# Texas toddler dies after mom leaves her in a hot car for 45 minutes **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 18, 2010, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-toddler-dies-after-mom-leaves-her-in-a-hot-car-for-45-minutes/543728 "2010-06-18T23:51:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Call_Me_Shirley)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-toddler-dies-after-mom-leaves-her-in-a-hot-car-for-45-minutes/543728/281 "2010-06-22T17:24:54Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I was talking about the unattended child statutes, not neglect statutes. Your cite is off point. It is illegal in Texas to leave a baby unattended in a car. It isn’t necessary to interpret a broader neglect statute. Leaving a baby in a car is a specific, delineated crime in itself. Funny, then, that you are again refusing to provide a cite for this Texas law, when such a cite would easily prove you right. You were asked for the cite several pages ago, and again by me, but still refuse to provide it. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-toddler-dies-after-mom-leaves-her-in-a-hot-car-for-45-minutes/543728/282 "2010-06-22T17:30:45Z")
> [@Bearflag70](#): > > When he says “illegal” now, he means an infraction under a strict liability statute, probably in the Vehicle Code. He’s moved on from murder and criminal negligence to an infraction statute with a fine of something like $100, as referenced in the other thread, because he’s got nothing else to hang his hat on at this point. No, the statutes against leaving babies in cars were the only ones I was ever referring to. I assumed everyone knew that, and that’s why I kept asking them to cite “I forgot” exceptions. It took me a while to figure out that a lot of people had no idea the unattended child statutes existed all by themselves. The level of penalty is irrelevant. I never made a claim about the level of penalty. I just said it was illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Call_Me_Shirley)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-toddler-dies-after-mom-leaves-her-in-a-hot-car-for-45-minutes/543728/283 "2010-06-22T17:31:04Z")
OK, **Dio** , I Googled the [Texas](http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/SOTWDocs/PE/htm/PE.22.htm)law, and here it is: > [@Texas penal code 5-22-10](#): > > Sec. 22.10. LEAVING A CHILD IN A VEHICLE. (a) A person commits an offense if he **intentionally or knowingly** leaves a child in a motor vehicle for longer than five minutes, knowing that the child is: > > (1) younger than seven years of age; and > > (2) not attended by an individual in the vehicle who is 14 years of age or older. > > (b) An offense under this section is a Class C misdemeanor. I await your retraction. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-toddler-dies-after-mom-leaves-her-in-a-hot-car-for-45-minutes/543728/284 "2010-06-22T17:32:44Z")
> [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](#): > > Funny, then, that you are again refusing to provide a cite for this Texas law, when such a cite would easily prove you right. You were asked for the cite several pages ago, and again by me, but still refuse to provide it. I provided a link to the statutes several pages ago. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-toddler-dies-after-mom-leaves-her-in-a-hot-car-for-45-minutes/543728/285 "2010-06-22T17:33:47Z")
> [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](#): > > OK, **Dio** , I Googled the [Texas](http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/SOTWDocs/PE/htm/PE.22.htm)law, and here it is: > > I await your retraction. What retraction? This proves me right. ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-toddler-dies-after-mom-leaves-her-in-a-hot-car-for-45-minutes/543728/286 "2010-06-22T17:46:00Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No, the statutes against leaving babies in cars were the only ones I was ever referring to. I assumed everyone knew that, and that’s why I kept asking them to cite “I forgot” exceptions. It took me a while to figure out that a lot of people had no idea the unattended child statutes existed all by themselves. The level of penalty is irrelevant. I never made a claim about the level of penalty. I just said it was illegal. **HORSE-FEATHERS!** You argued murder and criminal negligence. You didn’t change your game to other statutes until you were forced out of murder and criminal negligence. Exhibit 1: > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic > Parents who do that crap should be jailed for life. They are murderers. Exhibit 2: > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic > Leaving a baby in a car is automatically criminally negligent by statute. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-toddler-dies-after-mom-leaves-her-in-a-hot-car-for-45-minutes/543728/287 "2010-06-22T17:48:34Z")
Yeah, I gotta say the bullshit is deep in here. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-toddler-dies-after-mom-leaves-her-in-a-hot-car-for-45-minutes/543728/288 "2010-06-22T17:50:08Z")
I never argued “murder” as anything but a subjective opinion., and I never made any claim at all about the level of penalty. ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-toddler-dies-after-mom-leaves-her-in-a-hot-car-for-45-minutes/543728/289 "2010-06-22T18:02:30Z")
