...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/supreme-court-texas-election-trump/2020/12/11/bf462f22-3bc6-11eb-bc68-96af0daae728_story.html)** > > The president had long considered the Supreme Court his ace in the hole in any post-election litigation. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-sues-non-trump-voting-states-for-reasons/927614/236 "2020-12-11T23:46:30Z")
Trump Twitter meltdown coming in 3 . . . 2 . . . ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-sues-non-trump-voting-states-for-reasons/927614/237 "2020-12-11T23:47:09Z")
Are we finally done? This should be the last law suit standing. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-sues-non-trump-voting-states-for-reasons/927614/238 "2020-12-11T23:50:01Z")
Oh no, there is still more. I think PA plans to file a writ of cert on the one that was shot down earlier in the week. And one of Lin Wood’s lawsuits is on the SCOTUS docket I think. But this was the big one, and I think SCOTUS was pretty clear where they will fall on future claims as well. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-sues-non-trump-voting-states-for-reasons/927614/239 "2020-12-11T23:51:28Z")
There are other state/federal cases. I expect suits to continue for years. Brian ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-sues-non-trump-voting-states-for-reasons/927614/240 "2020-12-11T23:53:08Z")
Ken Paxton can probably kiss that pardon goodbye. Donald doesn’t reward losers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-sues-non-trump-voting-states-for-reasons/927614.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-sues-non-trump-voting-states-for-reasons/927614.md?page=13)