# Thaksin et al are significantly more evil than Abhisit et al
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thaksin-et-al-are-significantly-more-evil-than-abhisit-et-al/540061
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [May 19, 2010, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thaksin-et-al-are-significantly-more-evil-than-abhisit-et-al/540061 "2010-05-19T22:15:03Z")
**Posts on this page:** 9
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)
#### Post date: [May 19, 2010, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thaksin-et-al-are-significantly-more-evil-than-abhisit-et-al/540061/1 "2010-05-19T22:15:03Z")
There has been so much misinformation in the foreign press about Thai politics and the present crisis. Much reporting implied that the red-shirt terrorists were popular democrats fighting an authoritarian elite. I wonder if this bizarre foreign fantasy abetted this tragedy.
Abhisit bent over backwards to accomodate the terrorists, who have now gutted the heart of Bangkok. Meanwhile Thaksin (in an undisclosed location?) [gloats about his guerilla war](http://www.livetradingnews.com/thaksin-shinawatra-attempts-civil-war-in-bangkok-13671.htm).
> [@How democratic is the UK really?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-democratic-is-the-uk-really/539576/62):
>
> > [@How democratic is the UK really?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-democratic-is-the-uk-really/539576/61):
> >
> > It happens to be the case that in debates it is usually **septimus** who says “No … no … there are shades of gray” when others are too inclined to see things in black and white. Certainly there are “good people” allied with Thaksin and there are corrupt people allied with the Democrats – I never argued otherwise.
> >
> > But just as it is usually wrong to see things only as black and white, so it is often wrong to assume grayness-equivalence a priori. **Siam Sam** compares Thaksin to Capone. Would you argue, **Great Philosopher** , that the Chicago Mob and FBI just represented “two different shades of gray”?
> >
> > [and elsewhere Septimus wrote:] Right now Bangkok is crippled by armed terrorists asking for elections; elections which “their side” might well win. In many foreign news reports we read that they are “populists” fighting an “elite.” Yet most well-informed Thais understand that the incumbent government is more liberal, and more inclined to “democratic” processes like rural advancement, rural property rights, etc. The terrorists are simply being paid by a heinous billionaire (who looted the Treasury when in power previously), who will also pay them for votes if elections are held. Which side represents “Democracy”?
>
> That didn’t sound like ‘shades of grey’ to me…
No, it isn’t. That’s my whole point. \*Septimus avoids viewing shades-of-gray issues as black-and-white \ ***But also avoids pretending that black-and-white issues are shades of gray**.
I’ve mentioned some of Thaksin’s sins in other threads (and do not doubt that the red-shirt terrorists are nothing else than thugs paid to get Thaksin his billions back), so will go quietly. The thread title says it all. Does anyone doubt it?
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### Author:  [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)
#### Post date: [May 19, 2010, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thaksin-et-al-are-significantly-more-evil-than-abhisit-et-al/540061/2 "2010-05-19T22:25:36Z")
While I’m confident that many red shirt supporters were paid or dupes of some sort, I’m also now convinced that some other less savory characters crowded under this umbrella. I hope it doesn’t become the case that some communist or other agitators don’t begin a sort of insurgency in Thailand.
As for Abhisit vs Thaksin, that’s no contest.
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [May 19, 2010, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thaksin-et-al-are-significantly-more-evil-than-abhisit-et-al/540061/3 "2010-05-19T22:32:31Z")
From Democracy Now!: [Debating the Crisis in Thailand: Is Red Shirt Movement a Genuine Grassroots Struggle, or Front for Ousted Ex-PM, Billionaire Tycoon?](http://www.democracynow.org/2010/5/18/debating_the_crisis_in_thailand_is)
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [May 19, 2010, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thaksin-et-al-are-significantly-more-evil-than-abhisit-et-al/540061/4 "2010-05-19T23:09:30Z")
[Red Shirt leaders surrender.](http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/2010/05/riots-in-bangkok-after-red-shirt-leaders-surrender.html)
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### Author:  [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)
#### Post date: [May 20, 2010, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thaksin-et-al-are-significantly-more-evil-than-abhisit-et-al/540061/5 "2010-05-20T02:19:30Z")
Thaksin wasn’t thrown out because he was corrupt or evil, though (although he certainly was, and he certainly did run roughshod over the courts and civil service). He was thrown out because he pissed off the monarchy, the army, and the rich, and instead of using democratic methods to get rid of him, they overthrew him.
So, yes, I do doubt it. Thailand will not progress until it limits the power of the monarchy and respects the will of the people, and the people behind Abhsit have no intention of doing that.
> [@](#):
>
> Meanwhile Thaksin (in an undisclosed location?) [gloats about his guerilla war](http://www.livetradingnews.com/thaksin-shinawatra-attempts-civil-war-in-bangkok-13671.htm).
Oh, come on. Do you really consider that article unbiased? I’m surprised the article didn’t point out that Thaksin was petting a white Persian cat.
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### Author:  [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)
#### Post date: [May 20, 2010, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thaksin-et-al-are-significantly-more-evil-than-abhisit-et-al/540061/6 "2010-05-20T04:34:49Z")
Personally, I don’t believe anyone even remotely familiar with the situation would judge Abhisit more evil than Thaksin.
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### Author:  [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)
#### Post date: [May 20, 2010, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thaksin-et-al-are-significantly-more-evil-than-abhisit-et-al/540061/7 "2010-05-20T04:55:16Z")
Not Abhsit, but his supporters.
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### Author:  [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)
#### Post date: [May 20, 2010, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thaksin-et-al-are-significantly-more-evil-than-abhisit-et-al/540061/8 "2010-05-20T07:03:36Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#):
>
> Personally, I don’t believe anyone even remotely familiar with the situation would judge Abhisit more evil than Thaksin.
Yes, my OP title ended up rather silly. That I posted at all was a reaction to another Doper in another thread. I look for shades of gray when there _are_ shades of gray, but prefer to look at more black and white issues as black and white. The other Doper seemed over-eager to take a default position that all political conflicts are gray versus gray.
Heck, even I’d agree the two sides in the [2010 Thai political protests](2010 Thai political protests) are shades of gray, but one gray is quite light, the other quite dark. (Anyway, black vs white is simpler than the Thai names for sides here: red, yellow, white, blue, pink, many-color, no-color … how many colors are we up to now? :p)
And of course, the vast majority of the “protesters” were apolitical unfortunates caught up in the confusion, many thinking a paid trip to Bangkok would be quite a lark!
By the way, the Wikipedia page cite above takes a neutral or pro-red tone. If anyone here is a Wikipedia editor, it might be good to correct their pages.
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### Author:  [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2010, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thaksin-et-al-are-significantly-more-evil-than-abhisit-et-al/540061/9 "2010-05-21T14:38:14Z")
[Here’s a video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBDm-jA3N80) which may help dissipate any remaining doubts about red-shirt’s evilness.
(Sorry for duplication: I posted this also in the MPSIMS thread.)