Just so everyone in this thread knows your game, here is the post from the other thread. > [@Dio, at it again and raising the bar](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dio-at-it-again-and-raising-the-bar/543888/202): > > You argued that it was murder and criminal negligence _per se_. You argued mental state is irrelevant to a legal discussion on this topic. You argued mental state is irrelevant to criminal negligence. You argued the act is criminal negligence regardless of mental state. You argued criminal negligence is “automatic” by statute. You were wrong. > > When the infraction cites were presented, I immediately admitted I was wrong in claiming there was no crime. There is a crime: an infraction. I was right as to criminal negligence and homicide, but wrong in saying there is no crime. > > Why don’t you step up and do likewise? > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic > You’re grasping at straws. It is possible to have an opinion that someone is a murderer without that person having to be convicted of it. It’s not just a legal term (actually, I think “homicide” is more common in the written statutes). > This objection has no relevance to the legal discussion. It’s just you being offended by my opinion of people who commit a particular crime. > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic > What did I say that was factually wrong, dude, and what have I changed position on? I made one legal claim. I was right. Other people were wrong (and they DID deny that it was a per se crime to leave a kid in a car. It wasn’t a “no shit” situation). I think you’re reading a different thread than what’s actually here. > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic > Not special, NORMAL. MOST parents would never do it. It’s fucking bullshit to say that they would. > > That’s not what the pitting is for, though. The pitting is because I said that it isn’t necessary for leaving the aby to be intentional in order for it to be negligent homicide. That is a factually correct statement, not an opinion. Some people want to change the laws to make it legal if they say it was an acident. I object to that. > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic > Leaving a baby alone in a car is automatically negligent, regardless of state of mind. > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic > Negligence is not a state of mind, it’s a physical act. States of mind cannot be legislated. there is nothing in any statute that says leaving a baby in a car has to be willful to be illegal. > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic > I know what mens rea means, by the way. It’s not relevant in these cases. They are strict liability crimes. > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic > A reasonable person would be aware that leaving a baby in a car could hurt it. > > Plus, it’s just flat illegal to leave a baby in the car. There aren’t any loopholes or exceptions. Whether it results in death is neither here nor there. it’s negligent whether the parent intended it or not. > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic > Show me a statute that says intent must be proven to find a person negliegent for leaving baby in the car. > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic > It sounds like they are. If they know the danger, then they are negligent. > > What cases would those be? Cite? > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic > Ok, I said “murderers.” That’s a subjective opinion. You don’t have to like it, but it’s just an opinion. I still didn’t say the punishment was life in prison. I just said it was illegal to leave the baby in the car, and everyone else kept talking about criminal negligence laws when I was talking about unattended child laws > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic > For the record, I never claimed it was a felony, I just said it was illegal. > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic > I already do that. That’s why it absolutely can’t happen to me. Parents who do that crap should be jailed for life. They are murderers. I am better they are. I will not be told that I would ever do the same thing. There’s no way in hell. > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic > There is no contradiction. A few seconds is not a few hours. > > I am not just like them, and you do have to put parents who do this in jail or you’re just giving people a legal way to kill their kids on purpose and get away with it by saying it was an accident. > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic > They’re not innocent, they killed a baby, and if you don’t want to jail them, then you’re saying it should be legal to leave a baby in a car until it dies. Why do you want to legalize that? That’s horrific. > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic > For those who object to punishment for this kind of negligence – are you saying that leaving a baby in a car until it dies should be legal? If not, the what are you saying? Is it a crime or isn’t it? > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic > It automatically means you committed an act of negligance, How you are as a parent otherwise is utterly irrelevant. > > Should it be legal to leave a baby in a car until it dies, yes or no? > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic > So you’re now saying it should be legal? Anyone who wants to kill their baby need only leave it to die in their car and receive a get-out-of-jail-free card? > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic > So it should be legal to leave a baby in a car until it dies? > > If somebody decides they want to kill their baby on purpose, you would be in favor of giving them a free and legal way to do it? > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic > There is ignorance involved with this, not just negligence. It’s not necessarily forseeable or knowable to a lot of parents that taking their kids to McDonalds could make them diabetic. It’s forseeable to all of them that leaving a baby in a hot car could kill it. > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic > How should I know? That’s my point. How can ANYBODY tell if its intentional or not? What would be the means of making that determination? If they cry a lot, they’re innocent? Susan Smith cried a lot. Casey Anthony cried a lot. So what? > > If a parent leaves a baby in a car, and the baby dies, and those facts are agreed to, we have a case of negligent homicide. If you want to make an exception and let them go if the act was unintentional, somebody is going to have to PROVE it was unintentional. How do you do that? Are you going to let them go unless intentionality can also be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? In that case, you’d be making it awfully easy to get away with. > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic > If you give them the loophole, there definitely are parents who would plan on “forgetting.” > > Forgetting is not an