# Thank you Dan Simmons for that 725 page fucking PART ONE **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 20, 2008, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-dan-simmons-for-that-725-page-fucking-part-one/438362 "2008-02-20T08:42:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Daithi\_Lacha](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daithi_lacha/32/5430_2.png) [@Daithi\_Lacha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daithi_Lacha)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2008, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-dan-simmons-for-that-725-page-fucking-part-one/438362/21 "2008-02-20T19:49:27Z")
For a birthday when I was younger, a friend got me Eric Van Lustbader’s _The Sunset Warrior_ trilogy. Except it wasn’t a trilogy; it was only two books. Although it came in a presentation box, it was only volumes 1 and 3. Like after starting it and finishing it, I’d rush right out and buy volume #2, anxious to find out the bit in the middle. I never did. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Tyger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/fbc32d/32.png) [@Silver\_Tyger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Tyger)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2008, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-dan-simmons-for-that-725-page-fucking-part-one/438362/22 "2008-02-20T20:15:48Z")
My mom buys books for me all the time. She never bothers to check to see if its part of a series. Sometimes she buys me part two (without part one). Then she’s offended when I don’t read them. ---
**Author:** ![nashiitashii](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7c8e57/32.png) [@nashiitashii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nashiitashii)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2008, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-dan-simmons-for-that-725-page-fucking-part-one/438362/23 "2008-02-20T20:29:57Z")
I don’t really end up having this problem, but I read a lot more “self contained” literature and nonfiction than the “to be continued” variety of fantasy/SF stuff, and I tend to use the library more often than I buy books. (There’s a serious lack of good bookstores in the nearby area. Damn tourists!) I will admit, though, that I had a major letdown over the first two books of _The Sharing Knife_ series. Honestly, I am not totally enthused about romance dressed up as fantasy when the fantasy part is lacking. ---
**Author:** ![xnylder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/bbce88/32.png) [@xnylder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xnylder)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2008, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-dan-simmons-for-that-725-page-fucking-part-one/438362/24 "2008-02-20T21:07:19Z")
I’ve got Books 1, 2, and 3 of a nominally four-part manga series (_Alichino_, by Kouyu Shurei). Books 1 and 2 have lovely art and crap writing. Book 3 has lovely art and a real, compelling plot! Book 4… has yet to be published, and may never be, seeing as the magazine that originally published the manga has gone out of print. Grumble. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2008, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-dan-simmons-for-that-725-page-fucking-part-one/438362/25 "2008-02-20T21:22:04Z")
[QUOTE=Eleanor of Aquitaine] I thought the book flap on \*Ilium \*describes it as the first of a two-part epic? Or did you buy it without a cover? [/QUOTE] Nope. [This](http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51V52TCAZZL._SS500_.jpg) is the same cover as mine. Nothing inside other than “other books by this author” - which didn’t list Olympos. Blurb on the back about the plot and “Hugo winning author” - nothing anywhere on my copy to indicate that there’s another one. > [@Grammanaut](#): > > Don’t bother with part two. I finished Ilium with the same WTF!-sensation and then bought part two (Olympos) only to find it riddled with typos and weird transport passages. It looks like a draft, not a finished novel. It also looks like a draft that an editor should have shaved off to about half before allowing it to be published. Blegh. Oh, goody. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2008, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-dan-simmons-for-that-725-page-fucking-part-one/438362/26 "2008-02-20T21:47:04Z")
I agree with **Grammanaut** – _Olympos_ was almost unreadable. “Turd stuck in your Ilium” – 😃 Beware also of big fat hardcovers that are split and published in two paperback volumes. That happened with _Speaks the Nightbird_ and with the _Legends_ anthologies. Not such a big deal with _Legends_ unless you were buying it for one or two authors and they weren’t in the volume you bought. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2008, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-dan-simmons-for-that-725-page-fucking-part-one/438362/27 "2008-02-20T22:40:48Z")
It needs to be said again: Simmons has a history of this. Hyperion is a brilliant book, wonderfully written with a great sense of wonder. And then it suddenly cuts off on the last page and it turns out that the great 600 pages you just read were little more than a prologue to a much worse book. At this point I’ve stopped reading him until well after the fact and if the comments on the conclusion are absolutely glowing. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2008, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-dan-simmons-for-that-725-page-fucking-part-one/438362/28 "2008-02-20T23:51:30Z")
