# Thank you SO much for two straight years of tax rebates. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 5, 2001, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-so-much-for-two-straight-years-of-tax-rebates/97003 "2001-12-05T08:50:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![chique](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@chique](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chique)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-so-much-for-two-straight-years-of-tax-rebates/97003/1 "2001-12-05T08:50:49Z")
> **[The latest from the StarTribune](https://www.startribune.com/)** > > Follow the StarTribune for the news, photos and videos from the Twin Cities and beyond. > **[The latest from the StarTribune](https://www.startribune.com/)** > > Follow the StarTribune for the news, photos and videos from the Twin Cities and beyond. I appreciate it, really. You didn’t have to go out of your way for us taxpayers, really. Not at ALL! What you SHOULD have done is what any rational, thinking person who KNEW the dot com bubble was eventually going to bust would do - put it away for the fall. You know, the whole Grasshopper and the Ant scene. But no, you gave it back to us. “It’ll spur on the economy!” you said. “People will spend it!” you said. Uh huh. Fat lotta good it did, eh? Hell, I don’t even know towards whom the ‘you’ in my first paragraph should be directed - the ijit in the governor’s mansion or the spineless wussified state legislators who thought this a **stunning** idea. Then there’s us - you know, the ones who voted these braniacs into office. _sigh_ Can’t even work up enough vitriol over this. A two-year-old could have told you giving money away is not a good idea. Just peeved that my prediction actually came true. ---
**Author:** ![imthjckaz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/imthjckaz/32/3223_2.png) [@imthjckaz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/imthjckaz)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-so-much-for-two-straight-years-of-tax-rebates/97003/2 "2001-12-05T10:36:07Z")
> [@](#): > > The most worrisome type of shortfall, it represents a long-range contraction in the state’s economy, the result, in this case, of heavy job losses and other longer-term economic changes. This does not bode well for those who have already lost their jobs(me) and who must now try to find one. > [@](#): > > In the 2001-2002 recession, Minnesota’s total job loss could reach 34,000, according to the forecast – the state’s largest job loss in 20 years. The impact will be magnified because the losses are expected to occur primarily in the higher-paying sectors of manufacturing, transportation, communication and public utilities rather than in the lower-paying service sector Oh that’s great. I won’t be able to find a job that will pay something comparable to the one I lost, but I could still go to McDonalds, Burger King or KFC. Target, maybe. Walmart? This sucks. ---
**Author:** ![Taste](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Taste](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taste)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-so-much-for-two-straight-years-of-tax-rebates/97003/3 "2001-12-05T12:17:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by chique \* > \*\*[http://www.startribune.com/stories/587/873931.html](http://www.startribune.com/stories/587/873931.html) > [http://www.startribune.com/stories/587/875386.html](http://www.startribune.com/stories/587/875386.html) > Can’t even work up enough vitriol over this. A two-year-old could have told you giving money away is not a good idea. Just peeved that my prediction actually came true. \*\* Yeah, they gave the taxpayers their own money back. That’s giving money away now? Here’s a quarter. Go to the arcade and play a clue game. Oh, wait, now I get it. You wanted higher taxes. How stupid of me. :rolleyes: I’d love to know your stance on Sara Jane, while we’re at it. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-so-much-for-two-straight-years-of-tax-rebates/97003/4 "2001-12-05T14:14:32Z")
There is nothing I find more disgusting about leftist policy than the notion that allowing people to keep their own money is “giving it away.” Yeah, there are proper times to do tax cuts and not to do them, but don’t ever try to convince me that my money is not mine. ---
