# Texas toddler dies after mom leaves her in a hot car for 45 minutes **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 18, 2010, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-toddler-dies-after-mom-leaves-her-in-a-hot-car-for-45-minutes/543728 "2010-06-18T23:51:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Green\_Rosetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Green\_Rosetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Rosetta)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-toddler-dies-after-mom-leaves-her-in-a-hot-car-for-45-minutes/543728/81 "2010-06-20T02:55:09Z")
The line in the article about the little girl ripping out all her hair before she died will haunt me for a long time. I may have trouble sleeping tonight. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > So you’re now saying it should be legal? Anyone who wants to kill their baby need only leave it to die in their car and receive a get-out-of-jail-free card? Come off it, dude. You know damn well no one here is suggesting that. This is all about if something accidental should be considered criminal. If your child darts out in front of your car and you hit and kill him, are you a murderer because if you REALLY loved your child, you’d have been paying attention? If your child gets abused by a baby sitter, are you to blame because you didn’t thoroughly vet the caregiver? ---
**Author:** ![Joanie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@Joanie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joanie)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-toddler-dies-after-mom-leaves-her-in-a-hot-car-for-45-minutes/543728/82 "2010-06-20T02:59:18Z")
Our justice system contains checks and balances in recognition of the fact that criminal cases are often not black and white - not a simple matter to decide. In one case, a parent may intentionally leave a child in a car to try and murder the child because they can’t stand taking care of it any longer. In another case, a parent may do the same thing but it may be an accident. A parent who reaches for a policeman’s gun to try and take their own life would seem to be in the “accidental” category. But that is one reason why we have judges as well as the legislature. They can be described as the “checks and balances”. The legislators may write a statute explaining the letter of the law. But it may need a judge to sit in judgement of an individual case to decide whether the guilty parent should be sent to prison for a very long time or whether the parent can be given a more lenient sentence. I don’t know what the answer is. But I’m very grateful for our justice system that recognizes the need for experienced judges to sit on these cases and make their decisions based on the facts of each case. I know we don’t automatically throw every parent into the penitentiary because every case is not the same. Thank goodness for our justice system that recognizes the complexity of these cases. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-toddler-dies-after-mom-leaves-her-in-a-hot-car-for-45-minutes/543728/83 "2010-06-20T03:03:22Z")
> [@Green\_Rosetta](#): > > Come off it, dude. You know damn well no one here is suggesting that. This is all about if something accidental should be considered criminal. If your child darts out in front of your car and you hit and kill him, are you a murderer because if you REALLY loved your child, you’d have been paying attention? If your child gets abused by a baby sitter, are you to blame because you didn’t thoroughly vet the caregiver? That happened to a couple in my hometown. I had never seen anyone that carried the air of sadness like these two people. When they died decades later everybody seemed actually happy that they were relieved from their perpetual sadness. They were never charged with anything, BTW. ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-toddler-dies-after-mom-leaves-her-in-a-hot-car-for-45-minutes/543728/84 "2010-06-20T03:07:43Z")
how about those distance beeper things that they already sell? repackage it as love bands (together forever, always!) and even those old enough to walk won’t wander too far off without you knowing immediately. of course, any gadget should be used as additional precaution on top of a parent’s natural paranoia and not as a replacement. ---
**Author:** ![Joanie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@Joanie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joanie)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-toddler-dies-after-mom-leaves-her-in-a-hot-car-for-45-minutes/543728/85 "2010-06-20T03:11:29Z")
> [@shijinn](#): > > of course, any gadget should be used as additional precaution on top of a parent’s natural paranoia and not as a replacement. Someone upthread suggested these kinds of incidents only occur 2 or 3 times per year in the USA. Given that is so very rare, I think it’s just impossible for anyone to predict it will never happen to them. You just can’t tell. Sad to say, it could happen to anyone. There is just no way to prevent it from happening to you. It is good to take extra precautions. But given the extreme rarity, it can still happen to anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-toddler-dies-after-mom-leaves-her-in-a-hot-car-for-45-minutes/543728/86 "2010-06-20T03:29:16Z")
