# Text of Newsom's 28th Amendment proposal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 19, 2023, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/text-of-newsoms-28th-amendment-proposal/987260 "2023-07-19T15:28:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2023, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/text-of-newsoms-28th-amendment-proposal/987260/81 "2023-07-31T16:39:50Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Oh boo hoo, we are NOT a collection of independent states, that is a legal fiction and has been for over 200 years. Or at least 150. There was a big debate – with bullets – about that. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2023, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/text-of-newsoms-28th-amendment-proposal/987260/82 "2023-07-31T16:40:52Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > There was a big debate – with bullets – about that. Eh, some of the states tried to _become_ independent, but failed. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2023, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/text-of-newsoms-28th-amendment-proposal/987260/83 "2023-07-31T17:25:10Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > Or at least 150. There was a big debate – with bullets – about that. Despite the rhetoric that some traitors used to try and justify their treason, the US was De Facto one country rather than a collection of independent states long before the Civil War. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2023, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/text-of-newsoms-28th-amendment-proposal/987260/84 "2023-07-31T18:14:19Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > That’s not how it works. > > There have been successful attempts to limit federal gun control legislation by citing the 10th Amendment, which says that powers not given to the federal government in the US Constitution are reserved for the states. My point is that you can’t claim you support state rights in a situation where state rights are used to defend gun ownership if you don’t support state rights in a situation where state rights are used to oppose gun ownership. If that’s your position then you’re not in favor of states rights; you’re in favor of gun ownership. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2023, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/text-of-newsoms-28th-amendment-proposal/987260/85 "2023-07-31T18:22:56Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > If that’s your position then you’re not in favor of states rights; you’re in favor of gun ownership. That’s fair. Though I don’t think that has anything to do with the 10th Amendment specifically, that is a very true general statement. If you support Texas allowing anyone over 21 to carry a holstered gun either openly or concealed without a permit, you should also support Massachusetts requiring a license to own or carry or even transport any gun, ammo, or ammo feeding device, if the issue you care about is states’ rights. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2023, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/text-of-newsoms-28th-amendment-proposal/987260/86 "2023-07-31T20:37:46Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > There is wiggle room between banning guns and putting restrictions on gun ownership, and some states have used that to have more restrictive laws (again, without going so far as to outright ban guns). Yes. Just like there is wiggle room in the right to free speech. (No kiddie porn, no copyright stealing, etc etc) And three cities (I am calling Wash DC a city for this) did try to ban guns, which led to Heller. > [@Atamasama](#): > > I’d strongly support such an amendment, but I don’t think we can even come close to passing it. I have no major issues with it, but I agree- cant be passed. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/text-of-newsoms-28th-amendment-proposal/987260/87 "2023-08-01T04:15:56Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > And three cities (I am calling Wash DC a city for this) did try to ban guns, which led to Heller. No, they did not. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/text-of-newsoms-28th-amendment-proposal/987260/88 "2023-08-01T04:39:33Z")
At least 2 cities in Wisconsin attempted to: Milwaukee and Madison. It was one of the precursors to the states firearms preemption law. ---
**Author:** ![Digger11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@Digger11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digger11)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/text-of-newsoms-28th-amendment-proposal/987260/89 "2023-08-01T04:46:51Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Oh boo hoo, we are NOT a collection of independent states, that is a legal fiction and has been for over 200 years. “Independent” is NOT the same thing as “having a significant amount of power.” Nobody is saying that the states are independent. However, they DO have a large amount of sovereignty. That is **why** they are able to pass laws that the federal government objects to, among other things, and also why the governors are the commanders-in-chief of the National Guard when it is not federalized. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/text-of-newsoms-28th-amendment-proposal/987260/90 "2023-08-01T20:34:40Z")
> **[The high court struck down D.C.’s gun ban eight years ago, but the fight...