# Thank you, Consumer Protection Agency **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 28, 2012, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-consumer-protection-agency/623356 "2012-05-28T17:02:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BottledBlondJeanie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/0ea827/32.png) [@BottledBlondJeanie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BottledBlondJeanie)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-consumer-protection-agency/623356/21 "2012-05-29T17:59:32Z")
We also hired a lobbyist, but for my specific issue, the government actually asked for input prior to enforcement. That was nice, but didn’t help a bunch. At this point, the specific interest groups are waiting for a significant fine or suspension to use it as guidance and a test case. Fingers crossed you might still be a bit more preliminary than that. I dunno mhendo, why don’t you start here: [Proposed Rules, Guidance & Exemptive Orders | CFTC](http://www.cftc.gov/LawRegulation/DoddFrankAct/Dodd-FrankProposedRules/index.htm) Then you can dig through the CFR, and whatnot. I hyperventilate at the mere mention of anything related to the CFR. To deal with my issue I think I spent about 50 hours, but I did also have to review a shit ton of consent orders which Diosa’s issue doesn’t even have for a modicum of guidance. Wah! I can’t find it on Google. Enjoy your unpaid research time. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-consumer-protection-agency/623356/22 "2012-05-29T18:03:29Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Nope, it doesn’t work like that. > > She doesn’t have to explain it herself, but i’d like a chance to read about it for _myself_, and to look at what it actually does, before deciding whether her rant has any merit. A link is all i need. > > As i said, i did some Googling yesterday using some of the terms in the OP, and i went to the CFPB website, but couldn’t find anything about this. Do you have a lot of experience working with government agencies implementing legislation? At the statutory level the language is rarely specific enough to actually be the regulatory code that will govern an agencies day to day activities. Instead agencies develop regulations and procedures to comply with the law, by specifying exactly what they will do in specific situations. It seems like what’s being talked about here is how one agency is looking to enforce part of the legislation. So you’re probably not going to find a black and white copy of this in the bill text. But rest assured, how Federal agencies choose to interpret statute and apply it are very important. I’m guessing the CFPB hasn’t actually created rules for doing any of this yet, and that’s why they’re having meetings with stakeholders. So there probably isn’t even any agency level regulations currently out there. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-consumer-protection-agency/623356/23 "2012-05-29T18:14:02Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > It _sounds_ to me like this could be handled with only a minor change in the flat fee structure of things. Something like: > > $x to negotiate a payment plan with the IRS. Payable at the time the payment plan is agreed on. > > $y for monitoring over the course of the payment plan, payable at the time the payment plan is complete. > > Just make $y a small amount, and you won’t have to wait much. > > Obviously I’m not a lawyer nor am I familiar with tax law or accounting, but partitioning the services like this is a pretty common tactic. Funny enough, this is actually something I just suggested in the office a bit ago (after reading a few of the suggestions presented in this thread). Naturally, this is all just guessing, since we don’t know what the actual wording of the regulation will be (for instance, depending on how they define “complete” could throw a total wrench into this), but it’s a possibility. Still. . . it just seems so. . . dishonest. I mean, we can of course explain the regulatory change to our incoming clients, so they know why the fee is seemingly so much more complicated than need be, but still. We like to make things easy and transparent. This adds a level of complication that is almost silly. FWIW, years ago when the business first opened, we did the billable hour thing, but clients weren’t terribly keen on it. Quite understandably, people like to know what a particular service is going to cost them up front, so we adapted our flat fee based on that. Now, I suppose with your proposed solution, we could say upfront that the total fee is not to exceed X, just to put some comfort in their minds, but. . . yeah, unnecessary complications. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-consumer-protection-agency/623356/24 "2012-05-29T20:05:36Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I’m guessing the CFPB hasn’t actually created rules for doing any of this yet, and that’s why they’re having meetings with stakeholders. So there probably isn’t even any agency level regulations currently out there. You might well be right. But if that’s the case, then it seems somewhat premature to be bitching about the effects this will have _before_ the rules and regulations are actually laid out. Even the OP seems to concede that the spate of dishonest practitioners in her field makes some tightening of regulations reasonable. And if the CFPB is actually having meetings with the stakeholders, then presumably these issues regarding payment models are going to be raised. Why don’t we see how they deal with the problem in the rules before accusing them of poor management or “unnecessary complications”? My only argument in this thread is a “wait and see” argument. I don’t think that’s unreasonable. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-consumer-protection-agency/623356/25 "2012-05-29T20:21:46Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > My only argument in this thread is a “wait and see” argument. I don’t think that’s unreasonable. I don’t necessarily disagree with you, but if you had to wait and see if your entirely livelihood and family business of 30 years was destroyed, you’d be prematurely bitching while you waited too. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-consumer-protection-agency/623356/26 "2012-05-29T20:30:55Z")
