# Thanks a bunch Czarcasm **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 9, 2004, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-a-bunch-czarcasm/268321 "2004-10-09T03:26:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![SnakeSpirit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snakespirit/32/7271_2.png) [@SnakeSpirit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakeSpirit)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-a-bunch-czarcasm/268321/21 "2004-10-09T07:47:09Z")
Maybe a title change would help, like “Humble Opinions (not arguments) wanted on Presidential Debates” or something like that. When I came here, it was my impression that the mods were here to guide us. **Czarcasm** ’s action and subsequent post here about it does not seem like guidance, it looks like tyranny. “If you don’t like it, do it my way, or, too bad!” I suppose you could complain about the action: turn in a bad post report. (That’s that little square in the upper right hand corner of the screen.) I don’t know if there’s a way to complain about the actions of Mods; wish I did know. Some Mods here _are_ consistant, and gentle with posters. In fact most of the mods explain their actions in terms anyone can understand, don’t take sides, don’t discriminate against selected posters and offer options for changing things. A few others, don’t. Even Mods are human. ---
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-a-bunch-czarcasm/268321/22 "2004-10-09T08:45:23Z")
It does seem like it’s getting harder and harder to express an opinion around here without getting into a huge debate or winding up in the pit. I can deal with any forum here but when I ask for an opinion or would like to simply express one I’m not looking for a bunch of cites and/or foulmouths hijacking the thread. If I think IMHO that Bush is dishonest and Kerry is weak that is my opinion. Not just mine but lots of folks. I don’t need cites to corroborate my opinion. I don’t need cites from you either. I don’t trust Bush OR Kerry and no cites or barrage of profanity is going to change that. Because this was a political subject I can understand why (maybe) it was moved. This election has people on edge and practically every thread I’ve seen winds up in a damned fight. I think I’ll just quit starting any threads altogether. I’ll say this though…I wouldn’t want to have to moderate around here for the next month or so. It’s probably gonna get worse before it gets better. I know how ya feel **Otto** The thing is…I understand **Czarcasm’s** attempt to “nip it in the bud” or at least keep 'em all together. I thought about starting a similar thread myself but I’m tired of the crap some people feel obligated to bring to a thread they don’t like. Somebody (a mod) said recently? If you don’t like it, don’t read it. I can’t recall who at this time but he said a mouthful. BTW Kerry never did actually stand face in front of the camera and say (point blank) what the man asked him to. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-a-bunch-czarcasm/268321/23 "2004-10-09T10:33:36Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > If I’m interested in respectful exchange of ideas on controversial topics, I go to the place where I can find that sort of thread: The BBQ Pit. On the money! Often I’d rather post in BBQ where I don’t have to worry whether–gosh!–I might have flamed someone. Not having to worry means you can just relax and write. Also, the flames one gets here are surprisingly non-insulting. I just got flamed by **Brutus** for my beliefs re so-called paranormal phenomena. It merely tickles. I’m not going to hold a grudge. But sometimes the “flame-free” GD atmosphere can be genuinely psychically damaging. I don’t know what it is, but there you go. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-a-bunch-czarcasm/268321/24 "2004-10-09T11:33:29Z")
I don’t get it though. You’re willing to post to a thread in IMHO, but not in an **identical** thread because it’s in Great Debates? You know they only _call_ them rooms. They’re not real. You’re not actually walking into a room. Nobody’s going to mug you. If it’s a thread you’re interested in, what’s the difference if it’s in The Pit, Great Debates or The Pepper Room at Emeril’s BAM Message Boards? I mean if all else about the thread is equal except where it’s “located” … I don’t get it. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-a-bunch-czarcasm/268321/25 "2004-10-09T11:50:37Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > Thanks for locking down [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=279961). There’s a reason I started it in IMHO rather than GD. I don’t go into GD. I don’t _like_ GD. And I’m not the only one. There are I would be willing to bet a number of people who would like to discuss the debate in the more casual atmosphere of IMHO than the more hardcore GD atmosphere. So now the choices are either go into a forum they don’t like or not discuss the debate at all. > > Thanks for nothin’. Because, oooh, Great Debates is \* soooo \* scary. Sorry, no sympathy from me. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-a-bunch-czarcasm/268321/26 "2004-10-09T12:01:06Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > If I’m interested in respectful exchange of ideas on controversial topics, I go to the place where I can find that sort of thread: The BBQ Pit. And I thought it was just me. I was worrying a bit, because I’d been spending a lot of time here in the Pit and almost none in GD, although part of it’s because I’ve been tired of this election for some months now. I’ve read the same old arguments regarding Bush and Kerry more times than I can count, and they’ve lost what little interest they had. I find, too, I’m missing the good, old, religious dustups we had. Great Debates is, in my humble opinion ;), the toughest forum we have. It may be where I cut my teeth, but it’s not for amateurs. I don’t blame people for being nervous about venturing in there; it scares me sometimes, too! I’m interested in the opinions of people who don’t go wading into GD with a stack of cites, a pile of references, and arguments set in stone and handed down by God, Himself. 🙂 (This is an ironic reference which could apply to **Polycarp** and me.) I understand the rationale, but I was sorry to see the thread closed. CJ ---
**Author:** ![KSO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@KSO](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KSO)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-a-bunch-czarcasm/268321/27 "2004-10-09T12:40:16Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Speaking of voices, have you ever noticed there is a resemblance between John Kerry’s voice and [Jay’s](http://www.celebritybattles.com/celeb_pics/JasonMewes.jpg) of Silent Bob fame? Hmmm. I find Kerry’s voice more reminiscent of Ted Baxter. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-a-bunch-czarcasm/268321/28 "2004-10-09T13:29:23Z")
> [@](#): > > During this “slightly” heated election, it seems the mods have not got their act together on what is a debate, what is a pit, what is a humble opinion and what is mindless and pointless. OH, please. The Mods do have their acts together. It may not be as rigidly controlled as you’re implying you would like, but it suits us just fine. I’m going to interpret (kindly) that you’re trying to say that there is some ambiguity in the classifications. Damn right. We don’t WANT to have a 600 page document, rigidly defining each category, constantly updated by a full staff of 40 paralegals. The very nature of calling some things a “humble opinion” and some things “mundane” means that there is going to be some in-betweens. The Mods interpret based on the circumstances, much as the U.S. courts tackle discrimination cases based on the individual circumstances without trying to define rigidly what every possible discrimination case must look like. The Mods also are not around 24/7. That means that sometimes we need to react quickly, before responses are posted. Am I saying that no political thread can appear in IMHO? Certainly not. But I’m saying that your opening post looked like a debate opener (headed “Do I get to start the Pres debate round 2 thread?”), walked like a debate opener, and smelled like a debate opener. I’da done just what **Czarcasm** did, and so would any Mod. The thread that you say you wanted would have started with something like, “I don’t want a debate on the issues, I’d just like some random thoughts. I didn’t like Bush’s tie, and Kerry had nose hairs visible. Anyone else?” … and then it would have been clearly IMHO and left there. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. If we’re talking politics, and specifically Presidential Debates, then: - “How are the rules determined for the Presidential Debates?” belongs in General Questions - “Who won the Presidential Debate?” belongs in Great Debates - “If you taped the Presidential Debate and play it synchronized to Toscanini’s 1953 recording of the final movement of Beethoven’s Symphony #3, it fits perfectly!” belongs in Cafe Society. - “I had tickets and was sitting in row ZZ!” belongs in MPSIMS. - “I hate watching debates because they’re so confusing.” belongs in IMHO - “God, what assholes and liars these guys are!” belongs in the Pit. It’s not the topic per se, it’s the way the topic is presented and handled. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-a-bunch-czarcasm/268321/29 "2004-10-09T14:23:10Z")
> [@C K Dexter Haven](#): > > OH, please. The Mods do have their acts together. [sub]Damn. Now I gotta get my act together.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-a-bunch-czarcasm/268321/30 "2004-10-09T14:58:54Z")
