# Texas Tech suspends Coach Mike Leach indefinitely **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [December 29, 2009, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-tech-suspends-coach-mike-leach-indefinitely/522906 "2009-12-29T14:57:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-tech-suspends-coach-mike-leach-indefinitely/522906/21 "2009-12-29T19:20:42Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > 1. So were Mark Mangino, Bob Knight, Mike Leach, Rick Pitino, John Calipari… > > 2. Rich little snots are people too. I don’t care if he’s Bill Gates’ kid - if he’s being made to stand for three hours in closets while concussed, he’s being grossly mistreated. > > 3. Claims of inappropriate treatment _don’t_ come from football players all the time. If there was absolutely nothing to this the investigation would already be over. 1. Sure, all of which had actual evidence presented against them. Hey, I don’t know Leach personally. If he mistreated his players, fire him. But don’t punish someone (and yes, suspension is punishment) based on nothing but a claim. 2. IF he was made to stand in a closet, which is a claim that is in quite a bit of doubt, then he was mistreated. 3. Money talks, and boosters often have more power within a program that the head coach, which is a shame. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-tech-suspends-coach-mike-leach-indefinitely/522906/22 "2009-12-29T19:23:21Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Interesting story here: > > [http://www.lubbockonline.com/stories/122909/spo\_540556326.shtml](http://www.lubbockonline.com/stories/122909/spo_540556326.shtml) > > \*Tech completed an initial investigation before suspending Leach. The Avalanche-Journal learned during that investigation Leach did not dispute the facts, but did not believe he had done anything wrong. Leach also told officials James was a slacker and his father was always calling and acting like a Little League dad. > > Leach had until Monday to write an apology and when he did not, the university officials felt they had to take action. Leach has been suspended indefinitely, with pay, from his role as head coach.\* > > The school must feel he did something wrong if they ordered him to write an apology. > > Kinda wondering about the rumors of legal action. I assume Leach may be seeking injunctive relief to get reinstated for the bowl game, but I have not seen confirmation of anything actually being filed yet. May be kinda tough to find a Judge willing to hear it in time to make a difference… See, this story reads more like Leach is being punished for offending Craig James, and not apologizing, not for any abuse. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-tech-suspends-coach-mike-leach-indefinitely/522906/23 "2009-12-29T19:23:49Z")
It should be noted that Leach is not the only one getting hurt by the suspension. His entire team has to deal with the fallout of having the head coach not there for them as they do final preparation for their bowl game. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-tech-suspends-coach-mike-leach-indefinitely/522906/24 "2009-12-29T22:11:23Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > It should be noted that Leach is not the only one getting hurt by the suspension. His entire team has to deal with the fallout of having the head coach not there for them as they do final preparation for their bowl game. AND MSU has eliminated 14 players, 9 in one big bunch lately. If I were a money bettor I wouldn’t put 2 cents on this game. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-tech-suspends-coach-mike-leach-indefinitely/522906/25 "2009-12-29T22:26:32Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > The school must feel he did something wrong if they ordered him to write an apology. Maybe. It’s also possible they ordered him to apologize because they knew this would look bad and wanted to cover their asses. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-tech-suspends-coach-mike-leach-indefinitely/522906/26 "2009-12-29T23:02:52Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Maybe. It’s also possible they ordered him to apologize because they knew this would look bad and wanted to cover their asses. Or they didn’t want to lose James’s money. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-tech-suspends-coach-mike-leach-indefinitely/522906/27 "2009-12-29T23:12:37Z")
Watching Craig James on ESPN. ESPN is in full “cover the homer’s ass” mode. This is pathetic. All softball questions, and no real questions about the circumstances surrounding the incident - namely, whether the “torture closet” was really a closet. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-tech-suspends-coach-mike-leach-indefinitely/522906/28 "2009-12-29T23:17:57Z")
I think Craig James’ own experiences at SMU and the Patriots has to be considered. He obviously is familiar with coaches and punishment. Running the steps in the stadium is a common punishment. But there is a line between fair punishment and chicken shit stuff. Anyone that has played knows what it’s like running those damn steps. I did it plenty of times. I think Craig James looked at this punishment and realized it wasn’t right. You don’t punish a kid for a medical injury. He had a doctors statement. Leach went to far. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-tech-suspends-coach-mike-leach-indefinitely/522906/29 "2009-12-29T23:19:48Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I think Craig James’ own experiences at SMU and the Patriots has to be considered. He obviously is familiar with coaches and punishment. Running the steps in the stadium is a common punishment. But there is a line between fair punishment and chicken shit stuff. Anyone that has played knows what it’s like running those damn steps. I did it plenty of times. > > I think Craig James looked at this punishment and realized it wasn’t right. You don’t punish a kid for a medical injury. He had a doctors statement. Leach went to far. Wait. How, exactly, did he go too far? He put him in an air-conditioned room with an exercise bike. I might add that the dark room is a frequent treatment for a concussion. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-tech-suspends-coach-mike-leach-indefinitely/522906/30 "2009-12-29T23:29:39Z")