**Author:** ![CnoteChris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/278dde/32.png) [@CnoteChris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CnoteChris)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-so-much-for-two-straight-years-of-tax-rebates/97003/5 "2001-12-05T14:17:13Z")
I actually agree with **Taste** here. I don’t know if I’d present it in such an assholish manner as he/she did, this far into the game, but to each their own. As far as I saw it, you either return the money, or spend it. You could always tuck it away for a rainy day, but no politician is ever going to let that happen-- they’ll find ways to please their constituents. The biggest issue at the time with me was how much of a balance was made. That is, how much should be spent and how much should be returned. As far as I was concerned, too much was given back given the needs at the time. Both sides, republican and democrat, were obsessed with either giving more back or spending more than the other guy. When it all came down to it, more was given back than should have been spent. That side one. Too bad, but it’s what happened. I still think we’d be in the same boat now-- we’d be coming up short-- but the only difference would be how much. If my plan had gone through (I tried to present it, but nobody listened) we’d be slightly better off now, but not by much. The big thing now is how they make up this difference. In a fair world, I think all that got money back before should now pay in. It seems obvious, but again, get politicians invloved in it all, and I think they’ll find a way to screw over one segment of society over the other in making up the difference. At least, as far as I’m concerned, it won’t be in the same proportion as it was when money was going the other way. Make any sense? And **Taste** , I’d be interested in your take on Sarah Jane Olson, aka, Kathleen Soliah. Why don’t you start? ---
**Author:** ![Hibbins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ce73a5/32.png) [@Hibbins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hibbins)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-so-much-for-two-straight-years-of-tax-rebates/97003/6 "2001-12-05T17:37:15Z")
**CnoteChris** > [@](#): > > When it all came down to it, more was given back than should have been spent. Returning _your_ money is not spending it! > [@](#): > > As far as I was concerned, too much was given back given the needs at the time. A little 20/20 hindsight. If the needs had remained the same as they were **at the time** there would be no shortfall. Furthemore, if there was so much _concern_ about a potential shortfall and such a _need_ for a “rainy day” fund, then budget cuts should have been made to allow for an adquate surplus even with the established return. I’d like to also weigh in on the Sarah Jane Olson hijack. She is in trouble. I think a jail sentence at this stage serves nothing and if in the mix increases the likelyhood of her getting off easy. She should recieve **very** substantial monetary penalties and **very** restrictive probation. Let her be out and about, she has proven she can be a good citizen, but make sure she knows she is being punished for doing wrong and make sure she cannot profit from her situation. ---
**Author:** ![llamasex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bbce88/32.png) [@llamasex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/llamasex)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-so-much-for-two-straight-years-of-tax-rebates/97003/7 "2001-12-05T17:41:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hibbins \* > \*\ ***CnoteChris** > > > [@](#): > > > > When it all came down to it, more was given back than should have been spent. > > Returning _your_ money is not spending it! > > > [@](#): > > > > As far as I was concerned, too much was given back given the needs at the time. > > A little 20/20 hindsight. If the needs had remained the same as they were **at the time** there would be no shortfall. > > Furthemore, if there was so much _concern_ about a potential shortfall and such a _need_ for a “rainy day” fund, then budget cuts should have been made to allow for an adquate surplus even with the established return.\*\* Give me a fucking break, everyone with half a brain knew the porjections they used to base the tax cuts off of was bogus. ---
**Author:** ![llamasex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bbce88/32.png) [@llamasex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/llamasex)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-so-much-for-two-straight-years-of-tax-rebates/97003/8 "2001-12-05T17:41:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hibbins \* > \*\ ***CnoteChris** > > > [@](#): > > > > When it all came down to it, more was given back than should have been spent. > > Returning _your_ money is not spending it! > > > [@](#): > > > > As far as I was concerned, too much was given back given the needs at the time. > > A little 20/20 hindsight. If the needs had remained the same as they were **at the time** there would be no shortfall. > > Furthemore, if there was so much _concern_ about a potential shortfall and such a _need_ for a “rainy day” fund, then budget cuts should have been made to allow for an adquate surplus even with the established return.