# thank you, mr. frank (miranda lawyer) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 29, 2002, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-mr-frank-miranda-lawyer/130097 "2002-09-29T14:27:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![LH75](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lh75/32/4438_2.png) [@LH75](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LH75)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2002, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-mr-frank-miranda-lawyer/130097/1 "2002-09-29T14:27:11Z")
good morning friends. reported in the omaha world herald this morning: [john frank](http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_np=0&u_pg=54&u_sid=517821) > [@](#): > > “You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to speak to an attorney and to have an attorney present during any questioning. If you cannot afford a lawyer, one will be provided for you at government expense.” > Miranda Rights > John P. Frank, the constitutional scholar, professor and lawyer whose defense of Ernesto Miranda before the U.S. Supreme Court helped etch those words into the vocabulary of arresting officers, assuring the civil rights of all criminal suspects, has died. He was 84. ---
**Author:** ![Violet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/ebca7d/32.png) [@Violet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Violet)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2002, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-mr-frank-miranda-lawyer/130097/2 "2002-09-29T22:06:59Z")
I don’t see a debate here. But Mr. Frank, may you R.I.P. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2002, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-mr-frank-miranda-lawyer/130097/3 "2002-09-30T05:26:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Violet \* > \*\*I don’t see a debate here. \*\* He’s only mostly dead. ---
**Author:** ![Violet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/ebca7d/32.png) [@Violet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Violet)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2002, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-mr-frank-miranda-lawyer/130097/4 "2002-09-30T06:24:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rhythmdvl \* > \*\* > > He’s only mostly dead. \*\* 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Frink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Mr.Frink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Frink)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2002, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-mr-frank-miranda-lawyer/130097/5 "2002-09-30T09:56:35Z")
You’re Welcome. Er… ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2002, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-mr-frank-miranda-lawyer/130097/6 "2002-09-30T13:09:38Z")
Can I look through his pockets for loose change? Sorry… Moderators, please movva dis thing! ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2002, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-mr-frank-miranda-lawyer/130097/7 "2002-09-30T15:01:02Z")
Well I don’t thank Mr. Frank. Do you know how many months I could have saved in criminal procedure if Miranda warnings hadn’t been created? Billions! oooooh, it protects people. ~La de da~! But it’s an inherent right to provide basic freedom from self incrimination. Yeah? So’s your mom. But what if you get stopped, wouldn’t you want Miranda protecting you? Um…ok, it’s good in that instance…I guess. But not for anyone else! My criminal procedure book would have been a hell of a lot simpler if it just said “here are the protections granted to Ender. The rest of you are shit out of luck.” Oh yeah, and R.I.P. Mr. John P. Frank. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2002, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-mr-frank-miranda-lawyer/130097/8 "2002-09-30T15:11:57Z")
Well, was Miranda a good thing? I’ve heard people say it’s bad law. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2002, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-mr-frank-miranda-lawyer/130097/9 "2002-09-30T16:59:16Z")
**E-Sabbath** : Care to expound? The Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution was adopted in part because of the experience of previous generations of people living under English law where the monarch’s men could compel confessions – including ones from innocent people they were convinced were guilty. _Miranda vs. Escobedo_ provided a formulary of rights which police were to honor and to ensure that their arrestees were aware of based on what that amendment (and to a lesser extent the Sixth) provides. A large number of people have argued over the years that it “gives unfair advantage to the criminal” although I don’t see this – it merely assures that the accused is aware of his rights, a conviction being normally quite possible on other grounds than a confession forced out of him. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2002, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-mr-frank-miranda-lawyer/130097/10 "2002-09-30T17:21:20Z")
> [@](#): > > I’ve heard people say it’s bad law. Interestingly, when a bunch of reactionary congresscritters got together last year (two years ago?) to write a law to overturn Miranda (based on a paragraph in the SCOTUS decision that noted the possibility of a legislative loophole), they were unable to get any support from the law enforcement community, at large. Most of the police forces actually _like_ having a concrete action that everyone knows and understands that keeps them from losing cases where the defendant accuses the police of not respecting his/her rights. By having the Miranda warning available and memorized and in use at every arrest, it actually protects most police from both errors and false accusations. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2002, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-mr-frank-miranda-lawyer/130097/11 "2002-09-30T18:11:49Z")
I would like to expand on “hearing people say it’s bad law.” I suspect, frankly, it was a news report about two years ago, so probably those congresscritters. Normally, I’m fairly good on citing things, but I was more attempting to convert this into a debate. As a result, I’m afraid this was a bit of posterior reasoning. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2002, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-mr-frank-miranda-lawyer/130097/12 "2002-09-30T19:06:23Z")
Here’s more or less what I was remembering, vaugely. [http://lawschool.stanford.edu/alumni/lawyer/59/feature2.shtml](http://lawschool.stanford.edu/alumni/lawyer/59/feature2.shtml) Does this gentleman have a point? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2002, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-mr-frank-miranda-lawyer/130097/13 "2002-10-01T01:54:54Z")
Without Miranda, most episodes of _Law & Order_ would only be 5 minutes long. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2002, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-mr-frank-miranda-lawyer/130097/14 "2002-10-01T04:02:31Z")
I don’t know if he has a point about the 28,000 figure, but he’s tilting at windmills. Even if the Miranda rule could have been overturned by statute (which SCOTUS fairly recently said no to), most police deprtments would have retained it anyway. Even if Miranda wasn’t or isn’t a constitutional necessity, it’s an even longer standing rule of law that all confessions must be voluntary to be admissible. Most police departments probably would have retained it as a prophylactic measure, as prima facie evidence that the confession in question was given voluntarily. ---
**Author:** ![ElwoodCuse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/edb3f5/32.png) [@ElwoodCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElwoodCuse)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2002, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-mr-frank-miranda-lawyer/130097/15 "2002-10-02T02:55:49Z")
He’s not at all well.