spoiler space . . . … . . . . . “No,” he whispered. “Oh, no.” then he felt the word well up from some terrible source, tear out of him, and the barred doors of the High One’s house split from top to bottom with the force of that shout. There’s no question that it’s Morgon who shouts the Great Shout\*. He shouts because of what he has just learned. What exactly has he learned? That’s not revealed until the next book. - The Great Shout is a mystical/psychic ability known to wizards and certain arcane scholars. It can break things, make fruit for miles drop off trees, and occurs IIRC a grand total of three times in the series. ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2008, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-dan-simmons-for-that-725-page-fucking-part-one/438362/29 "2008-02-20T23:58:55Z")
[QUOTE=thelurkinghorror] I’m three quarters through the Hyperion tetralogy. It’s very clearly a set of four, although you could get away with just reading the first two, he at least puts an ending there. If you don’t want to start that series, I can summarize the first book for you: 1. Some people go to Hyperion. 2. They tell stories. 3. They get to where they want to go. 4. The End. I left one spoiler out, but that’s pretty much it, it’s step 2 where the bulk of the plot lies. It is pretty blatantly set up for a sequel. Really do your research before starting something, at least read wikipedia minus the Plot Summary section. [/QUOTE] I read the second book and wished I’d stopped with the first. I didn’t even know there WAS a second book - the first one was so blatantly following the format of Canterbury Tales that I assumed the open ending was deliberate. ---
**Author:** ![Leah\_M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/57b2e6/32.png) [@Leah\_M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leah_M)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2008, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-dan-simmons-for-that-725-page-fucking-part-one/438362/30 "2008-02-21T00:57:44Z")
[QUOTE=xnylder] I’ve got Books 1, 2, and 3 of a nominally four-part manga series (_Alichino_, by Kouyu Shurei). Books 1 and 2 have lovely art and crap writing. Book 3 has lovely art and a real, compelling plot! Book 4… has yet to be published, and may never be, seeing as the magazine that originally published the manga has gone out of print. Grumble. [/QUOTE] I’ve run into this problem with Yami no Matsuei / Descendants of Darkness. I don’t think the author ever finished it. I’m up to volume 10 or 11… and then it just peters out. Author went on hiatus (in 2003, so sayeth Wikipedia) and I have not heard a peep since. It’s been long enough that I’ve forgotten most of the story details anyway, and I would have to reread the whole thing if any more ever came out. ---
**Author:** ![Procyon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ac91a4/32.png) [@Procyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procyon)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2008, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-dan-simmons-for-that-725-page-fucking-part-one/438362/31 "2008-02-21T01:01:31Z")
[The post below contains vague spoilers for the Prince of Nothing series. I’m not boxing them because there are no specifics of the plot mentioned, only the overall quality of it.] Man, I know exactly what you’re talking about, **Morbo**. I’ve completely given up reading sci-fi or fantasy books unless I know that the series they’re inevitably a part of is completely finished. If I start a series that’s not done yet, I always lose interest in it by the time the next book is coming out. Also, if the whole series is done before I even start reading, I can’t be tricked into reading ten books just because I want to know how the thing ends. Only a trilogy? Sign me up. Decalogue with prequels? No thanks. Enter R. Scott Bakker. His book _The Darkness that Comes Before_ has a flashy cover so of course I am intrigued, but it clearly states “The Prince of Nothing, Book I” on it. Thus I don’t even consider wading in; to do so would violate my policy. Several years pass. Then I see his latest book, _The Thousandfold Thought_, that proudly advertises itself as “the conclusion to the Prince of Nothing series.” Hot damn, I think to myself, I can finally crack open this flashy cover and sink my teeth into a complete, self-encapsulated whole. And so I did. Now, without spoiling anything specific, let me opine for a second. To say that the third book, the _soi-disant_ “conclusion,” wraps up absolutely none of the storylines is an understatement. Not only does it fail to even _mention_ the cliffhanger at the very end of the second book, it wallops you with an even bigger one. Not only do none–_none_–of the characters have their conflicts with themselves or one another resolved (unless they end up dead), we get about three new major conflicts in the last chapter. And most egregiously, not only does the main story arc of the whole trilogy end pretty much resolved-in-name-only (i.e. not resolved at all), the book’s ending tries its hardest to make that whole arc irrelevant. All of which, to be honest, would be basically fine with me if the book itself didn’t actually state it was “the conclusion to the series.” I mean, what the hell kind of conclusion is that? Surely this cannot be. A misprint, maybe? I frantically searched the web for some sign that this was not the actual last book of the series. And this is where R. Scott Bakker subverted my fantasy series policy. It was the last book. Only now the author has started another series. That’s set in the same universe and about the same characters and takes place after the events in the last book. Under what bizarre definition of “series” do these shenanigans make sense? As far as I can tell, this whole Prince of Nothing “trilogy” was merely a ploy to lull me into complacency, to make me _think_ the series was finished and thus buy this guy’s books. Well, it didn’t work: I got them from the library. ---