\*\* Give me a fucking break, everyone with half a brain knew the projections they used to base the tax cuts off of was bogus. ---
**Author:** ![Hibbins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ce73a5/32.png) [@Hibbins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hibbins)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-so-much-for-two-straight-years-of-tax-rebates/97003/9 "2001-12-05T17:59:58Z")
**llamasex** > [@](#): > > Give me a fucking break, everyone with half a brain knew the projections they used to base the tax cuts off of was bogus. First of all. Anger easily? :rolleyes: Secondly. Revisionist? Either the vast majority is “brainless” (it is Minnesota ;)) or a whole bunch of people voted for or publicly agreed with the proposed plan knowing full well it was _seriously_ flawed? Flawed it may have been, Seriously flawed? Not at the time. I should not have used “no” in conjunction with shortfall. I should have used “little”. Tell me this, what is the difference if the State kept $2 billion in taxpayer dollars for what if scenario’s or if the State returned it and asked for it as needed? The citizen would have “his” money to work for him in the interim, and the State would not be able to spend as frivolously. BFD we have a budget shortfall, oh boohoo, the world is gonna end. NOT! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-so-much-for-two-straight-years-of-tax-rebates/97003/10 "2001-12-05T18:11:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by friedo \* > \*\* > Yeah, there are proper times to do tax cuts and not to do them, but don’t ever try to convince me that my money is not mine. \*\* Isn’t this about rebates? That’s money they give back to you, isn’t it? When you pay for something and give the money to the merchant…is that money still yours? When you pay your mortgage and your other bills… is that money still yours? At what point exactly does money that was once yours but which has since been given to someone else for some purpose no longer become yours? Or is all the money you ever made still yours somehow? stoid ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-so-much-for-two-straight-years-of-tax-rebates/97003/11 "2001-12-05T18:19:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stoid \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by friedo \* > > \*\* > > Yeah, there are proper times to do tax cuts and not to do them, but don’t ever try to convince me that my money is not mine. \*\* > > Isn’t this about rebates? That’s money they give back to you, isn’t it? > > When you pay for something and give the money to the merchant…is that money still yours? When you pay your mortgage and your other bills… is that money still yours? > > At what point exactly does money that was once yours but which has since been given to someone else for some purpose no longer become yours? Or is all the money you ever made still yours somehow? > > stoid \*\* Because it never should have been taken from me in the first place. There’s a difference between voluntary payment for goods and services and forced extortion by the government. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-so-much-for-two-straight-years-of-tax-rebates/97003/12 "2001-12-05T18:20:42Z")
Woops - pressed Post too soon. My point is, when someone steals from you - which is what taxation is - the thing being stolen is still your property. ---
**Author:** ![Sweet\_Sota\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@Sweet\_Sota\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sweet_Sota_Girl)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-so-much-for-two-straight-years-of-tax-rebates/97003/13 "2001-12-05T18:21:10Z")
What disgusts me most as a Minnesotan is that due in part to this “surplus” being refunded, now we have a near $2 billion deficit. So the Gov. has decided to cut back where? Education. What’s he want to do? He wants buses to NOT pick up kids who live within 2 miles of the school. DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT IN 2 YEARS WHEN MY LITTLE GIRL STARTS KINDERGARTEN THAT I’D LET HER WALK 2 FUCKING MILES TO SCHOOL???!!! I’M A SINGLLE FT WORKING MOM, I SOMEHOW NOW HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET MY CHILD TO SCHOOL AND BACK WITHOUT BUS SERVICE?? YOU STUPID MOTHER FUCKING IDIOTS!!! Excuse me now while I publicly persecute myself for being one of the dumbasses who voted for that fucker! ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-so-much-for-two-straight-years-of-tax-rebates/97003/14 "2001-12-05T18:30:25Z")
