# Thanks FIA, for finally taking F1 away from us fans. **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 17, 2009, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-fia-for-finally-taking-f1-away-from-us-fans/489802 "2009-03-17T20:58:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![J-P\_L](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/j-p_l/32/3156_2.png) [@J-P\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/J-P_L)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-fia-for-finally-taking-f1-away-from-us-fans/489802/21 "2009-03-19T19:22:21Z")
A more sensible change would have been to give more points for a win. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-fia-for-finally-taking-f1-away-from-us-fans/489802/22 "2009-03-19T19:41:16Z")
What the heck is a Brawn? Ross Brawn has his own team now? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-fia-for-finally-taking-f1-away-from-us-fans/489802/23 "2009-03-19T20:05:33Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > What the heck is a Brawn? Ross Brawn has his own team now? Yep, he does. Honda quit F-1 but they left the project in his hands – obviously a fair choice as he’d been working on it for quite some time and the end product, so far, is awesome. Although he is obviously looking for sponsors thus some are questioning the real speed of the car as it has been by far the fastest during the test season – up to 3/4 of a sec faster per lap than anyone else. If true speed in racing trim, they could run away with the title in no time. Might have to do with the new diffuser ‘rule’ I read about this morning. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-fia-for-finally-taking-f1-away-from-us-fans/489802/24 "2009-03-19T20:09:17Z")
PS-Coke and Pepsi are both rumored to be interested in becomimng main sponsors. As you can [see here](http://img.worldcarfans.com/2009/3/large/brawn-gp-f1-car---jenson-button_1.jpg) the car has no livery to date. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-fia-for-finally-taking-f1-away-from-us-fans/489802/25 "2009-03-19T20:14:49Z")
Who is providing the engines? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-fia-for-finally-taking-f1-away-from-us-fans/489802/26 "2009-03-19T20:21:13Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Who is providing the engines? [**Mercedes-Benz**](http://www.indiamotorsports.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=264:honda-gets-life-as-ross-brawn-steps-in-with-brawn-gp&catid=36:formula-1&Itemid=68) ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-fia-for-finally-taking-f1-away-from-us-fans/489802/27 "2009-03-19T21:21:17Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > But it also appears, from a pdf I read earlier, that the diffusers on the Brawn, Toyota and Williams will be made illegal. I don’t think that’s entirely accurate - it’s more that, as with many new regulations, there’s a dispute between teams who followed the letter of the law and those who are alleged to have been somewhat crafty in their interpretation. This isn’t really new (think back to previous years’ regs on movable aerodynamic elements), and is just something that’ll come out in the wash. If it’s a contentious interpretation and something that confers a significant performance advantage, then yeah, it’s won’t be too surprising if the FIA lean towards the side of the conservative interpretation. It’s a technical competition, after all, not a parsing one. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-fia-for-finally-taking-f1-away-from-us-fans/489802/28 "2009-03-19T21:29:00Z")
> [@Dead\_Badger](#): > > …(think back to previous years’ regs on movable aerodynamic elements)… I haven’t followed F1 much lately. What were the crafty interpretations? (I’ve always thought movable aerodynamics would be an intriguing idea for racing. I can think of at least two cars that tried it, but it seems to have been squashed by the sanctioning groups for decades.) ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-fia-for-finally-taking-f1-away-from-us-fans/489802/29 "2009-03-19T21:39:45Z")
I’ve dropped my former fanhood since the USGP tire fiasco, and the realization that Ecclestone and Mosley really weren’t interested in making me interested. But it’s gotten worse with the trend toward standardization of cars and engines. A big part of the fun was the heterogeneity of the engineering approaches, looking at the different design strategies and different technologies the teams were using, finding different ways to Go Fast. The early Aero years were just great, with all the moving skirts and fans and 6-wheel configs that were simply made illegal. That’s now as far gone in F1 as it has been for years in NASCAR or Indy. They’re all the same, and the teams aren’t even allowed to tweak them enough to matter. The drivers aren’t much fun to watch because they’re all pretty homogeneous too. Even the races are just processions - the fastest starters are the fastest finishers. This year’s snowplow-styled cars are just ugly, too. So what’s the hook for fans anymore? Are they still going to just tell us that it’s a privilege to be in the very vicinity of The Greatest Racers and Cars in the World? Screw 'em. I’m gonna find me a dirt track. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-fia-for-finally-taking-f1-away-from-us-fans/489802/30 "2009-03-19T22:31:49Z")