> [@Joanie](#): > > Someone upthread suggested these kinds of incidents only occur 2 or 3 times per year in the USA. The article says 15-25 times a year in the US. So, not an epidemic, but not as rare as that. > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > So you’re now saying it should be legal? Anyone who wants to kill their baby need only leave it to die in their car and receive a get-out-of-jail-free card? No one has argued that, and the linked article describes long court cases used to determine whether criminal negligence occurred. Those case would not occur if we all agreed that it was a ‘get out of jail free card’. Do you genuinely believe that every single one of the parents in these articles wanted to kill their child, to be rid of it because it was too much trouble? Why then did some of them attempt to wrestle the gun from the police officer and commit suicide on the spot? ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-toddler-dies-after-mom-leaves-her-in-a-hot-car-for-45-minutes/543728/87 "2010-06-20T03:34:43Z")
Oh god, THAT article again. I remember the original thread in which that article came up. Horrifying yet mesmerizing at the same time. I couldn’t stop reading it even though I didn’t want to contemplate those kids and their last moments. Especially difficult was the incident in the article where the kid torn out her hair before she died. Things like that make me glad I don’t have kids. If I do, I’d probably put the car seat in the front, damn regulations or not, I’d rather they have the possibility of being killed quickly than being cooked alive With that said, Dio, I’m going to take a stance equally extreme as yours. I think it should be legal to put kids in cars for them to die in the sun. I think the possibility of that is extremely low, even lower than the accidental deaths. Therefore, I’m willing to give any parent the benefit of the doubt who have kids that die this way. I don’t want to prosecute because it wouldn’t teach them a lesson, they would be suffering more than anything the law could inflict on them. Until I believe otherwise, I’m unwilling to kick a person while they’re down. No justice comes from putting these parents in jail, they have suffered enough ---
**Author:** ![moejoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@moejoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moejoe)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-toddler-dies-after-mom-leaves-her-in-a-hot-car-for-45-minutes/543728/88 "2010-06-20T03:36:24Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > For those who object to punishment for this kind of negligence – are you saying that leaving a baby in a car until it dies should be legal? If not, the what are you saying? Is it a crime or isn’t it? no, it’s an accident. ---
**Author:** ![Joanie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@Joanie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joanie)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-toddler-dies-after-mom-leaves-her-in-a-hot-car-for-45-minutes/543728/89 "2010-06-20T04:09:34Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Oh god, THAT article again. Perhaps you are thinking of some other article? The article I listed is dated today - Sunday June 20, 2010. [http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1287621/Texas-toddler-dies-mother-leaves-hot-car-45-minutes.html](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1287621/Texas-toddler-dies-mother-leaves-hot-car-45-minutes.html) ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-toddler-dies-after-mom-leaves-her-in-a-hot-car-for-45-minutes/543728/90 "2010-06-20T04:12:27Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > Actually there was an article by some neuroscientists I read several months ago about why this happens all the time. (It’s shockingly common – about 30 deaths a year.) It has to do with how people get into such a routine that they do things without even thinking about them – take the same roads to work every day, park in the same spot, etc. It’s easy for the brain to forget that “today something different is happening”, especially when the infant is typically in a rear-facing seat, where she is invisible to the driver. I don’t understand how there could be a psychological explanation for something that only happens three dozen times a year. If it was really so common for people to operate on autopilot _to the point that they can forget a baby in the car_, we’d have a lot more dead babies. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-toddler-dies-after-mom-leaves-her-in-a-hot-car-for-45-minutes/543728/91 "2010-06-20T04:13:46Z")
> [@Joanie](#): > > Perhaps you are thinking of some other article? > > This article is dated today - Sunday June 20, 2010. Sorry, not the OP article, but the one to the Washington Post. That was the one linked in the previous thread. It’s a very hard read ---
