# Text of Newsom's 28th Amendment proposal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 19, 2023, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/text-of-newsoms-28th-amendment-proposal/987260 "2023-07-19T15:28:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/text-of-newsoms-28th-amendment-proposal/987260/41 "2023-07-20T16:53:26Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > No constitutional amendment ever can be the first step to anything. To get an amendment, you need the support of a whole lot of people. Getting that support is the first step (and, probably, the second, third, and tenth steps). Which shows why Newsom’s idea is not a “stunt.” He’s trying to move the conversation forward. Sure, it looks politically impossible at this time (and it does) but so did gay marriage 20 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/text-of-newsoms-28th-amendment-proposal/987260/42 "2023-07-20T16:56:50Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Repeal of the Second Amendment can’t be the first step. No constitutional amendment ever can be the first step to anything. To get an amendment, you need the support of a whole lot of people. Getting that support is the first step (and, probably, the second, third, and tenth steps). > [@Chronos](#): > > Not even that. There’s lots that the legislature could do in pursuit of what I said, without falling into even the penumbras of the Second Amendment. Okay, I’m not clear on what you’re saying. Are you saying the first step is building public support for gun control or are you saying the first step is enacting gun control laws that fall within the limitations of the Second Amendment? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/text-of-newsoms-28th-amendment-proposal/987260/43 "2023-07-20T17:02:47Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Which shows why Newsom’s idea is not a “stunt.” He’s trying to move the conversation forward. Sure, it looks politically impossible at this time (and it does) but so did gay marriage 20 years ago. Maybe we disagree on the meaning of calling this a stunt. I feel proposing this amendment is a stunt because I don’t see any realistic possibility that the amendment will be enacted. If it’s purpose is to get people talking about gun control then it’s a stunt. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/text-of-newsoms-28th-amendment-proposal/987260/44 "2023-07-20T17:09:56Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Maybe we disagree on the meaning of calling this a stunt. Yeah, I guess it is a stunt, but without any pejorative meaning > Political stunt, a type of publicity stunt intended to sway public opinion on a political issue. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/text-of-newsoms-28th-amendment-proposal/987260/45 "2023-07-20T17:19:18Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Okay, I’m not clear on what you’re saying. Are you saying the first step is building public support for gun control or are you saying the first step is enacting gun control laws that fall within the limitations of the Second Amendment? I’m saying that one of the first steps (before the step of an amendment, certainly) is legislation that will help to build public support for gun control. For instance, we could allow the governmental agencies that study causes of death to study firearm-related causes of death. That’s not, in itself, a gun control measure, but it could help move the needle of public opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/text-of-newsoms-28th-amendment-proposal/987260/46 "2023-07-20T17:27:03Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > For instance, we could allow the governmental agencies that study causes of death to study firearm-related causes of death. And yet, even that would ignite howls of protest from the right, along with lawsuits that might very well be upheld by this SCOTUS. Hence the need to amend the constitution, which can’t be done without baby steps like this, which can’t be done without amending the consti … (_sighs in despair_) ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/text-of-newsoms-28th-amendment-proposal/987260/47 "2023-07-21T23:41:53Z")
Yeah – the more hardcore pro-gun faction in America in this the year AD 2023 leans in the direction that they want “shall not be infringed” to mean that **any** federal limitation even _the existence of BATF itself_ is unconstitutional, and that no state or locality can restrict public carry in any way (so-called “constitutional carry” which is something that never existed). Even Scalia’s own _Heller_ language is worthless to them. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2023, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/text-of-newsoms-28th-amendment-proposal/987260/48 "2023-07-27T20:55:59Z")