You also wouldn’t check your posts before posting. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-consumer-protection-agency/623356/27 "2012-05-30T04:37:44Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > I don’t necessarily disagree with you, but if you had to wait and see if your entirely livelihood and family business of 30 years was destroyed, you’d be prematurely bitching while you waited too. It’s the Pit. Premature bitching is better than no bitching at all. In the event that bitching lasts more than four hours, see your physician. ---
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-consumer-protection-agency/623356/28 "2012-05-30T20:58:21Z")
> [@digs](#): > > In the event that bitching lasts more than four hours, see your physician. That’s a bitch. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-consumer-protection-agency/623356/29 "2012-05-30T22:29:27Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > I don’t necessarily disagree with you, but if you had to wait and see if your entirely livelihood and family business of 30 years was destroyed, you’d be prematurely bitching while you waited too. I wouldn’t get too worked up over worst case scenarios just yet. Noone is out to get folks like you. They are trying to rein in abuse not destroy your industry, you might have more regulatory hoops to jump through but by your own admission, your industry has a lot of scumbags that could use a little regulation. If that regulation puts those scumbags out of buiness, its not like those tax problems disappear, those folks still need help and either the scumbag operations clean up their act (which would be good for everyone, you no longer have to compete with scumbags that overpromise and underdeliver) or they go out of business and you get a peice of that business. I would also be wary of lobbyists that keep presenting worst case scenarios, sometimes its like going to a lawyer after getting a speeding ticket and having them tell you that you might end up going to jail for 3 months. They might be trying to scare you into higher lobbying fees, scumbags exist in all industries, not just yours. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-consumer-protection-agency/623356/30 "2012-05-31T00:45:27Z")
I understand your concern, but remember two things: One- much is proposed in Congress that never gets close to being signed or even passed or even out of committee. Two: Congress is pretty much deadlocked right now. So, hell yes, be _concerned._ Write those letters, etc. But I wouldn’t be \*worried. \* ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-consumer-protection-agency/623356/31 "2012-05-31T05:50:43Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I understand your concern, but remember two things: > > One- much is proposed in Congress that never gets close to being signed or even passed or even out of committee. > > Two: Congress is pretty much deadlocked right now. > > So, hell yes, be _concerned._ Write those letters, etc. But I wouldn’t be \*worried. \* You’re right, of course— but isn’t this already through Congress? The issue we’re facing is on the enforcement step of the law, if I’m understanding everything correctly. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-consumer-protection-agency/623356/32 "2012-05-31T07:10:08Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > _Your_ business might not, but there are a million attorneys out there working on a contingency fee basis who won’t get paid for work they do today for 10 years. Yes, but those attorneys also bill (and collect) for expenses as they occur during those 10 years. Expenses lie Court fees, copying expenses, secretarial services, mileage & parking, etc. Effectively, it’s costing the attorney nearly nothing except his own time – all the expenses along the way are paid by the client. What if something like that was done in your industry, DiosaBellissima? Would that solve some of this problem? ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-consumer-protection-agency/623356/33 "2012-05-31T14:59:21Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > What if something like that was done in your industry, DiosaBellissima? > Would that solve some of this problem? I’m going to fully admit my ignorance here, but isn’t it that attorneys who work on contingency do it on cases where a monetary award is on the line for their clients? Like, insurance lawsuit attorneys work on contingency or Social Security attorneys work on contingency. . . but folks like family law attorneys don’t. Right? If I’m suing somebody for $100,000, my attorney will work on contingency for a percentage of that payout, but if I’m suing for a divorce or filing a bankruptcy, I generally have to pay for that out of a retainer, yes? In our case, it’s not like the end result is the government paying our clients thousands upon thousands of dollars. It’s more like we’re making sure our clients can pay back their thousands and thousands of dollars to the government without being rendered homeless in the interim. On occasion, we certainly have clients who had their money levied illegally by the government and we have to get it returned, but I’d say that’s maybe 15% of our total business (a total WAG on that percentage). ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-consumer-protection-agency/623356/34 "2012-05-31T15:03:35Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > Yes, but those attorneys also bill (and collect) for expenses as they occur during those 10 years. Expenses lie Court fees, copying expenses, secretarial services, mileage & parking, etc. Effectively, it’s costing the attorney nearly nothing except his own time – all the expenses along the way are paid by the client. Everything in this post is wrong. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-consumer-protection-agency/623356.md?page=1)