**DeadBadger** , yes, sure, I am well aware of the gamesmanship – if not to say outright cheating – that have occurred over the years. The so-called ‘moving floor’ on the Ferrari in '07 and/or the weight distribution (ballast) on the '05 Renault floorboard come quickly to mind. So yes, you are correct in saying that FIA tends to rule on the conservative side of parsing. Moreover, the diffusers on the cars mentioned had already been questioned openly by people such as [Briatore](http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/090311165023.shtml) – even if he doesn’t mention the teams, it’s an open secret for anyone following winter testing. So I acknowledge that my footnote wasn’t precise. However my intention was to somewhat clarify what Shummi was saying in the quote above it. Point being that this season is full of changes (aero packages, engine rules, slicks, Kers and so forth) and its rather late in the game for FIA to come out with a bunch of new specs for teams that until now, where in fact, working under the new FIA regs. It just so happens that we now have new, new FIA regs just before the season opens. So some teams will, conceivably, have to spend all kinds of money on R&D that is outside their alloted budgets. That’s the part that many are questioning, that the regulating body of the world’s most expensive sport appears to be fumbling in the dark at the expense of the fans and the teams. In fact, Trulli (yeah, I know, not exactly a heavy-weight of the sport) has already suggested they – newly formed [FOTA](http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=45283) which is certainly not happy with the events – has their own break-aways series. I’m no visionary but I don’t need to be to know that many, many people are both befuddled and angry with the seemingly out of touch FIA. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-fia-for-finally-taking-f1-away-from-us-fans/489802/31 "2009-03-19T22:38:21Z")
Wow, I didn’t see **Elvis’** post as I was looking for cites for mine – but see? His attitude exemplifies that of many fans (ex?) that F-1 cannot afford to lose if it is going to survive the current crisis. Sadly, he makes some good points as well. Bernie and Mosley (why he’s still boss after the Nazihookergate is beyond me) are hurting the sport. Both are too old and out of touch. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-fia-for-finally-taking-f1-away-from-us-fans/489802/32 "2009-03-19T22:41:44Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I haven’t followed F1 much lately. What were the crafty interpretations? I’m going from memory, but I think Ferrari had a rear wing design which, when tested while stationary, conformed with the position limits, but under load deformed into a non-conformant (but better-performing) position. So it wasn’t moving under control (which was definitely banned), but it was cunningly designed so that the aerodynamic forces moved it into an optimal position. Which is pretty crafty indeed. 🙂 No cite I’m afraid - F1 news for some reason is more susceptible than most to being subscription only. **ElvisL1ves** , I think you’re being partially hasty. I entirely agree with you that Bernie and Mosley have no-one’s interests but their own at heart, and I can certainly see how any US fan would be put off for life by the Michelin disaster. That said, I think this year could still be pretty interesting. They’ve finally (finally!) implemented the rules decreasing aero sensitivity and increasing mechanical grip that people have been requesting for years, and it really could make a difference to overtaking. The new scoring rules are ridiculous, certainly, and I think are more to do with Bernie letting people know who’s boss than any actual concern for the validity of the Championship. But even last season we were afforded one of the most dramatic finishes in living memory, and this year the pack looks to have been further shuffled - we could see a privateer team leading the pack for the first time in decades. Of course, it could all turn into a procession from race 1, but I reckon it’s at least worth checking out the first couple of races. Returning to the OP and the wins system, I’d just like to say that the argument about giving a greater incentive to overtake is particularly stupid - these teams spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to gain a tenth of a second; is Bernie really telling me they’re not overtaking because they can’t be bothered? Poppycock. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-fia-for-finally-taking-f1-away-from-us-fans/489802/33 "2009-03-19T22:50:18Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > So some teams will, conceivably, have to spend all kinds of money on R&D that is outside their alloted budgets. Well yeah, but I think this is a risk they deliberately run. If you take a, ahem, “finessed” interpretation of the rules, you run the risk that your interpretation will be invalidated late in the game. I’m not sure that really counts as the FIA introducing new regs, any more than case law is equivalent to legislation. Ross Brawn is undoubtedly very smart at spotting little loopholes in the regs, but I’m similarly sure he’s hedged his position in case the FIA rule against him. No flies on that man. I do agree entirely with regards to the new points system, but this induces no change in technical strategy, only in race strategy, and thus comes at a lower cost. It’s still silly, certainly, but it’s not quite the same as saying “oh, your wings have to be smaller” two weeks before the season starts. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-fia-for-finally-taking-f1-away-from-us-fans/489802/34 "2009-03-19T22:58:47Z")