> [@](#): > > On Dec. 17, James said Leach told trainers to put him “the darkest place you can find.” James was sent to an equipment shed near the practice field, where a member of the athletic staff checked on James to make sure he did not lean against anything or sit on the floor. Putting a kid with a medical certificate in a dark room and making him stand sounds like a chicken shit punishment to me. He’s being punished for following the doctor’s orders. Leach is old school. Get your bell rung? Man up, take some aspirin and get your ass on the field. Guys that went to doctors shaved their legs and wore dresses. All the coaches were like that 40 years ago. Woody Hayes, Bear Bryant were legendary for their discipline. My coach made us run till we puked nearly every week. I played hurt and have a bad knee that gives me hell to this day. Leach needs to realize it’s 2010 and not 1967. The days of making kids play hurt are over. The future health consequences are more important than a game. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2009, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-tech-suspends-coach-mike-leach-indefinitely/522906/31 "2009-12-30T00:12:56Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Putting a kid with a medical certificate in a dark room and making him stand sounds like a chicken shit punishment to me. He’s being punished for following the doctor’s orders. > > Leach is old school. Get your bell rung? Man up, take some aspirin and get your ass on the field. Guys that went to doctors shaved their legs and wore dresses. All the coaches were like that 40 years ago. Woody Hayes, Bear Bryant were legendary for their discipline. My coach made us run till we puked nearly every week. I played hurt and have a bad knee that gives me hell to this day. > > Leach needs to realize it’s 2010 and not 1967. The days of making kids play hurt are over. The future health consequences are more important than a game. So, uh, you have no evidence, then? ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2009, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-tech-suspends-coach-mike-leach-indefinitely/522906/32 "2009-12-30T00:32:06Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Maybe. It’s also possible they ordered him to apologize because they knew this would look bad and wanted to cover their asses. That’s true. Leach is going to court over this… [Link](http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=ap-texastech-leachsuspended&prov=ap&type=lgns) Hearing is set for 8:30 AM. He’s seeking a TRO to let him coach in the Alamo Bowl. I think he’s got at least a shot at getting relief here. Not sure exactly what the standard is in Texas, but he’s probably got to irreparable harm and other things. The harm part should be easy. Coaching a particular bowl game is a unique event that can’t be repeated later. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2009, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-tech-suspends-coach-mike-leach-indefinitely/522906/33 "2009-12-30T00:36:06Z")
> [@](#): > > So, uh, you have no evidence, then? Fraid not. 😉 I’m just going by what was reported. If it’s not true then Leach will coast by with a slap on the wrist. If he gets fired that’ll pretty much confirm what’s been reported. He’s taking this to court, over a bowl game suspension? Man, he must really want to get fired. He’s practically spitting in the athletic directors face. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2009, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-tech-suspends-coach-mike-leach-indefinitely/522906/34 "2009-12-30T00:38:48Z")
The current information from a “source close to the investigation”, which appears to be more accurate as to what did happen says, > [@](#): > > The person close to the inquiry said James spent two hours Dec. 17 in a shed the size of a one-car garage that was filled with coolers and that the player was “caught” sitting down on one. All the coolers then were removed, the person said, and the door to the shed was closed with James inside. > > On Dec. 19, James was taken to an electrical room but the buzz was too loud, so he was taken to a press room where the furniture was removed and he was told not to sit down, the person said. I think the troubling nature of the allegations boils down to two things: 1. Did they in fact prevent the player from sitting down? If so, why? It reeks of being punished. 2. Was the intent of the coach to punish the player for his apparent lack of fortitude? If either of those turns out to be the truth, then I think the coach is on thin ice. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2009, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-tech-suspends-coach-mike-leach-indefinitely/522906/35 "2009-12-30T00:43:15Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > That’s true. > > Leach is going to court over this… > > [Link](http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=ap-texastech-leachsuspended&prov=ap&type=lgns) > > Hearing is set for 8:30 AM. He’s seeking a TRO to let him coach in the Alamo Bowl. I think he’s got at least a shot at getting relief here. Not sure exactly what the standard is in Texas, but he’s probably got to irreparable harm and other things. The harm part should be easy. Coaching a particular bowl game is a unique event that can’t be repeated later. Except there is no irreparable harm to him. As long as he’s getting paid either way, what difference does it make as an employee whether or not he gets to experience being a coach at this particular bowl game? He’ll also have to establish that he’s very likely to win on the merits of the case. I think that’s also relatively tough for him to meet, if as is being alleged elsewhere, the university is close to a decision to fire him based upon the results of the investigation to date. Personally, I think the TRO request is nothing more than an attempt to put pressure on the university to divulge what it has concluded as soon as possible, so that Leach’s attorney can put pressure on them to solve the situation with some sort of negotiated payout before they have to pull the trigger on Thursday, if they intend to save the $.8 Million. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2009, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-tech-suspends-coach-mike-leach-indefinitely/522906/36 "2009-12-30T00:58:59Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Except there is no irreparable harm to him. As long as he’s getting paid either way, what difference does it make as an employee whether or not he gets to experience being a coach at this particular bowl game? If I were representing him, I’d argue that coaching in this bowl game is something he’s earned by leading his team to be selected. It’s an honor that should not be taken from him without due process, which he has not yet received. The “glory” (for lack of a beter term) of coaching a bowl game is not the same as money he receives in salary. I suspect you’re right about him also having to show he’s likely to prevail on the merits, and that’s going to be more difficult to prove, especially in an expedited hearing. He may also have to demonstrate that the potential harm to himself outweighs the burden on the school if the TRO were to be granted. Really not seeing much of a burden to Texas Tech in having their coach do his job for one more game. Whatever he’s done or not done can be handled after the game. Gonna be interesting to see what the court does… ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2009, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-tech-suspends-coach-mike-leach-indefinitely/522906/37 "2009-12-30T01:13:37Z")
> [@](#): > > Liggett said while James was secluded on two occasions, he was not treated inappropriately and had a doctor’s statement attesting to that. > > "There’s much, much more than meets the eye,‘’ Liggett said. "The diagnosing doctor has signed a note stating that Adam James was in no way injured by the actions coach Leach took. His lawyer thinks everything is ok because the kid wasn’t physically injured by his coach? :dubious: Punishment doesn’t have to be physical. Being humiliated in front of your peers is punishment. Leach was making an example of this kid for the team. I understand the lawyer is doing his job. But, he needs to say something better than this. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2009, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-tech-suspends-coach-mike-leach-indefinitely/522906/38 "2009-12-30T01:39:37Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > His lawyer thinks everything is ok because the kid wasn’t physically injured by his coach? :dubious: Yeah, I kind of rolled my eyes at that. My gut reaction was that this is the country we get for going along with waterboarding. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2009, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-tech-suspends-coach-mike-leach-indefinitely/522906/39 "2009-12-30T01:46:37Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > AND MSU has eliminated 14 players, 9 in one big bunch lately. If I were a money bettor I wouldn’t put 2 cents on this game. After all this I would be astounded if there was a line on the game. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2009, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-tech-suspends-coach-mike-leach-indefinitely/522906/40 "2009-12-30T01:54:33Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > His lawyer thinks everything is ok because the kid wasn’t physically injured by his coach? :dubious: > Punishment doesn’t have to be physical. Being humiliated in front of your peers is punishment. Leach was making an example of this kid for the team. > > I understand the lawyer is doing his job. But, he needs to say something better than this. Even if this is the case, I’m not sure why this is an issue. Coaches make examples of players all the time. If you’re not quick enough off the ball in practice, you run sprints. If you run your mouth, you run laps until your attitude improves. If the kid isn’t hurt, IMO, no big deal. It’s football. The question is if James was punished BECAUSE of his medical status. If so, then I have no problem with showing Leach the door. If, however, it was another issue (running bad routes, having a crap attitude, dropping balls, late for practice, or any of a million other things), then this whole thing is crap. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-tech-suspends-coach-mike-leach-indefinitely/522906.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-tech-suspends-coach-mike-leach-indefinitely/522906.md?page=3)