# Textbooks and required crapware **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 28, 2013, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/textbooks-and-required-crapware/659520 "2013-05-28T04:16:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2013, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/textbooks-and-required-crapware/659520/61 "2013-06-09T17:18:03Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > Your “excellent reason” for interfering with a student’s preferred method of learning is the dangers of Facebook? Please stay out of the classroom. > [@](#): > > Philosophy professor Paul Thagard of the University of Waterloo … has banned laptops and cellphones for the past two years because he said brain research shows even screen-savvy millennials can’t multi-task as well as they think they can. > > “The cognitive effects of laptop distraction on learning are disastrous. It goes against everything we know about how the brain works and the number of things we can hold in our mind at once,” said Thagard, director of Waterloo’s cognitive science program. > > He has had grad students spy on his undergrads’ screens from the back row, only to find just 10 to 20 per cent were open on class notes. The rest were on Facebook, Jersey Shore reruns, even sports video games. > > “Since I banned laptops in class, I get twice as many compliments from students as complaints, because they say it’s less distracting for them. And I no longer face a wall of screens instead of students.” From this article: [York University prof enlists student snitches to battle digital distraction](http://www.thestar.com/yourtoronto/education/2012/11/02/york_university_prof_enlists_student_snitches_to_battle_digital_distraction.html) > [@](#): > > First, it’s college, not elementary school. It’s not the professor’s job to make sure a student is paying attention. If she is behaving in a way that interferes with the other students, then deal with the real problem, not a pretend one. But a professor may be held responsible if a large number of his/her students do poorly and don’t learn what they’re supposed to learn. > [@](#): > > Third, again, this is college, not elementary school, so we’re definitely not talking about instructors who are well-versed in pedagogy. Rather than trying to be clever and dictating how students process classroom material, maybe let the students do what works for them. Maybe they’re not “trying to be clever”; maybe they’re reacting against what has been a problem in their previous classes. I’m not personally supporting a ban on laptops in classrooms, but I do understand why some professors might have one. And I’d be interested in cites on the issue from someone who _is_ “well-versed in pedagogy” (or androgogy). ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2013, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/textbooks-and-required-crapware/659520/62 "2013-06-09T22:10:38Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > Your “excellent reason” for interfering with a student’s preferred method of learning is the dangers of Facebook? Please stay out of the classroom. > > First, it’s college, not elementary school. It’s not the professor’s job to make sure a student is paying attention. If she is behaving in a way that interferes with the other students, then deal with the real problem, not a pretend one. > Second, typing is faster than writing. Policies like this cause students to spend more time taking notes and less time listening, thinking of questions, etc. > Third, again, this is college, not elementary school, so we’re definitely not talking about instructors who are well-versed in pedagogy. Rather than trying to be clever and dictating how students process classroom material, maybe let the students do what works for them. I agree 100%. I am an adult and paying for the service. As long as I’m not bothering anyone else, I should be able to do whatever I want. Plus, as you said, the professor is actually thwarting my learning process because I can type faster than writing and I have a permanent digital copy of my notes. And if I do check FB or my email while the professor is talking, then that is his fault for giving a boring lecture that doesn’t keep me captivated, not mine. ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/textbooks-and-required-crapware/659520/63 "2013-06-10T21:11:44Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > I got my BA in 2008. 🙂 So I missed it by that much. There was one semester where the school bookstore didn’t even know what book the professor selected two weeks before classes started. Pretty common in grad school, I last went in 2008 also. My university had the requirement that all classes had to have a mandatory official “text” of some sort. Professors could supplement, but not exclusively with their own content. So, the Nobel-winning prof on the cutting edge of the material being presented? Sorry, not qualified to set the curriculum. And because of anti-kickback complaints, a professor could not use their own published text either :rolleyes: So we got a perfect storm of the following: 1. Prof assigns “required” text on the syllabus that doesn’t get used in class 2. Student grapevine develops of .pdf sharing of actual class materials and, for a short spell, genuinely efficient learning happens 3. Administration wonders why bookstore orders of exclusive editions don’t match enrollment numbers 4. Professors slapped by administration for not “testing to the text” 5. Professors irritated at wasting class sessions testing off-plan required material set by non-Nobel winning administrators. 6. Professors mitigate by selecting cheapest option of irrelevant text to _not_ get used in class, or just test to the first chapter 🙂 7. Return to step 1. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/textbooks-and-required-crapware/659520/64 "2013-08-15T15:30:58Z")
Update of sorts: I just recently found out that Pearson Publiishing (yeah, I’m naming names) has a site that is supposed to go along with the textbook, with things like code samples. Only, my account was never set UP with that access like it was supposed to be. I emailed them about it - and got yet another incoherent response that didn’t answer the question I asked (the English was even worse than what I posted upthread). I’m taking the second semester of the class, starting next week, partly because it uses the same book and might as well get it out of the way while I can use the same resources. Apparently they’ve managed to come out with TWO NEW VERSIONS of the same book in the interim (they are up to version 7 now) so it’d be just a matter of time. Honestly, Java has not changed that much in 2 years. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![tripthicket](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripthicket/32/297_2.png) [@tripthicket](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tripthicket)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/textbooks-and-required-crapware/659520/65 "2013-08-15T18:04:14Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > I took an undergrad class from a guy that had co-written the book with another professor at the school. Students were told to read everything up to a certain point in preparation for a test. He tested on material that was nowhere in the book except the preface. Was this then a cheat, intended or otherwise? Was the preface mentioned as included in the indicated reading, implied, or not addressed? Not all academic types I’ve encountered seemed to have grasped the concept of specificity of instruction. I’m just wondering here if he was deliberately or obliviously misleading. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/textbooks-and-required-crapware/659520/66 "2013-08-15T19:31:01Z")
I can kinda see the need for new textbooks in more dynamic subjects like science and law–stuff changes and you need to keep up. But…well, French (especially)? And what really has changed significantly in algebra, geometry, and calculus in the last century? And literature? That doesn’t change. Never cared for the book racket in college–I can’t imagine having to do it today. Can you even get through college without owning a computer? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/textbooks-and-required-crapware/659520/67 "2013-08-15T19:42:57Z")
> [@The Great Sun Jester](#): > > And what really has changed significantly in algebra, geometry, and calculus in the last century? Quite a lot, actually, if you include applications, pedagogy, and use of technology. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/textbooks-and-required-crapware/659520/68 "2013-08-15T19:44:46Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Quite a lot, actually, if you include applications, pedagogy, and use of technology. Bah!..trifling details. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/textbooks-and-required-crapware/659520/69 "2013-08-15T19:54:52Z")
It’s a market thing; students don’t have any alternative, so there’s no motivation for them to improve their products to compete, and if the professors aren’t particularly diligent about selecting the best ones, they just get away with it. In grad school, we got lucky in that some of the texts we had to read were actual business books that we could get from Amazon or any bookstore. Many though, were the usual textbooks written by professors with the intent of having maybe a couple thousand sold to students each year, and were priced appropriately high. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/textbooks-and-required-crapware/659520/70 "2013-08-15T20:18:16Z")
I just want to say, people using laptops in class do bother me, as a fellow student. Last term I took a class that was 20% discussion. I could see other classmates’ laptops on FB and stuff and it really hindered the discussions. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/textbooks-and-required-crapware/659520/71 "2013-08-15T20:31:49Z")
Do you know how the prices you’re all quoting compare with those of reference books in other countries? Because those figures seem ludicrously high to me and a quick search (possibly a poor search) seemed to show that their price in France was at most in the € 60-70 range (and generally under € 50). Even taking into account a higher cost of living we’re a very long way from $150-300 and it looks like a massive ripp-off. I guess a better comparison could be Canada, for instance. Especially since I suspect that the same books are probably used in both countries. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/textbooks-and-required-crapware/659520/72 "2013-08-16T16:41:26Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I just want to say, people using laptops in class do bother me, as a fellow student. Last term I took a class that was 20% discussion. I could see other classmates’ laptops on FB and stuff and it really hindered the discussions. That’s a serious concern, actually. [(warning, PDF)](http://www.mcla.edu/Academics/uploads/textWidget/3424.00018/documents/laptop_use_in_the_classroom.pdf) > [@The Great Sun Jester](#): > > Can you even get through college without owning a computer? These days, no, not really. If nothing else, school announcements are sent out that way, the teachers communicate with the students that way, a lot of admin stuff must be done via computer, etc. I do believe that a lot of the coursework that requires computer usage is kind of a “cuzIcan” chicken-or-egg thing. They’ll put, say, those videos on the textbook’s website because they can, then you HAVE to use the website so why not make all the homework web-based, etc. There was nothing whatsoever in my French class that had to be done online (though the videos were nice). But because it was there, the professor assigned homework using the tool. And the homework SUCKED. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/textbooks-and-required-crapware/659520/73 "2013-08-16T17:38:53Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I just want to say, people using laptops in class do bother me, as a fellow student. Last term I took a class that was 20% discussion. I could see other classmates’ laptops on FB and stuff and it really hindered the discussions. I specifically didn’t buy a laptop for graduate school because I knew I’d screw around and IM with classmates instead of pay attention. Instead, I did it the old-school way with a pen and notebook. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/textbooks-and-required-crapware/659520.md?page=3)