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/the-high-court-struck-down-dcs-gun-ban-eight-years-ago-but-the-fight-continues/2016/09/13/070e6786-7054-11e6-8365-b19e428a975e_story.html)** > > Appeals court considers who can carry a firearm on the streets of the nation’s capital. > **[Chicago Enacts New Firearm Law — Again | Cheronis, Parente & Levitt LLC |...](https://www.cheronislaw.com/articles/chicago-enacts-new-firearm-law-again/)** > > News article Chicago Enacts New Firearms Law _Chicago lawmakers outlawed the sale and possession of handguns in 1982, and the ban remained in place for nearly three decades before it was overturned by the U.S. Supreme Court in 2010. The Court ruled that the ban violated the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which guarantees the right to keep and bear arms._ [San Francisco Proposition H (2005) - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_Proposition_H_(2005)#:~:text=Proposition%20H%20was%20a%20local,a%20no%20vote%20of%2089%2C856). **Proposition H** was a local ordinance on the November 8, 2005 ballot in [San Francisco](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco), [California](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California), which gained national attention for its banning of most [firearms](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms) within the city. The measure passed with a yes vote of 123,033 to a no vote of 89,856. The proposition was later struck down in court. What do you think Heller was about then? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/text-of-newsoms-28th-amendment-proposal/987260/91 "2023-08-01T20:48:49Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > What do you think Heller was about then? Heller was about a court inventing a right that had never been recognized by any court prior out of whole cloth, as cited above. It’s the reason that the 2nd Amendment became an embarrassment in 2008. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/text-of-newsoms-28th-amendment-proposal/987260/92 "2023-08-01T22:04:53Z")
Sounds like it was about overturning the will of the people as expressed through the ballot box. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2023, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/text-of-newsoms-28th-amendment-proposal/987260/93 "2023-08-02T01:05:21Z")
National Polls show that the people do not want guns bans, but they do want more gun control. And Heller overturned just the Wash DC ban, ehich was not passed by the people. And if we let individual towns go against the constitution, you know some Red state town is gonna ban Gay marriage… and more. Do you want that? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2023, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/text-of-newsoms-28th-amendment-proposal/987260/94 "2023-08-02T01:08:04Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > National Polls show that the people do not want guns bans… I’m not talking about national polls, I’m talking about the San Francisco election that you just posted about. > [@DrDeth](#): > > And if we let individual towns go against the constitution, you know some Red state town is gonna ban Gay marriage… and more. Do you want that? Which is why gun ownership shouldn’t be in the constitution. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2023, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/text-of-newsoms-28th-amendment-proposal/987260/95 "2023-08-02T01:12:08Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I’m not talking about national polls, I’m talking about the San Francisco election that you just posted about. Which was thrown out by the CA State Supreme Ct as Stae law clearly prohibits municipalities etc from making their own gun laws. Gun laws have to be state wide in CA. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2023, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/text-of-newsoms-28th-amendment-proposal/987260/96 "2023-08-02T01:13:54Z")
Then why did you bring it up in a thread about constitutional gun rights and the Heller decision? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2023, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/text-of-newsoms-28th-amendment-proposal/987260/97 "2023-08-02T02:44:06Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > What do you think Heller was about then? I think the Heller decision overturned a Washington DC law which placed a lot of restrictions on guns, including banning many broad categories of guns. But the [Firearms Control Regulations Act of 1975](https://ia800901.us.archive.org/29/items/firearmscontrol00colugoog/firearmscontrol00colugoog.pdf) (which was the law the court overturned) did not ban all guns. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2023, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/text-of-newsoms-28th-amendment-proposal/987260/98 "2023-08-02T07:20:57Z")
I suspect it was to refute this claim. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > No, they did not. It was showing that yes, a few cities tried to ban guns. Though I’m not sure how direct the line is between all of those attempts and Heller. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2023, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/text-of-newsoms-28th-amendment-proposal/987260/99 "2023-08-02T14:07:22Z")
There’s a difference between a city banning automatic rifles and a city banning guns. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2023, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/text-of-newsoms-28th-amendment-proposal/987260/100 "2023-08-02T16:37:03Z")
BTW, the issue directly at hand in _Heller_ was not automatics or “asault weapons”, it was handguns, and that DC’s level of control over those was, for virtually all of its residents, a constructive ban (which I am sure the large number of federal officials who live and work in DC did not mind at all). Scalia himself stated in the written opinion that even with this ruling DC can still require licensing and registration and limit where you may carry what. However the twist (and what gets people on both sides rather excited) was that to get there, the _explicit_ interpretation was put down on paper that there is an individual right to arms for private self defense under the federal constitution. Of course 15 years later the RW ignores Scalia and insist that the right should mean total nonrestriction. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/text-of-newsoms-28th-amendment-proposal/987260.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/text-of-newsoms-28th-amendment-proposal/987260.md?page=6)