# Thank You For Marginalizing Our Dead, Mr Bush **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 19, 2002, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-for-marginalizing-our-dead-mr-bush/104508 "2002-04-19T13:30:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![kingpengvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9dc877/32.png) [@kingpengvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kingpengvin)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2002, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-for-marginalizing-our-dead-mr-bush/104508/1 "2002-04-19T13:30:02Z")
Today we have four dead and eight wounded Canadian soldiers because of a horrible mistake made by an American Pilot when he dropped a 500 lb laser guided bomb in the midst of a live fire training excersise in a known training area outside of Khandhar. According to the Department of National Defence the excersise was logged and noted with the American Forces and there was no reason for the pilot not to have been informed of what was going on below him. Now first I was angry because these deaths were unnecessary but now I’m Livid because Mr. Bush didn’t even deign it necessary to mention in his many appearences in front of the cameras yesterday! Worse than that when fianlly prompted at teh end of the day he gives a dismissive “I’ve already expressed condolences to the Priminister” while walking away. [URL=http://cbc.ca/stories/2002/04/18/friendfire020418] Some Generals of the United States involved in these operations did aleviate some of my anger because they actually (and maybe because they understand the impact of loss of fellow soldiers) expressed condolences. But Mr Bush you really Ticked me off!! ---
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2002, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-for-marginalizing-our-dead-mr-bush/104508/2 "2002-04-19T14:10:10Z")
If you’re looking for snubs, you can find them anywhere. You’re outraged by what someone didn’t do! (And quote marks generally indicate an actual quote. That’s not what Bush said.) ---
**Author:** ![MilTan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@MilTan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MilTan)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2002, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-for-marginalizing-our-dead-mr-bush/104508/3 "2002-04-19T14:35:41Z")
Sure, but might it not be reasonable to expect that the president of your neighbor should say something substantial after said neighbor’s military has (albeit accidentally) killed several of your citizens? Maybe that’s just me. The full quote from the linked article: > [@](#): > > Bush did not mention the deaths during a series of events in Washington until a reporter shouted a question as he was leaving the fourth meeting of the day. “I talked to the Prime Minister last night and expressed my condolences,” Bush said. Admittedly, it is a little biased because it is from a Canadian source. But imagine if it were US soldiers killed: Bush would have led the day with an apology and condolences. Why should it be any different for Canadian soldiers? ---
**Author:** ![kingpengvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9dc877/32.png) [@kingpengvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kingpengvin)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2002, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-for-marginalizing-our-dead-mr-bush/104508/4 "2002-04-19T14:43:34Z")
I’m Outraged by what someone should have done! Excuse me but if American’s get killed by an ally in a stupid negligent act would they not expect a public response from that country’s leader? What do you think their raction would be? Unfortunately once again teh Tunnel vision comes in and no one else matters but their troops. We have sent our forces out to aid in the War on Terrorism as an ally and Friend of the United States. Our troops understand the risks involved but this is unacceptable and His dismissive answer to the question was disgusting (Id suggest looking at the clip to see what I mean) Forgive me for the incorrect use of quotes but I’m quite incensed. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2002, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-for-marginalizing-our-dead-mr-bush/104508/5 "2002-04-19T14:50:35Z")
Never mind the quotes, but could we please get some commas in the thread title? For a minute there I thought it was Mr. Bush who was dead… And I agree, glossing over the deaths of our allies is extremely tacky. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2002, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-for-marginalizing-our-dead-mr-bush/104508/6 "2002-04-19T14:57:12Z")
Great… anyone left that America hasn’t pissed off yet? I am beginning to _really_ feel proud of this country’s government. As a matter of friendly fire in the case of Americans killing Americans, of course, there isn’t much to say, but I would think that friendly-fire things like this between two nations should really get a formal apology. Of course, apologies don’t bring back the dead, but come on, Bush. What the hell has Canada done to deserve such a cold shoulder? ---