**Author:** ![Joanie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@Joanie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joanie)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-toddler-dies-after-mom-leaves-her-in-a-hot-car-for-45-minutes/543728/92 "2010-06-20T04:22:07Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Sorry, not the OP article, but the one to the Washington Post. That was the one linked in the previous thread. It’s a very hard read Oops. Sorry. My mistake. Apologies. ---
**Author:** ![Joanie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@Joanie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joanie)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-toddler-dies-after-mom-leaves-her-in-a-hot-car-for-45-minutes/543728/93 "2010-06-20T04:31:31Z")
Do you think it is more likely that a child will die from exposure as a result of being left in a car or that an adult will die as a result of being struck by lightning? I have posted what I think is the answer in the following spoiler. [spoiler]I find it fascinating how we all have wildly different interpretations of how common or rare an event is. I would estimate that in the continental USA, about ten children die each year as a result of being left in a car and dying as a result of exposure. Is that number common? Or is it rare? I found a link to the number of people struck by lightning each year in the USA. As far as I can tell, only about 4 people per year are killed as a result of being struck by lightning. So, it seems to me the chances of a child dying as a result of being left in a car are farily close to those of an adult dying as a result of being struck by lightning. But, I’m not sure I interpreted the following table correctly. Perhaps someone could take a look and let me know if I’m very far off base? [http://www.lightningsafety.noaa.gov/medical.htm](http://www.lightningsafety.noaa.gov/medical.htm) [/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-toddler-dies-after-mom-leaves-her-in-a-hot-car-for-45-minutes/543728/94 "2010-06-20T04:54:50Z")
**Joanie** - Right at the top your NOAA articles states this: > [@](#): > > According to Storm Data, a National Weather Service publication, over the last 30 years the U.S. has averaged 58 reported lightning fatalities per year. Due to under reporting, the figures are more realistically at least 70 deaths per year. Only about 10% of people who are struck by lightning are killed, leaving 90% with various degrees of disability. So that’s about twice the number of hot car deaths. How did you get 4 deaths per year? StG ---
**Author:** ![Joanie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@Joanie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joanie)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-toddler-dies-after-mom-leaves-her-in-a-hot-car-for-45-minutes/543728/95 "2010-06-20T06:02:53Z")
1/750,000 and 300 million per year 4 times 750,000 is 3 million. Oops. Maybe its 400 deaths per year? ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-toddler-dies-after-mom-leaves-her-in-a-hot-car-for-45-minutes/543728/96 "2010-06-20T09:54:32Z")
It’s the pity that two of the posters to this thread didn’t have parents that left them in the car. For years. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-toddler-dies-after-mom-leaves-her-in-a-hot-car-for-45-minutes/543728/97 "2010-06-20T10:35:13Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Should it be legal to leave a baby in a car until it dies, yes or no? Should it be legal to run someone over and kill them with your car, yes or no? ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-toddler-dies-after-mom-leaves-her-in-a-hot-car-for-45-minutes/543728/98 "2010-06-20T10:43:57Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > Should it be legal to run someone over and kill them with your car, yes or no? Yes, the whole business of making it legal to leave a baby to die is irrelevant as it is covered by current legislation. It is a red herring. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-toddler-dies-after-mom-leaves-her-in-a-hot-car-for-45-minutes/543728/99 "2010-06-20T12:01:33Z")
> [@valleyofthedolls](#): > > I do, however, loathe it when the morality policy work themselves up into a feeding frenzy. This is not a Puritan issue or a victimless crime. Are you arguing for just throwing out the whole concept of a criminal justice system and right and wrong? Because I don’t see how you get to making killing your child through negligence legal, and opposition to its illegality some sort of prudish crusade, unless you are an outright anarchist. ---
**Author:** ![Caprese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9a28c/32.png) [@Caprese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caprese)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-toddler-dies-after-mom-leaves-her-in-a-hot-car-for-45-minutes/543728/100 "2010-06-20T12:10:05Z")
> [@Cicero](#): > > Yes, the whole business of making it legal to leave a baby to die is irrelevant **as it is covered by current legislation**. It is a red herring. > [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > This is not a Puritan issue or a victimless crime. Are you arguing for just throwing out the whole concept of a criminal justice system and right and wrong? Because I don’t see how you get to making killing your child through negligence legal, and opposition to its illegality some sort of prudish crusade, unless you are an outright anarchist. See above. It is certainly not a victimless crime. There is plenty of suffering involved. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-toddler-dies-after-mom-leaves-her-in-a-hot-car-for-45-minutes/543728.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/texas-toddler-dies-after-mom-leaves-her-in-a-hot-car-for-45-minutes/543728.md?page=6)