# Th shrtst nglsh sntnc **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [September 5, 2014, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/th-shrtst-nglsh-sntnc/697559 "2014-09-05T05:55:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/th-shrtst-nglsh-sntnc/697559/21 "2014-09-05T20:15:46Z")
> [@74westy](#): > > Bullshit! > > It’s not nitpicking at all. If the definition relies on a specialized sense of the word “punctuated” I need to know what that is or I can’t be blamed for interpreting a word the way it is usually used. But taking a sentence totally out of context is a completely fair criticism. Got it. ---
**Author:** ![kk\_fusion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kk_fusion/32/15276_2.png) [@kk\_fusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kk_fusion)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/th-shrtst-nglsh-sntnc/697559/22 "2014-09-05T21:00:09Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Just to show that I’m not alone in my understanding, I’ll quote an example from the Wikipedia article on [Sentence (linguistics)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentence_%28linguistics%29): > > None of those three sentences contains a finite verb, and the first is just “London.” I’m not even sure what verb you’d add to “London” to complete the thought contained there. That’s like saying a line from the football chart is a sentence. Sure it contains information, but that’s not the point. A sentence is a _syntactic_ unit, not a semantic one. The problem is, any definition of “syntax” you’re going to dig up will sooner or later invoke the concept of a “sentence”. You have to hammer it down somewhere, and CL does it the way I described. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/th-shrtst-nglsh-sntnc/697559/23 "2014-09-05T21:41:42Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > Ummm, he certainly does rebut the objection, with his next “shortest sentence”: “I.” [with an implied “do.”] > > This column was not meant as a grammar text, but as a light-hearted refutation of the notion that “I am” is the shortest English sentence. I mean, he doesn’t rebut with an actual explanation that an English imperative sentence can be a complete sentence with a verb that is only implied. His “I” example is somewhat analogous to answering a yes/no question with the single word “Yes” or “No”. Is that a sentence? In fact, Cecil accepted, earlier in the same column, the objection that a sentence must have a predicate. ETA: So. Can “I.” be a complete sentence after all, with the implied verb “do”? At this point, we might also mention, just for grins, the shortest possible English poem (that actually rhymes): Caesar’s Remonstrance to Brutus [indent]U 2?[/indent] ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/th-shrtst-nglsh-sntnc/697559/24 "2014-09-05T21:50:48Z")
> [@kk\_fusion](#): > > From a computational-linguistic view, the (finite) verb is the kernel (the _predicate_) of a sentence. No verb, no sentence. A verb also comes with some slots (vacancies) that need to be filled with a subject or object to make the sentence grammatical. That number may however be zero, as in some imperative forms. > > None of this is limited to English by the way, as the concepts of verbs, subjects, and objects are one of the few things that all known natural languages have in common. And also, English is a bit unusual in the way imperatives are formed. In some other languages (I am under the impression), it is rather regular – imperatives can be in the first, second, or third person, created with more-or-less normal style verb conjugations. In English, the most common (second person singular or possibly plural) imperative is “You [verb]”, where “You” is usually implied. There is also a common first person plural imperative, expressed with the words “Let us”, as in “Let’s eat!”. That’s a rather weird way to create a verb form. It could also be done in the third person (singular or plural), as in “Let them eat cake!” ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/th-shrtst-nglsh-sntnc/697559/25 "2014-09-05T23:04:42Z")
“O?” won’t do. “O” and “oh” aren’t the same word. And, yes, “let” is the usual way to translate non-2nd-person imperatives into English. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/th-shrtst-nglsh-sntnc/697559/26 "2014-09-05T23:13:56Z")
When Hugo published Les Misérables, he was on holiday. After not hearing anything about its reception for a few days, Hugo sent a telegram to his publisher, reading, simply: ? The publisher replied: ! Complete nonsense, of course, though it’s repeated everywhere. The fact that everyone immediately understands the joke - and one reputed to have originated in France - indicates that language, not just English, is infinitely flexible. (So does the use of infinitely in the previous sentence.) Any complete grammar has to accommodate these variations. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2014, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/th-shrtst-nglsh-sntnc/697559/27 "2014-09-06T00:30:27Z")
According the grammatical rules I learned in 5th grade, “No” doesn’t qualify, but “Go” and in context “I”, do qualify. But what about the last example, the one with zero letters? ! Is that a sentence, a sentence fragment or neither? What is it? ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2014, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/th-shrtst-nglsh-sntnc/697559/28 "2014-09-06T00:47:30Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > But taking a sentence totally out of context is a completely fair criticism. Got it. Descriptivists! ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2014, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/th-shrtst-nglsh-sntnc/697559/29 "2014-09-06T00:56:17Z")
> [@74westy](#): > > Descriptivists! You rang? ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2014, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/th-shrtst-nglsh-sntnc/697559/30 "2014-09-06T01:34:15Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > You rang? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Powers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Powers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Powers)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/th-shrtst-nglsh-sntnc/697559/31 "2014-09-07T13:30:54Z")
> [@John\_W.Kennedy](#): > > “O?” won’t do. “O” and “oh” aren’t the same word. Very close, though. > **[O vs. Oh - Usage, Meaning & Examples](https://grammarist.com/usage/o-oh/)** > > O: used in classical address to invoke a person or thing. Oh: a versatile interjection expressing pain, realization, hesitation, or sorrow. It would appear that “Oh” could be used wherever “O” is, but not the other way around. Powers &8^] ---
**Author:** ![Blackfaer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@Blackfaer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackfaer)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/th-shrtst-nglsh-sntnc/697559/32 "2014-09-10T03:04:47Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > When Hugo published Les Misérables, he was on holiday. After not hearing anything about its reception for a few days, Hugo sent a telegram to his publisher, reading, simply: > > ? > > The publisher replied: > > ! > > Complete nonsense, of course, though it’s repeated everywhere. The fact that everyone immediately understands the joke - and one reputed to have originated in France - indicates that language, not just English, is infinitely flexible. I first heard this attributed to Mark Twain and Huckleberry Finn. I’ve heard it for a couple of different books over the years. I’d be curious as to the origins of the joke, whether anyone actually did any such reply - telegrams being charged by the word, it seems like it could have actually happened… As to the shortest sentence, my vote is with (implied you, imperative) Go! I like the “I” answer, with the implied ‘am’ or ‘did’ or whatever, but speaking as just a layman in this field, to me it seems that an implied 2nd person imperative is pretty standard in English, whereas a reply of “I” in response to “Who?” is a very non-standard usage. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/th-shrtst-nglsh-sntnc/697559/33 "2014-09-10T03:54:23Z")
It is most certainly not “non-standard”. It is, in present-day English, somewhat uncommon. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/th-shrtst-nglsh-sntnc/697559.md?page=1)