**Author:** ![kingpengvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9dc877/32.png) [@kingpengvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kingpengvin)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2002, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-for-marginalizing-our-dead-mr-bush/104508/7 "2002-04-19T14:57:12Z")
Thanks Fretful and MilTan. For a while there I thought I was alone and over reacting to this. You have to understand that we haven’t had an incident of friendly fire casualties since Korea and it was quite a blow to us to loose men in a situation where they were training. Please forgive my poor spelling, grammer and punctuation normally I try to at least check these things once; today I just rushed it out. ---
**Author:** ![kingpengvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9dc877/32.png) [@kingpengvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kingpengvin)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2002, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-for-marginalizing-our-dead-mr-bush/104508/8 "2002-04-19T14:59:12Z")
Loose men?!?! Ok no excuse for that mistake!! ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2002, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-for-marginalizing-our-dead-mr-bush/104508/9 "2002-04-19T15:10:32Z")
Where’s the debate? Shouldn’t this be in the PIT? ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2002, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-for-marginalizing-our-dead-mr-bush/104508/10 "2002-04-19T15:15:42Z")
> [@](#): > > Chretien issued a statement late Wednesday expressing his deep sadness at the news. He said he received a call from Bush, who offered the “sincerest condolences” of the American people to the Canadian families. > > Bush also pledged complete American cooperation with Canadian authorities, who have launched an investigation. [http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/STRIKE\_MAIN.html](http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/STRIKE_MAIN.html) ---
**Author:** ![RTA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b4bc9f/32.png) [@RTA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTA)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2002, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-for-marginalizing-our-dead-mr-bush/104508/11 "2002-04-19T19:54:14Z")
If it’s any consolation, Bush does not represent the values and mores of America. Lots more Americans voted for the other guy than voted for Bush, but only because more Americans wanted the other guy to be President. ---
**Author:** ![My\_Darn\_Snake\_Legs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f14d63/32.png) [@My\_Darn\_Snake\_Legs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/My_Darn_Snake_Legs)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2002, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-for-marginalizing-our-dead-mr-bush/104508/12 "2002-04-19T20:22:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RTA \* > \*\*If it’s any consolation, Bush does not represent the values and mores of America. Lots more Americans voted for the other guy than voted for Bush, but only because more Americans wanted the other guy to be President. \*\* Why would you even bring that up? Are you going to blame **President** Bush for the actions of a pilot who had the wrong information? Do you think that the President gave the coordinates to the pilot and told him to blow up Canadians? Nope. Probably not. Is he sorry to hear about the mistake? Yep, I’d bet he is. He did give an apology to the Canadians. What would you consider **not** a snub? A hand-written appology from every American to the Canadian people? I’m very sorry that it happened and my heart goes out to those families, but I don’t think they were snubbed. \ On a side note: Yes, President Bush does represent my “mores,” that’s why I voted for him. If you don’t like it, that’s too bad. In a democratic-republic some people are not going to like the person in office. Too bad, he won and he represents all of us to the world. \ –==the sax man==– ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2002, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-for-marginalizing-our-dead-mr-bush/104508/13 "2002-04-19T20:32:35Z")
SMUsax wrote: > [@](#): > > \ > On a side note: Yes, President Bush does represent my “mores,” that’s why I voted for him. If you don’t like it, that’s too bad. In a democratic-republic some people are not going to like the person in office. Too bad, **he won** and he represents all of us to the world. > \ Some people might disagree with those two words I’ve underlined… ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2002, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-for-marginalizing-our-dead-mr-bush/104508/14 "2002-04-19T20:45:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fretful Porpentine \* > \*\* > > And I agree, glossing over the deaths of our allies is extremely tacky. \*\* Let’s not forget these aren’t just “deaths of our allies”, they are deaths of our allies \* that we caused!\* You’d think the President of the United States could/would do a little better to demonstrate to the world that we are sorry for such a deadly and horrible screw up. (Gee, I wonder who is expressing condolences to the families of the Canadians who are dead?) But since he’s just a tool, I’m not surprised. And **Tracer** , ya got that right. stoid Re-Elect Gore in 2004! ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2002, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-for-marginalizing-our-dead-mr-bush/104508/15 "2002-04-19T21:17:13Z")