Bullshit, **friedo**. Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. Taxation is _not_ extortion, and taxation is _not_ theft. Taxation is payment for services rendered. Now, you can argue all day long that your tax dollars are or are not being well-spent. That’s fine, and I’ll have your back for most of it. Well, maybe with a quick break for lunch. But your tax dollars pay for the services you use. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-so-much-for-two-straight-years-of-tax-rebates/97003/15 "2001-12-05T18:40:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Devil May Care \* > \*\*What disgusts me most as a Minnesotan is that due in part to this “surplus” being refunded, now we have a near $2 billion deficit. So the Gov. has decided to cut back where? Education. What’s he want to do? He wants buses to NOT pick up kids who live within 2 miles of the school. > > DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT IN 2 YEARS WHEN MY LITTLE GIRL STARTS KINDERGARTEN THAT I’D LET HER WALK 2 FUCKING MILES TO SCHOOL???!!! I’M A SINGLLE FT WORKING MOM, I SOMEHOW NOW HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET MY CHILD TO SCHOOL AND BACK WITHOUT BUS SERVICE??\*\* Well since you’ve got a two-year jump on the situation, start NOW at ensuring she’ll be enrolled in a school \> two miles distant. **kaylasdad99** who walks Michaela to kindergarten every day, because it’s two blocks away, and he does’t have a job now, so he probably has no room to talk. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Syzygy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syzygy)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-so-much-for-two-straight-years-of-tax-rebates/97003/16 "2001-12-05T18:41:44Z")
Yeah, the government steals from us. It takes our money and spends it on itself. None of that money goes towards programs and services that actually help us. :rolleyes: Do you want health care to be (more) astronomically expensive? Do you want roads, bridges and tunnels to fall apart from lack of maintenance? Do you want to deliver your own mail? Do you want to bring your own garbage to the landfill? Do you want to have nothing to support you when you retire? Paying taxes is necessary to maintain the quality of life we have. We Americans pay less in income taxes than almost any other country. And yet we want them to be lower. I refuse to view taxation as “extortion”. What we need to focus on is not “Government steals from us,” but rather “Government does not use efficiently the funds we are required to give them.” I do not like surrendering 25% of my gross income every year, but I realize, being a rational person, that taxes (unfortunate as they may be) are required. Look at **Devil May Care** ’s situation. Because we refuse to have higher taxes, other areas of life begin to suffer. You cannot eat your cake and have it too. And ignorant shit like that which has been posted in this thread doesn’t help a bit. And since I do not have the time or inclination to enter into a debate in the Pit, I will stop typing now. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-so-much-for-two-straight-years-of-tax-rebates/97003/17 "2001-12-05T18:44:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by andros \* > \*\*But your tax dollars pay for the services you use. \*\* Even the ones that you just keep on standby. ---
**Author:** ![DocHopper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@DocHopper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocHopper)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-so-much-for-two-straight-years-of-tax-rebates/97003/18 "2001-12-05T19:00:16Z")
In all fairness to the Gov, I think part of the premise of lowering property taxes was to let each individual school district determine how much to spend on education. Many school districts passed referendums this year to raise additional money for education, and will do well enough. Sucks to be in a district that voted “no” on their school referendums, though. Osseo parents can now look forward to four day school weeks and as was already mentioned, no buses for kids within two miles of the school- [http://www.channel4000.com/education/features/education-110355520011205-081250.html](http://www.channel4000.com/education/features/education-110355520011205-081250.html) No such thing as a free lunch… ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-so-much-for-two-straight-years-of-tax-rebates/97003/19 "2001-12-05T19:09:24Z")
> [@](#): > > Well since you’ve got a two-year jump on the situation, start NOW at ensuring she’ll be enrolled in a school \> two miles distant. It’s a shame, though, that she would have to _move_ to ensure that. ---
**Author:** ![Rysdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@Rysdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysdad)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-so-much-for-two-straight-years-of-tax-rebates/97003/20 "2001-12-05T19:13:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by imthjckaz \* > **I won’t be able to find a job that will pay something comparable to the one I lost, but I could still go to McDonalds, Burger King or KFC.** I’ll work the fryer if you’ll sweep the dining room. I’m sincerely hoping that they’ll allow unemployment bennies to be extended. I could be screwed otherwise. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thank-you-so-much-for-two-straight-years-of-tax-rebates/97003.md?page=2)