**DB** , once more, I am not really disagreeing with your main point…but these are new regs introduced in the last possible minute! See for yourself (FIA site opens again, new regs in pink on pdf links) [**Specific regulations**](http://www.fia.com/en-GB/sport/regulations/Pages/FIAFormulaOneWorldChampionship.aspx) ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-fia-for-finally-taking-f1-away-from-us-fans/489802/35 "2009-03-19T23:15:21Z")
Ah, okay, cheers for the link - but are those completely new or just clarified segments? Not contradicting you, just curious, as some of the pink segments seem far too broad to be brand new. If they are, then I certainly agree, this is crazy lateness. It’d be nice to see a diff between this and the previous version, really (not that I expect you to find such a thing - I don’t think the FIA are that technically adept 🙂 ). ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-fia-for-finally-taking-f1-away-from-us-fans/489802/36 "2009-03-20T19:10:28Z")
**DB** , not an engineer here – hell, other than fueling my car and checking oil and fuses, not much else I know on that end – and the differences appears to be small enough that it’d take one to explain it. OTOH, I believe I have good news concerning the OP. [FOTA](http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=45299) filed a formal protest and called them out at their own game (read link for details). It appears that was FIA was attempting to do with the new scoring system is illegal as it went against rules in their own charter – if that’s not embarrassing to them, I don’t know what is. Anyway, things are moving fast but check-out the new statement on FIA’s website: [FIA Formula One World Championship](http://fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/pressreleases/f1releases/2009/Pages/f1_points.aspx) > [@](#): > > On 17 March, the FIA World Motor Sport Council unanimously rejected FOTA’s proposed amendment to the points system for the Formula One Drivers’ Championship. The ‘winner takes all’ proposal made by the commercial rights holder (who had been told that the teams were in favour) was then approved. > > If, for any reason, the Formula One teams do not now agree with the new system, its implementation will be deferred until 2010. Buffoons. I mean “if”? What you see in this minuscule thread is fairly representative of the overwhelming dislike (uproar more like it) that followed amongst drivers, owners and fans alike – including at least two or three online petitions that gathered over 50,000 sigs over the past what? Two three days. And they say “if”? Please. :rolleyes: On to the Australian GP it is. I am not a betting man, but should the engines hold, Brawn appears to have 3 or 4 tenths over the other top teams. So seeing Button and/or Barrichello on podium wouldn’t be a surprise. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-fia-for-finally-taking-f1-away-from-us-fans/489802/37 "2009-03-20T19:21:51Z")
Breaking: [After teams object, Formula One returns to points system](http://www.usatoday.com/sports/motor/formula1/2009-03-20-teams-challenge_N.htm) The End. ---
**Author:** ![History\_Geek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b19c9b/32.png) [@History\_Geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/History_Geek)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-fia-for-finally-taking-f1-away-from-us-fans/489802/38 "2009-03-20T23:32:39Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Breaking: [After teams object, Formula One returns to points system](http://www.usatoday.com/sports/motor/formula1/2009-03-20-teams-challenge_N.htm) > > The End. This gives FIA a whole year to hash out something more agreeable. A better scaled points system seems to be the way to go. As a new F1 fan, I’m excited to see the beginning of the season. I’ve gotten the understanding that a lot has been changed in terms of car design (especially the introduction of KERS) and testing & budget limits from last season’s rules. At least I don’t have to absorb a new scoring system at the last minute! ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2009, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-fia-for-finally-taking-f1-away-from-us-fans/489802/39 "2009-03-21T02:19:27Z")
Welcome aboard the F-1 train, **History Geek**! I too, am a fairly newcomer to F-1. It was Alonso that got me into the sport as did a ton of others. Prior to that, even if we’ve had GPs going back to the seventies at Jarama (and my Dad, who was indeed a fan, took me a couple of times), I just didn’t have much interest. But now? I believe GP weekends are the only time I actually look forward to waking-up (or not going to bed in some cases) at insanely early morning hours. IMHO, the past four seasons had a bit of everything to get people hooked on the sport. And by keeping the points system as is (though I like FOTA’s more aggressive scoring a bit better), this one should be a scorcher as well. BTW, you are certainly correct w/regards to the KERs system. Should boost the cars about 70 HP when engaged. So that along with all the aero changes, just might make for even closer racing. The supposedly increased overtaking I am not so sure about – judging by the [width of the front spoilers](http://images.itv-f1.com/ImageLibrary/51438_2.jpg), we might get a lot of touches instead. Anyway, few as we might be here, if interested, we can certainly open a thread and follow/comment throughout season. ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2009, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-fia-for-finally-taking-f1-away-from-us-fans/489802/40 "2009-03-21T13:04:50Z")
It’s a little bit easier - or rather, less frustrating - for UK fans to follow this year. For the first time since 1997 (I think) there will be nobody saying “We’ll be back - after the break.” And bring back The Chain! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-fia-for-finally-taking-f1-away-from-us-fans/489802.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-fia-for-finally-taking-f1-away-from-us-fans/489802.md?page=3)