# Thanks lissener, maybe I should just quit the SDMB altogether **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 30, 2003, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-lissener-maybe-i-should-just-quit-the-sdmb-altogether/210357 "2003-10-30T01:41:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-lissener-maybe-i-should-just-quit-the-sdmb-altogether/210357/161 "2003-10-31T18:41:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bone \* > \*\*. . . since I believe there are elements of homosexuality that are environmental/choice oriented, **Lissener** brands me an ignorant, irrational homophobe. \*\* Cite? ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-lissener-maybe-i-should-just-quit-the-sdmb-altogether/210357/162 "2003-10-31T18:48:44Z")
I actually am sort of confused. **lissener** , a gay man who (I’m assuming here) has had to deal with hatred, prejudice, bigotry and general ignorance his whole life has ran out of patience and has basically said “Fine - you wanna be bigots - be my guest - I’m tired of your rhetoric.” and somehow he’s the bad guy? Very confusing. FWIW - I understand exactly what you’re saying **lissener** and tend to agree with your stance. It’s not your job to enlighten people, it’s your job to live your life and bravo for doing so. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-lissener-maybe-i-should-just-quit-the-sdmb-altogether/210357/163 "2003-10-31T18:55:33Z")
Cite? I said this oh…11 posts back, with a link to where you said it. > [@](#): > > ## This is how you defined homophobia in this [thread:](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=219286) quote: > > ## [homophobe defined as]…anyone…who thinks homosexuality is a chosen behavior… In this very thread: > [@](#): > > No, it is not logically possible the believe that homosexuality is a choice, in the face of all available information–anecdotal and otherwise–except in the sense that “anything is possible.” To cling to such an “opinion” is ludicrous and irrational, … > [@](#): > > Ignoring overwhelming evidence because of personal prejudice is irrational. It is exactly contempt, and it is born of fear. Homophobe is the only word to describe bone’s position. I couldn’t find the “ignorant” comment, so I retract that portion of my statement. It seems I attributed that to you when other’s said it. Apologies for that. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-lissener-maybe-i-should-just-quit-the-sdmb-altogether/210357/164 "2003-10-31T19:09:48Z")
You missed this one, which I wrote in response to _you_, but you chose to ignore: > [@](#): > > . . . I’m not claiming that it’s entirely genetic, so that won’t work either. I’m perfectly comfortable with the current state of knowledge on the subject, that it’s a complex interaction of genes and environment, with a little mystery thrown in. THat still doesn’t change the fact that it’s not anything that I have ever chosen. ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-lissener-maybe-i-should-just-quit-the-sdmb-altogether/210357/165 "2003-10-31T19:18:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by alice\_in\_wonderland \* > \*\*I actually am sort of confused. > > **lissener** , a gay man who (I’m assuming here) has had to deal with hatred, prejudice, bigotry and general ignorance his whole life has ran out of patience and has basically said “Fine - you wanna be bigots - be my guest - I’m tired of your rhetoric.” and somehow he’s the bad guy? > > Very confusing. FWIW - I understand exactly what you’re saying **lissener** and tend to agree with your stance. It’s not your job to enlighten people, it’s your job to live your life and bravo for doing so. \*\* Yeah, count me as not getting this either. It really seems like folks are asking for more patience than is reasonable. How many times should we expect someone to have the same conversation with the same results before they say the hell with it? ---
**Author:** ![ResIpsaLoquitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b3f665/32.png) [@ResIpsaLoquitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ResIpsaLoquitor)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-lissener-maybe-i-should-just-quit-the-sdmb-altogether/210357/166 "2003-10-31T19:29:47Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Mr. B_ > I’m a little surprised by your attitude toward the possibility of adoption for you and your future wife, though; I hope it was just an off-hand comment. Unlike you, I’m not particularly devout, but I would feel a definite galvanizing force from my god, should it ever strike me sterile. > > Your statement about “the pain of adoption” has me puzzled. It seems a little extreme. Oh, shoot…what I meant was, we’d adopt and deal with the pain of not being able to have our own biological children. I didn’t mean to say that adoption would be (per se) painful; I was referring to the disastrous feelings of not being able to have kids of one’s own. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-lissener-maybe-i-should-just-quit-the-sdmb-altogether/210357/167 "2003-10-31T19:47:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Binarydrone \* > \*\*Yeah, count me as not getting this either. It really seems like folks are asking for more patience than is reasonable. How many times should we expect someone to have the same conversation with the same results before they say the hell with it? \*\* Thanks. See, everybody? I _AM_ educating. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-lissener-maybe-i-should-just-quit-the-sdmb-altogether/210357/168 "2003-10-31T19:48:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by alice\_in\_wonderland \* > \*\ ***lissener** , a gay man who (I’m assuming here) has had to deal with hatred, prejudice, bigotry and general ignorance his whole life has ran out of patience and has basically said “Fine - you wanna be bigots - be my guest - I’m tired of your rhetoric.” and somehow he’s the bad guy? > \*\* No, he’s taken to spewing crap at everyone under the guise of “be my guest,” then being offended when he’s called on spewing crap at allies of his cause, because they aren’t allies enough or something. But if he wants to hurt gay people, he can go right ahead. People like him make me not care at all about gay rights, and i am not the only one. And turning people off of an issue is a hell of a lot easier than turning them on. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-lissener-maybe-i-should-just-quit-the-sdmb-altogether/210357/169 "2003-10-31T19:51:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tars Tarkas \* > **. . . People like him make me not care at all about gay rights . . .** That makes you a homophobe. A homophobe with a convenient excuse, but a homophobe nonetheless. Blaming me for your not caring at all about gay rights is the rankest bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-lissener-maybe-i-should-just-quit-the-sdmb-altogether/210357/170 "2003-10-31T19:53:40Z")
yes, i’m such a homophobe i live in fucking San Francisco and am going partying tonight in Castro with all the gay people. Damn homophobes like me that go partying with gays. Damn them to hell! You fucking moron. You stab all gay men in the back with each post you type here. ---
**Author:** ![g8rguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7cd45c/32.png) [@g8rguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/g8rguy)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-lissener-maybe-i-should-just-quit-the-sdmb-altogether/210357/171 "2003-10-31T19:58:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Binarydrone \* > \*\*Yeah, count me as not getting this either. It really seems like folks are asking for more patience than is reasonable. How many times should we expect someone to have the same conversation with the same results before they say the hell with it? \*\* Sure, and that much is okay; he has no need of tolerating or accepting the idiocy of others, he should not be expected to patiently fight ignorance. It’s not his job. He _should_, however, be expected to behave in a civil manner to those who behave in a civil manner to him. Is that really so difficult to understand? ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-lissener-maybe-i-should-just-quit-the-sdmb-altogether/210357/172 "2003-10-31T19:59:07Z")
**Tars** , I used to have a friend. She’s a racist and a bigot. She believes that the people being held in Guantanamo Bay don’t deserve a minimum level of human rights as prescribed by the Geneva Convention, because they’re not white. I’ve known her for a long time. She has consistently spewed things like that. I have corrected her again and again. She doesn’t get it. A few months ago I quit returning her calls. She’s left messages demanding an explanation. I’m refusing to engage her anymore. Nothing that I could say to her on the issue is going to change her mind, and frankly I’m tired of wasting my breath. Should I have the misfortune to see her, I would tell her that she’s an idiot. Guess what? It doesn’t mater. If I call her an idiot or try to educate her about her ignorance, she persists with her bigoted behaviour. She is not worth my time. If that means I’m spewing crap, so be it. Do you see my point? At all? ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-lissener-maybe-i-should-just-quit-the-sdmb-altogether/210357/173 "2003-10-31T20:00:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tars Tarkas \* > \*\*yes, i’m such a homophobe i live in fucking San Francisco and am going partying tonight in Castro with all the gay people. Damn homophobes like me that go partying with gays. Damn them to hell! \*\* Yeah, some of my best friends are faggots. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tars Tarkas \* > \*\*You fucking moron. You stab all gay men in the back with each post you type here. \*\* Just because I won’t let YOU dictate the terms of this debate? If there’s any of my ass left over after Mr. B is done with it, it has your name on it. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-lissener-maybe-i-should-just-quit-the-sdmb-altogether/210357/174 "2003-10-31T20:02:22Z")
Tars, he never said, “Be my guest.” He said he’s going to fight tooth and nail for his rights. Who can blame him? Turn the tables for a second and see what your reaction would be. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-lissener-maybe-i-should-just-quit-the-sdmb-altogether/210357/175 "2003-10-31T20:05:16Z")