> [@Ukulele Ike](#): > > [sub]Damn. Now I gotta get my act together.[/sub] I suggest Act II, Scene III from _Titus Andronicus_. It’s very tongue-out-of-cheek. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-a-bunch-czarcasm/268321/31 "2004-10-09T15:44:47Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > The first two years I was here, I **lived** in Great Debates. There was a thriving exchange of ideas and information there that illuminated issues that seemed important to the people engaged in posting. It was exhilarating and great fun. > > Now, I may participate in one or two threads there that happen to be on topics of interest to me – at least until they get hijacked by someone with a _bete noire_ to flog, no sense of humor, and a total lack of respect for the persons and intellectual capacities of anyone else in the thread. > > If I’m interested in respectful exchange of ideas on controversial topics, I go to the place where I can find that sort of thread: The BBQ Pit. > > And that last paragraph is, sadly, not a joke. In the one place where flaming is permissible, more people show respect for each other’s views, and are interested in dispassionate discussion of them, than anywhere else on the board. > > There’s more than a little irony in that phenomenon, but it does seem to be true. Complete agreement. I’ve stated that very thing before, and I’m glad that, now that you’ve stated it as well, people like Lissener who ridiculed me for the same thing will praise you. I might have blazed the trail, but you play a pretty pipe. ---
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-a-bunch-czarcasm/268321/32 "2004-10-09T16:08:59Z")
at least until they get hijacked by someone with a bete noire to flog :eek: Well now you know why _I’m_ wary of the GD. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-a-bunch-czarcasm/268321/33 "2004-10-09T16:36:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*_Liberal said:_ > I’ve stated that very thing before, and I’m glad that, now that you’ve stated it as well, people like Lissener who ridiculed me for the same thing will praise you. I might have blazed the trail, but you play a pretty pipe. Cite so we can start loving you, you magnificent bastard. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-a-bunch-czarcasm/268321/34 "2004-10-09T16:51:21Z")
> [@Jack Batty](#): > > I don’t get it though. You’re willing to post to a thread in IMHO, but not in an **identical** thread because it’s in Great Debates? Are you seriously suggesting that you see no tonal differences between threads posted in GD and posts on the same or similar topics posted in IMHO? Besides, had I posted the thread in GD it still would have been locked as a duplicate. As I said, there was a reason I posted it in the forum I did. And there was even precedent on my side. > [@Jack Finagle](#): > > Because, oooh, Great Debates is soooo scary. Did I use the word “scary,” fucker? Did I ask for or do I give a flaming shit about your "sympathy? > [@Dex](#): > > Am I saying that no political thread can appear in IMHO? Certainly not. But I’m saying that your opening post looked like a debate opener (headed “Do I get to start the Pres debate round 2 thread?”), walked like a debate opener, and smelled like a debate opener. I’da done just what Czarcasm did, and so would any Mod. Then you and any other Mod would be equally wrong in the face of allowing the thread on the first debate to stand. How is my OP > [@](#): > > I usually don’t bother with these “debates” but I had nothing much else to do tonight so I tuned in. Some random thoughts: > > Bush’s voice grates on me. He sounds whiny and pinched and his voice tightens up when he responds, which makes him sound more defensive than he intends. > > Neither of them answered the questions they were asked. Kerry seemed worse at this than Bush did but that might be because of Bush’s habit of repeating exactly the same words as if repetition makes them more true or something. > > Bush’s inability to admit to an actual mistake (that he’s willing to identify without fear of “embarassing” the appointee) is horrifying. > > I know I’ll sleep better tonight knowing that should Bush have the opportunity to appoint a Supreme Court justice that he’ll only appoint one who thinks Dred Scott was wrongly decided. differ so much from \*\*Meatros’ OP > [@](#): > > I did a search and didn’t find the topic I’m about to bring up posted anywhere, so I’m posting it here. > > Who do you think won the debate last night? I’m not asking who do you think was _right_ or who would make a better President, just who do you think won the debate. > > Personally, I think Kerry won. Early in Bush was performing poorly in my opinion. It seemed as though he was going to lose his