Boo hoo you lost 4 people and had 8 injured. Soldiers have been known to get killed in training accidents and at least here in the states death is basic training isn’t unheard of. Do you expect the President to go on air and cry his little eyes out over this? He talked to your Prime Minister about it and that was enough. I do feel bad for those who were killed or injured and for their families. A soldier’s life is risky but that doesn’t make anyone feel better when their loved one dies. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Monster104](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Monster104](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monster104)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2002, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-for-marginalizing-our-dead-mr-bush/104508/16 "2002-04-19T21:35:26Z")
I pretty much agree there, Marc. Although, it was a US pilot who caused those deaths, so Bush wouldn’t have been overdoing it at all by making a public speech about it. However, for the Anti Bush fanatics, he issued a direct apology to the Prime Minister and pledged complete cooperation in the investigation. So stop your one-trick-pony Anti Bush antics already, will you? ---
**Author:** ![Demosthenesian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Demosthenesian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Demosthenesian)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2002, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-for-marginalizing-our-dead-mr-bush/104508/17 "2002-04-19T22:07:14Z")
\ On a side note: Yes, President Bush does represent my “mores,” that’s why I voted for him. If you don’t like it, that’s too bad. In a democratic-republic some people are not going to like the person in office. Too bad, he won and he represents all of us to the world. \ \ Yes, he did recieve a majority vote from the voters. All nine of them. \ In any case, Bush is certainly responsible on at least some level for the Pilot’s unbelievably stupid mistake. Has everybody forgotten “the buck stops here?” A commander is responsible for the actions of his subordinates, and that goes all the way up to the Commander-in-Chief. Unfair? Too bad. It’s why he gets the money, the fancy house, and the guy that follows you around everywhere with a briefcase with some very special codes inside. If an apology to the Canadian people or to the families of the men involved is necessary, and some people obviously think it is, then it is ultimately Bush’s responsibility to make it… not to Jean Chretien (who is neither head of state nor commander-in-chief), but publicly, to the people. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2002, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-for-marginalizing-our-dead-mr-bush/104508/18 "2002-04-19T22:21:52Z")
[…hijack related to point of order…] Gah! I thought the president was dead. I ran over and turned the TV from a movie I was taping. Could a mod _please_ punctuate the thread title with a comma? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2002, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-for-marginalizing-our-dead-mr-bush/104508/19 "2002-04-19T22:30:05Z")
Forgive me. It was rude of me to post my off-topic appeal without addressing the Opening Poster’s debate. The title was just so… jarring. I think it was grievously negligent that the president failed to convey his regrets and condolences at every public opportunity that day. ---
**Author:** ![Balduran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cc9497/32.png) [@Balduran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balduran)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2002, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-for-marginalizing-our-dead-mr-bush/104508/20 "2002-04-19T22:53:15Z")
Nobody in Canada really blames Bush or the US for this accident. We all know friendly fire casulties happen from time to time. It’s incredible that there have been so little in the last few operations we’ve had. The reason Canada is a bit upset is the timing and manner of the apology. When friendly fire casulties happened to US forces most recently (I think there were 3 servicemen killed), the very next press conference the first thing Bush did was publicly offer his sincere regret and apologies to the family and friends of those killed. This time it happened to Canadian soldiers, but it was not until his fifth conference and only after prodding from a Canadian journalist at the end of the conference did he say anything publicly about it. People have already mentioned how he delivered his apology. That letter of regret did not come until later. Of course we don’t expect Bush to prostrate himself on the ground and beg for our forgiveness or cry his eyes out. We’re also not jumping up and down here yelling “Acknowledge us!”. It was just seen as him promoting a different standard (however slight or unintentional) between US and Canadian forces. There have been many kind gestures by Americans over this incident so I’m sure this is not the feeling of the American people. An amusing anectode my partner heard from a Canadian cabinet minister during a conference. After 911, Bush neglected to thank Canada for taking in all their airplanes. Former prime minister Brian Mulroney was visiting Bush senior at the time (I guess they are still pretty good buddies). Mulroney told Bush Sr. that Canada was expecting a public thank-you. Next press conference, Bush Jr. is going on about how we are all brothers I’m not going to comment one way or the other on Bush’s abilities, but I think he does have a tendency to overlook these diplomatic niceties and not just to Canadians. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-for-marginalizing-our-dead-mr-bush/104508.md?page=2)