Amending the Constitution on this issue is practically impossible. You’d need to get a huge supermajority of the voters to support it. The way to get meaningful gun control is to elect Presidents who will appoint Supreme Court Justices who will rule that “well regulated” means that the government can regulate gun ownership however it pleases, without restriction. Is that consistent with the language of the text or the intent of the Framers? No, but so what? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/text-of-newsoms-28th-amendment-proposal/987260/49 "2023-07-28T01:42:40Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > To be fair, prohibition was to stop people from enjoying alcohol. And dying of it. Newsoms law wont do much. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I feel the 2nd Amendment is the equivalent of the 18th Amendment. It’s a constitutional block that prevents any legislation on the issue of gun control. No. Lots of states have laws on gun control, and Biden recently rammed thru a bill. > [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Reads to me like it’s largely just pushing the de facto reality of today (other than the age of purchase) up into the Constitution. Right, several states- such as CA- already have laws like that. They still have plenty of murders. But those are not bad ideas, and may prevent some, > [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > I read it more as amend the constitution in an effort to SCOTUS-proof even the most reasonable gun control policies. Yep. > [@pkbites](#): > > Only about 3% of all firearm homicides involve so called “Assault weapons” yet that is what everyone squawks about. Less actually- 3% includes ALL rifles. My WAG it is about 2% > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Let’s call it the first legislative step. Why not repeal the 1st also? Religions abuse it, along with hate groups. > [@Chronos](#): > > For instance, we could allow the governmental agencies that study causes of death to study firearm-related causes of death. They already can. They just cant push for gun control, like the highly biased CDC attempt quite some time ago. As you can see above the FBI does it annually. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/text-of-newsoms-28th-amendment-proposal/987260/50 "2023-07-28T07:23:12Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Why not repeal the 1st also? Religions abuse it, along with hate groups. Because it serves a vital purpose, unlike the second, which is just an embarrassment. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/text-of-newsoms-28th-amendment-proposal/987260/51 "2023-07-28T08:26:21Z")
Just curious, when would you say it became an embarrassment? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/text-of-newsoms-28th-amendment-proposal/987260/52 "2023-07-28T08:33:11Z")
Probably the first time someone used a gun to murder a bunch of children in a school, and we didn’t do anything about it because “my gun rights!” ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/text-of-newsoms-28th-amendment-proposal/987260/53 "2023-07-28T08:53:08Z")
So the 1800’s? ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/text-of-newsoms-28th-amendment-proposal/987260/54 "2023-07-28T08:57:12Z")
im thinking after the next ca gov election which is going to be his last term due to limits he’s getting ready for the senate and a prez run … ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/text-of-newsoms-28th-amendment-proposal/987260/55 "2023-07-28T15:03:42Z")
The first real mass shooting at a school was in 1966. > **[University of Texas tower shooting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Texas_tower_shooting)** > > The University of Texas tower shooting was an act of mass murder which occurred on August 1, 1966, at the University of Texas at Austin. The perpetrator, 25-year-old Marine veteran Charles Whitman, indiscriminately fired at members of the public both within the Main Building tower and from the tower's observation deck. He shot and killed 15 people, including an unborn child, and injured 31 others before he was killed by two Austin Police Department officers approximately 96 minutes after first ... Though it was at a university, so I don’t think that qualifies as “children”. There _were_ a couple of incidents at schools at the very end of the 1800s where 4-6 people were killed, but those were along the lines of shootouts between multiple people at a high school. Victims in both cases were a mix of adults and older high school students. The first incident I see that qualifies as “someone using a gun to murder a bunch of children in a school” wasn’t until 1998. 2 students murdered 4 other students and a teacher at a middle school. > **[1998 Westside Middle School shooting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_Westside_Middle_School_shooting)** > > On March 24, 1998, a school shooting occurred at Westside Middle School in unincorporated Craighead County, Arkansas near the city of Jonesboro. Perpetrators Mitchell Johnson, 13, and Andrew Golden, 11, fatally shot four students and a teacher with multiple weapons, and both were arrested when they attempted to flee the scene. Ten others were wounded. Golden and Johnson were convicted of five murders and ten assaults, and were imprisoned until each turned 21 years of age. After the 1992 Lindhu A year later Columbine happened, and then they became more and more common until it’s now an almost regular thing. So not only is this a relatively recent phenomenon, it’s almost entirely a 21st century phenomenon. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/text-of-newsoms-28th-amendment-proposal/987260/56 "2023-07-28T15:05:44Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > So not only is this a relatively recent phenomenon, it’s almost entirely a 21st century phenomenon. I was coming to post this as well. > **[List of school shootings in the United States (before 2000)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States_(before_2000))** > > This chronological list of school shootings in the United States before the year 2000 includes any school shootings that occurred at a K-12 public or private school, as well as at colleges and universities, and on school buses. Excluded from this list are the following: > Shooting by school staff, where the only victims are other employees, are covered at workplace killings. This list does not include the 1970 Kent State shootings, or bombings such as the Bath School disaster. > 1 incident. > 3 i... ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/text-of-newsoms-28th-amendment-proposal/987260/57 "2023-07-28T15:58:20Z")