composure, but he didn’t, so kuddos to him. > > Additionally what I thought hamstrung Bush is his harping on Kerry’s ‘flip-flopping’. The reason why this hamstrung Bush is because I thought, over all, that Kerry was pretty unambigious, which takes the wind out of Bush’s sails out of this criticism of Bush’s. > > Now I realize that Kerry has changed his mind a lot in the past, and will probably do so in the future; again, I’m only talking about the debate. > > I thought that Bush had a few opportunities that he didn’t take. I would have like to hear him talk more about our successful missions without appearing flustered. One thing that was good about Bush is that he seemed more emotionally involved-which also did hurt him. > > I thought that Kerry came off as being very well informed and decisive. Whether he sticks to his guns is another question. Additionally I thought he did well when Bush attempted to nail him by pointing out that Kerry initially supported the idea that Iraq was a threat. > > In summary, I thought Kerry looked calmer, more collected, and better prepared. I think that Bush seriously needs to work on his skills for the next debate. > > So what do you think? that one must be locked down 30 minutes after being opened and the other is still open and active a week later? And I’m sorry but this > [@Dex](#): > > The thread that you say you wanted would have started with something like, “I don’t want a debate on the issues, I’d just like some random thoughts. I didn’t like Bush’s tie, and Kerry had nose hairs visible. Anyone else?” … and then it would have been clearly IMHO and left there. is not only completely ridiculous but false on its face in light of the 9/30 debate thread. But fine, if it will get the thread opened, please feel free to edit my post and stick the words “in my opinion” and “don’t want debate” and “nose hairs” into it at your discretion, or else I can repost the thread and add a nose hair component if you’d like. Or you could just acknowledge that locking the thread was maybe a bit premature? ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-a-bunch-czarcasm/268321/35 "2004-10-09T16:53:51Z")
GD is the domain of the people who survived being fragged by their own troops in Vietnam. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-a-bunch-czarcasm/268321/36 "2004-10-09T17:37:53Z")
> [@](#): > > If this has been a common reaction, perhaps the GD moderators might be approached to consider tightening the screws a bit in GD? So it’s not just me! Bring back the civilized debate! By placing his thread in IMHO, I think that **Otto** was giving us a reasonably good clue about the level of discussion that he wanted from us. Along with several others, I would have felt more comfortable expressing my opinion _there_. I assume that **Czarcasm** didn’t consider the possible benefits of a 2nd thread with a different purpose and that’s understandable. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-a-bunch-czarcasm/268321/37 "2004-10-09T17:48:09Z")
Maybe the appropriate mod response would have been to add a note to the OP: **Mod’s Note:** Please remember we are in IMHO, there is a similar thread in GD [link] for your more heated and cite laiden posts. The BBQ Pit is also always available. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-a-bunch-czarcasm/268321/38 "2004-10-09T18:29:50Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > Are you seriously suggesting that you see no tonal differences between threads posted in GD and posts on the same or similar topics posted in IMHO? What sort of “tonal difference” were you hoping for? A topic is a topic. A thread is a thread. The thread you started was identical to the thread in GD. If I see a thread in GQ about how many zip codes there are in Colorado, but I “just don’t like GQ,” should I start a new thread in the Pit because I want to say, “fuck” when I answer the question? Suck it up man. If you want to wade into the thread, wade. Who gives a shit which forum it’s in. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-a-bunch-czarcasm/268321/39 "2004-10-09T18:38:52Z")
> [@](#): > > _Jack Batty:_ > Who gives a shit which forum it’s in. The mods apparently. I’m puzzled that you don’t get how a subject can be discussed differently in a different forum. Are you just trying to prove what a rugged roll-with-the-punches intellectual you are? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-a-bunch-czarcasm/268321/40 "2004-10-09T18:45:42Z")
The threads were identical. Read the thread in GQ. Imagine it in IMHO. Fits, don’t it? People just need to stop being so fucking whiny about … “ooh you mean old mod you closed my thread.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-a-bunch-czarcasm/268321.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-a-bunch-czarcasm/268321.md?page=3)