And FWIW, I don’t consider spewing hateful, crap civil behaviour, irrespective of how politely it’s worded. If someone says to me, in a calm and even tone that “In their humble opinion, gays are all going to burn in hell because of their sins.”, they’re not being civil - they’re being an asshole. I will gladly tell them as much. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-lissener-maybe-i-should-just-quit-the-sdmb-altogether/210357/176 "2003-10-31T20:07:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by g8rguy \* > \*\*Sure, and that much is okay; he has no need of tolerating or accepting the idiocy of others, he should not be expected to patiently fight ignorance. It’s not his job. > > He _should_, however, be expected to behave in a civil manner to those who behave in a civil manner to him. Is that really so difficult to understand? \*\* I agree 100%. As long we agree that this–[ul] “Respectfully, lissener, I don’t mind homosexuals as long as they don’t display their homosexuality in public. Frankly, I love going to the gay bars–they have the best music!–but ultimately, my religion teaches me that, as sad as it sincerely makes me to say so, you will go to hell unless you abstain, or repent of your sins. I’m sorry, but that’s just my opinion.”[/ul] –is not a “civil” statement. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-lissener-maybe-i-should-just-quit-the-sdmb-altogether/210357/177 "2003-10-31T20:09:06Z")
Oips. Alice beat me to it. ---
**Author:** ![Svt4Him](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@Svt4Him](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svt4Him)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-lissener-maybe-i-should-just-quit-the-sdmb-altogether/210357/178 "2003-10-31T20:09:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by alice\_in\_wonderland \* > \*\*I actually am sort of confused. > > **lissener** , a gay man who (I’m assuming here) has had to deal with hatred, prejudice, bigotry and general ignorance his whole life has ran out of patience and has basically said “Fine - you wanna be bigots - be my guest - I’m tired of your rhetoric.” and somehow he’s the bad guy? > > Very confusing. FWIW - I understand exactly what you’re saying **lissener** and tend to agree with your stance. It’s not your job to enlighten people, it’s your job to live your life and bravo for doing so. \*\* Well, maybe I can shed some light on why this is not correct. If I’ve had a problem with a certain group of people’s beliefs, and they’ve not been nice to me, then does it make it right for me to not be nice to anyone who I’d brand as being from that certain group of people? Of course not. Otherwise I could justify any wrong treatment of women as acceptable, as I had a woman do this, or I could justify any wrong treatment of cops because I saw a cop do this. As for his running out of patience, that would be true if someone like me, who is seen as an enemy, were to start threads attacking him. But it seems to be the other way around. Is it then wrong for anyone who doesn’t agree with him to, who is also tired to dealing with hatred, prejudice, and general ignorance to act the same way? And if he’s tired of dealing with these bigots, then what would want to make him to start a thread baiting these bigots? You may want to insulate yourself from them, not isolate or alienate, as then no one is able to understand the points made. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-lissener-maybe-i-should-just-quit-the-sdmb-altogether/210357/179 "2003-10-31T20:13:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kalhoun \* > \*\*Tars, he never said, “Be my guest.” He said he’s going to fight tooth and nail for his rights. Who can blame him? Turn the tables for a second and see what your reaction would be. \*\* He’s not fighting tooth and nail, he’s fragging his own troops. And you’re applauding him for it. Acting like this accomplishes nothing of value and i would not waste my time with it. Homophobe has been thrown around on this board so often it is meaningless, and i am proud to have been called on in this thread, as it means i don’t follow **lissener** ’s fucked up view of life. Oh, boo-hoo, life isn’t perfect. Attacking pro-gay people because they think you are going about your efforts the wrong way is not the way to do things. **lissener** ’s posts in this thread are why there will NOT be gay marriage for another 50 years, idiots like him make the swing people pissed off enough they’ll vote it down out of spite. As that seems to be his goal, i can only assume he is either a straight troll or very fucking stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Svt4Him](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@Svt4Him](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svt4Him)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-lissener-maybe-i-should-just-quit-the-sdmb-altogether/210357/180 "2003-10-31T20:24:49Z")
Oops, incomplete sentance: …doesn’t agree with him to be rude and condescending, who is… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-lissener-maybe-i-should-just-quit-the-sdmb-altogether/210357.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-lissener-maybe-i-should-just-quit-the-sdmb-altogether/210357.md?page=10)