That was the list I was using, funny enough. 😆 I interpreted “bunch of children” to mean “more than two”. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/text-of-newsoms-28th-amendment-proposal/987260/58 "2023-07-28T20:53:41Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Just curious, when would you say it became an embarrassment? I don’t know if embarrassment is the word I’d use but I’d say the meaning of a right to own a fire-arm is a lot different now than it was back in 1789 when a fire-arm meant a flintlock. Funny how you never see people who claim to believe in originalism apply that principle to the Second Amendment. Bring guns into the debate and suddenly conservatives turn into living constitutionalists. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/text-of-newsoms-28th-amendment-proposal/987260/59 "2023-07-28T21:32:53Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Because it serves a vital purpose, unlike the second, which is just an embarrassment. Thats just your opinion. > [@Miller](#): > > Probably the first time someone used a gun to murder a bunch of children in a school, and we didn’t do anything about it because “my gun rights!” We didnt arrest and prosecute the killer? Studies have shown the school shooting are influenced heavily by media coverage. Thus, we muzzle the media and less school shootings. Simple. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I don’t know if embarrassment is the word I’d use but I’d say the meaning of a right to own a fire-arm is a lot different now than it was back in 1789 when a fire-arm meant a flintlock. And back then “Freedom of thew press” meant an old school hand cranked press. Not the radio, TV or internet. Fox news, and conservative talk radio have done a LOT to spread hate and lies. Let’s shut them down. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/text-of-newsoms-28th-amendment-proposal/987260/60 "2023-07-28T21:33:01Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Just curious, when would you say it became an embarrassment? You probably meant this as some kind of gotcha question, but there’s a very simple answer - 2008. Every court in this nation’s history repeatedly held that the 2nd amendment did not protect individual gun rights, until _Heller_ invented new “rights” from whole cloth. > **[How the NRA Rewrote the Second Amendment](https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/how-nra-rewrote-second-amendment)** > > The Founders never intended to create an unregulated individual right to a gun. Today, millions believe they did. Here’s how it happened. > From 1888, when law review articles first were indexed, through 1959, every single one on the Second Amendment concluded it did not guarantee an individual right to a gun. The first to argue otherwise, written by a William and Mary law student named Stuart R. Hays, appeared in 1960. He began by citing an article in the NRA’s American Rifleman magazine and argued that the amendment enforced a “right of revolution,” of which the Southern states availed themselves during what the author called “The War Between the States.” > If one delves into the claims these scholars were making, a startling number of them crumble. Historian Jack Rakove, whose Pulitzer-Prize winning book Original Meanings explored the founders’ myriad views, notes, “It is one thing to ransack the sources for a set of useful quotations, another to weigh their interpretive authority. … There are, in fact, only a handful of sources from the period of constitutional formation that bear directly on the questions that lie at the heart of our current controversies about the regulation of privately owned firearms. If Americans has indeed been concerned with the impact of the Constitution on this right … the proponents of individual right theory would not have to recycle the same handful of references … or to rip promising snippets of quotations from the texts and speeches in which they are embedded.” > In the end, it was neither the NRA nor the Bush administration that pressed the Supreme Court to reverse its centuries-old approach, but a small group of libertarian lawyers who believed other gun advocates were too timid. They targeted a gun law passed by the local government in Washington, D.C., in 1976—perhaps the nation’s strictest—that barred individuals from keeping a loaded handgun at home without a trigger lock. They recruited an appealing plaintiff: Dick Heller, a security guard at the Thurgood Marshall Federal Judiciary Building, who wanted to bring his work revolver home to his high-crime neighborhood. The NRA worried it lacked the five votes necessary to win. The organization tried to sideswipe the effort, filing what Heller’s lawyers called “sham litigation” to give courts an excuse to avoid a constitutional ruling. But the momentum that the NRA itself had set in motion proved unstoppable, and the big case made its way to the Supreme Court. > On June 26, 2008, the Supreme Court ruled 5–4 that the Second Amendment guarantees a right to own a weapon “in common use” to protect “hearth and home.” Scalia wrote the opinion, which he later called the “vindication” of his judicial philosophy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/text-of-newsoms-28th-amendment-proposal/987260.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/text-of-newsoms-28th-amendment-proposal/987260.md?page=4)