excuse. > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic > This is not a profitable analogy. It does not involve an act of negligence on the part of the driver. Forgetting a baby is negligence. It’s not an excuse, it’s a negligent act in itself. > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic > How exactly are you defining the “crime” now? The act of leaving a baby in the car until it dies IS the crime. If that much is proven, the crime is proven. What other circumstances are you suggesting should be present? > > It sounds like you’re saying the state should have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the parent did it on purpose. Is that what you’re saying? If that’s the case, you’re essentially making it legal, since it would be virtually impossible to ever prove intentionality unless the person confessed to someone. > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic > I don’t care. I’m not asking those juries anything, I’m asking whether people posting here think leaving a baby in a car until it dies should be legalized. They seem to think it does. > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic > Show me where any statute says that intent is a factor in the legality of leaving a baby in a car. > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic > That’s what I’M trying to find out. Apparently, they at least think the law should be changed so that intentionality has to be proven. If that’s the case, they’d be making it almost impossible to get convictions. > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic > I meant to say that the other way around. I can’t believe I did that. I meant to say the presumption of innocence still obtains, yes of course, but that the burden is already met if it is undisputed that a parent left a baby in the car. Intentionality is not something that has to be proven, only that they did it. > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic > Leaving a baby in a car is automatically criminally negligent by statute. > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic > Show me a statute that says that intentionality must be proven. > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic > It doesn’t have to be established. Intent is irreelvant. No intent is necessary for it to be negligence. > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic > It’s legally irrelevant in the acse of leaving a baby in the car. No intent is required in order for it to be a crime. Why is that so hard to understand? It’s not a legal excuse to say you forgot. > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic > What post has proven me wrong? Show me a statute that says intent is necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-toddler-dies-after-mom-leaves-her-in-a-hot-car-for-45-minutes/543728/290 "2010-06-22T18:09:34Z")
> [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](#): > > OK, **Dio** , I Googled the [Texas](http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/SOTWDocs/PE/htm/PE.22.htm)law, and here it is: > > I await your retraction. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > What retraction? This proves me right. This statute proves you wrong insofar as you have been arguing mental state is irrelevant and the act in question is criminal negligence per se. * * * Texas penal code 5-22-10 Sec. 22.10. LEAVING A CHILD IN A VEHICLE. (a) A person commits an offense if he **intentionally** or **knowingly** leaves a child in a motor vehicle for longer than five minutes, knowing that the child is: (1) younger than seven years of age; and (2) not attended by an individual in the vehicle who is 14 years of age or older. (b) An offense under this section is a Class C misdemeanor. * * * Forgetting negates intent and knowledge, and there must be a concurrence between the mental state and the act. In other words, you must have the requisite knowledge at the same time as the act itself. ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-toddler-dies-after-mom-leaves-her-in-a-hot-car-for-45-minutes/543728/291 "2010-06-22T18:15:50Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I never argued “murder” as anything but a subjective opinion., and I never made any claim at all about the level of penalty. This whole thread is about the law as applied to the facts. You argued, “They are murderers.” Now you claim you didn’t really mean it. :dubious: You argued, “Parents who do that crap should be jailed for life.” Now, you say you “never made any claim at all about the level of penalty.” :dubious: . ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Call_Me_Shirley)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-toddler-dies-after-mom-leaves-her-in-a-hot-car-for-45-minutes/543728/292 "2010-06-22T18:18:48Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I provided a link to the statutes several pages ago. Uh, no you didn’t. Now you’re just straight up lying. You were asked for a cite. You quoted the request for a cite and said “Google any statute. Show me one that says it has to be intentional.” That’s it. That’s what happened. You never provided a cite. For obvious reasons, since the cite would have shown how full of shit you are. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-toddler-dies-after-mom-leaves-her-in-a-hot-car-for-45-minutes/543728/293 "2010-06-22T18:21:49Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I never argued “murder” as anything but a subjective opinion., and I never made any claim at all about the level of penalty. Sure you did. Besides the calling the parents murderers, you indicated that anybody who didn’t want to throw parents in jail for leaving their babies in cars wanted it to be legal. [QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I am not just like them, and you do have to put parents who do this in jail or you’re just giving people a legal way to kill their kids on purpose and get away with it by saying it was an accident. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] They’re not innocent, they killed a baby, and if you don’t want to jail them, then you’re saying it should be legal to leave a baby in a car until it dies. Why do you want to legalize that? That’s horrific. [/QUOTE] Well, [here’s the Texas Penal Code](http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/PE/htm/PE.12.htm#12.23) on Class C Misdemeanor, which is what intentionally or knowingly leaving a child in a car in Texas represents: > [@](#): > > Sec. 12.23. CLASS C MISDEMEANOR. An individual adjudged guilty of a Class C misdemeanor shall be punished by a fine not to exceed $500. Now, how was it you were arguing for jail time for this infraction when you knew all along that there was no jail time involved? ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-toddler-dies-after-mom-leaves-her-in-a-hot-car-for-45-minutes/543728/294 "2010-06-22T18:31:59Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I already do that. That’s why it absolutely can’t happen to me. Parents who do that crap should be jailed for life. They are murderers. I am better they are. I will not be told that I would ever do the same thing. There’s no way in hell. It’s going to be very hard for you when a 6 year old child runs out between 2 parked cars and you drive over her and crush her skull and kill her. You will be blamed for not reacting fast enough and you’ll do what…? Inform all who judge you that they are not in a position to judge you and your reaction times as a driver are immensely superior to all of theirs and it is the fault of the 6 year old? They’ll reply by saying that people who drive over 6 year olds should be jailed for life. It must be lovely this time of year, way up there on your pedestal. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Call_Me_Shirley)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-toddler-dies-after-mom-leaves-her-in-a-hot-car-for-45-minutes/543728/295 "2010-06-22T18:33:55Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > Well, [here’s the Texas Penal Code](http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/PE/htm/PE.12.htm#12.23) on Class C Misdemeanor, which is what intentionally or knowingly leaving a child in a car in Texas represents: > > Now, how was it you were arguing for jail time for this infraction when you knew all along that there was no jail time involved? To be fair to **Dio** , if the child is injured it becomes a felony. But the maximum penalty for that is still only 2 years in jail. (According to the Texas Department of Family and Protective Services website.) Not that this excuses **Dio** ’s histrionics, or makes him correct about the ocean of bullshit he’s spewed in here. ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-toddler-dies-after-mom-leaves-her-in-a-hot-car-for-45-minutes/543728/296 "2010-06-22T18:40:27Z")
Here are some options for you: 1. Do the honorable thing and admit you were wrong on one or more points. 2. Do the easy thing and quietly slither away. 3. Keep misrepresenting your positions and keep moving the goalposts, hoping people don’t call you out on it. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-toddler-dies-after-mom-leaves-her-in-a-hot-car-for-45-minutes/543728/297 "2010-06-22T18:44:52Z")
> [@Bearflag70](#): > > This statute proves you wrong insofar as you have been arguing mental state is irrelevant and the act in question is criminal negligence per se. > > * * * > > Texas penal code 5-22-10 > Sec. 22.10. LEAVING A CHILD IN A VEHICLE. (a) A person commits an offense if he **intentionally** or **knowingly** leaves a child in a motor vehicle for longer than five minutes, knowing that the child is: > > (1) younger than seven years of age; and > > (2) not attended by an individual in the vehicle who is 14 years of age or older. > > (b) An offense under this section is a Class C misdemeanor. > > * * * > > Forgetting negates intent and knowledge, and there must be a concurrence between the mental state and the act. In other words, you must have the requisite knowledge at the same time as the act itself. Forgetting does NOT negate knowledge. All those parents knew the kids were in the car. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-toddler-dies-after-mom-leaves-her-in-a-hot-car-for-45-minutes/543728/298 "2010-06-22T18:47:38Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > It’s going to be very hard for you when a 6 year old child runs out between 2 parked cars and you drive over her and crush her skull and kill her. You will be blamed for not reacting fast enough and you’ll do what…? Inform all who judge you that they are not in a position to judge you and your reaction times as a driver are immensely superior to all of theirs and it is the fault of the 6 year old? > > They’ll reply by saying that people who drive over 6 year olds should be jailed for life. > > It must be lovely this time of year, way up there on your pedestal. This is a stupid analogy. This is a situation where the driver has no control. All the baby cookers had control of the situation. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-toddler-dies-after-mom-leaves-her-in-a-hot-car-for-45-minutes/543728/299 "2010-06-22T18:49:52Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Forgetting does NOT negate knowledge. All those parents knew the kids were in the car. So you’re saying they intentionally left the child in the car and walked away knowing they were engaged in the act of killing their child? ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-toddler-dies-after-mom-leaves-her-in-a-hot-car-for-45-minutes/543728/300 "2010-06-22T18:52:19Z")
> [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](#): > > To be fair to **Dio** , if the child is injured it becomes a felony. But the maximum penalty for that is still only 2 years in jail. (According to the Texas Department of Family and Protective Services website.) Not that this excuses **Dio** ’s histrionics, or makes him correct about the ocean of bullshit he’s spewed in here. Fair enough. But I still don’t believe that \*\*Dio \*\*had this specific law in mind when he made all the asinine statements he’s made wrt murder and legality. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-toddler-dies-after-mom-leaves-her-in-a-hot-car-for-45-minutes/543728.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-toddler-dies-after-mom-leaves-her-in-a-hot-car-for-45-minutes/543728.md?page=16)