**Author:** ![Eleanor\_of\_Aquitaine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a88e4f/32.png) [@Eleanor\_of\_Aquitaine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleanor_of_Aquitaine)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2008, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-dan-simmons-for-that-725-page-fucking-part-one/438362/32 "2008-02-21T01:05:15Z")
[QUOTE=Morbo] Nope. [This](http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51V52TCAZZL._SS500_.jpg) is the same cover as mine. Nothing inside other than “other books by this author” - which didn’t list Olympos. Blurb on the back about the plot and “Hugo winning author” - nothing anywhere on my copy to indicate that there’s another one. [/QUOTE] That’s weird, that’s the same cover I have, in hardback, and on the back below the blurbs it says, “The epic begun in Ilium will be concluded in the forthcoming novel _Olympos_.” The plot summary on the back flap states this also. It really stinks that they left this out in your edition. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2008, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-dan-simmons-for-that-725-page-fucking-part-one/438362/33 "2008-02-21T01:45:59Z")
I found this one book at a used paperback bookstore. This group of people, some short ones, one with pointy ears, one rough and tumble outdoors-ey type of guy, one bearded really short guy, a normal human, and some other magic guy had to go to this far away mountain to throw away some kind of ring or something. It was pretty good, but, when I finished, they didn’t destroy the ring and the group got disbanded. I was so pissed. And, to add insult to injury, the book is so obscure I haven’t been able to find out the other two books in the series, even at full price. It was something like Lord of the Dance by Alice B. Toklas or something. … ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2008, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-dan-simmons-for-that-725-page-fucking-part-one/438362/34 "2008-02-21T02:35:28Z")
Yeah, Dan Simmons is notorious for this. I start off almost every book excited and end up with “NO! You bastard!” 😉 Try _The Terror_- it’s a stand-alone, I swear to God! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2008, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-dan-simmons-for-that-725-page-fucking-part-one/438362/35 "2008-02-21T06:06:53Z")
[QUOTE=Eleanor of Aquitaine] That’s weird, that’s the same cover I have, in hardback, and on the back below the blurbs it says, “The epic begun in Ilium will be concluded in the forthcoming novel _Olympos_.” The plot summary on the back flap states this also. It really stinks that they left this out in your edition. [/QUOTE] Maybe there were so many complaints that the publisher added that in later editions. Does it also say “NOT Hyperion! Two books only!” ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2008, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-dan-simmons-for-that-725-page-fucking-part-one/438362/36 "2008-02-21T06:53:16Z")
[QUOTE=EJsGirl] Yeah, Dan Simmons is notorious for this. I start off almost every book excited and end up with “NO! You bastard!” 😉 Try _The Terror_- it’s a stand-alone, I swear to God! 🙂 [/QUOTE] So were _Carrion Comfort_ – very good – and _Summer of Night_ – which I hated. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2008, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-dan-simmons-for-that-725-page-fucking-part-one/438362/37 "2008-02-21T10:21:34Z")
For one horrible second I thought the title was a swipe at the Dave Simmons sticky :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2008, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-dan-simmons-for-that-725-page-fucking-part-one/438362/38 "2008-02-21T14:00:09Z")
[QUOTE=Pushkin] For one horrible second I thought the title was a swipe at the Dave Simmons sticky :eek: [/QUOTE] I thought that when I saw the thread and when I opened it, and for a few minutes of reading it. Then I realized it wasn’t, and that **David Simmons** had merely recommended this book that pissed **Morbo** off. It wasn’t until **Just Some Guy** said that Simmons had a history of this that I figured it out. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2008, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-dan-simmons-for-that-725-page-fucking-part-one/438362/39 "2008-02-21T14:10:26Z")
I don’t know. On the rare occasion I find a sci-fi/fantasy book good enough for me to actually finish, I’m happy to learn that another one just as readible is is about to come out. You have to count your blessings. ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2008, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-dan-simmons-for-that-725-page-fucking-part-one/438362/40 "2008-02-21T16:48:36Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] But that’s been out for _decades_. Any decent public library will have all three books bound together in a single hardcover. [/QUOTE] You’d think that, but my public library only has Tad Williams’ _The Dragonbone Chair_. Not even a hint of the other two books in the trilogy. And I didn’t find this out until I went hunting for book 2. :mad: My dad once got me Terry Brooks’ _Morgawr_ for a Christmas present. I read it anyway and then went out to get the first two books in the trilogy. (I wasn’t upset about that because I’d never read any Brooks before besides _Hook_ and I didn’t know if I’d even want to keep it.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-dan-simmons-for-that-725-page-fucking-part-one/438362.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-dan-simmons-for-that-725-page-fucking-part-one/438362.md?page=3)