# Thanks Obama (ACA) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 5, 2014, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-obama-aca/685443 "2014-04-05T23:32:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2014, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-obama-aca/685443/21 "2014-04-06T17:19:12Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > No fair. Lot of really smart people can’t find work. Tighty righty assholes love that theme, that if you can’t find work, you must be stupid or lazy. Let’s not help them, even in the service of snarkasm. I get your point but they are not the ones blaming it all on Obama. It’s the thinking that if there is something wrong it must be Obama’s fault that annoys me. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2014, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-obama-aca/685443/22 "2014-04-06T17:36:36Z")
> [@R.P.McMurphy](#): > > It’s the thinking that if there is something wrong it must be Obama’s fault that annoys me. That kind of thinking (and it can apply to any president) keeps the Secret Service up at night. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2014, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-obama-aca/685443/23 "2014-04-06T17:44:17Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > I then went for a Hail Mary trying to get some kind of benefit and scheduled an appointment with a psychiatrist to at least get a stock of my meds. (Bipolar with Major Depressive Disorder.) Guess what? Can’t do it without a $40 copay and whatever the meds will cost. And what would you have done before? Did you ever try to get insurance on your own? If so, you would have found that most insurance companies would not cover you, and those that would would charge very high rates but not cover your depression because they consider it a pre-existing condition. Then if you got really sick, they would drop you from the plan. I’m sure you’re not happy about having to pay a premium now, but at least you have a reasonable level of costs for your care. Before the ACA, you would have had many fewer options and they would have cost much more. Have you thought about moving to a state which would allow you to be added to their Medicare plans? I know that’s more money you don’t have, but if you could move then you wouldn’t have to worry about your health so much. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2014, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-obama-aca/685443/24 "2014-04-06T17:45:47Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > Well yeah under a Republican President anyone motivated can pull themselves up by their bootstraps and be a millionaire in no time, don’t ya know. If you’re poor under a Republican President it’s because you are lazy and morally destitute. You just need to stop being poor. Yep, heard this on TV. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2014, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-obama-aca/685443/25 "2014-04-06T20:09:16Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Unless he’s moved in the last year or so, i believe the OP is in Wisconsin. > > Maybe Scott Walker will be willing to help him. Walker is well known for his sympathy towards the plight of the poor. Is he? I thought that was Paul Ryan. Can’t tell the Wisconsinites without a scorecard.\* (Not that either of them actually want to do anything besides show sympathy, and then take away any benefits so that they’re properly motivated to find jobs that don’t exist. But you knew that already.) - A scorecard, courtesy of the excellent Charles P. Pierce: **Paul Ryan:** the zombie-eyed granny starver from Wisconsin and First Runner-Up in our most recent Vice Presidential Pageant. **Scott Walker:** the goggle-eyed homunculus hired by Koch Industries to manage its midwest subsidiary formerly known as the state of Wisconsin. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2014, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-obama-aca/685443/26 "2014-04-06T20:22:50Z")
> [@R.P.McMurphy](#): > > I get your point but they are not the ones blaming it all on Obama. It’s the thinking that if there is something wrong it must be Obama’s fault that annoys me. You’ve got that the wrong way around, I’m afraid. The President is _already_ at fault 24 hours a day-It is the naysayers’ job to find events for him to be at fault _with_. It is the right-wing equivalent to Christians’ “God is the Answer to everything!” ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2014, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-obama-aca/685443/27 "2014-04-06T20:45:31Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Couldn’t agree more. OP should pull himself up by his own bootstraps, go out and get a degree in chemistry and pharmacology and manufacture his own damn meds. > > **Happy Fun Ball** here is known to have removed his own acute apendix. With a rusty spoon and a bottle of Jack Daniels to numb the pain. Actually, I get all my healthcare from Canada or Great Britain. It’s better. Fuck you if you can’t afford a plane ticket. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2014, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-obama-aca/685443/28 "2014-04-06T23:22:41Z")
Don’t annoy the Americans. We’re not quite sane on our best days. And there aren’t that many of those. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-obama-aca/685443/29 "2014-04-07T00:31:02Z")
AND we’re heavily armed! ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-obama-aca/685443/30 "2014-04-07T12:07:55Z")
> [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](#): > > Actually, I get all my healthcare from Canada or Great Britain. It’s better. Fuck you if you can’t afford a plane ticket. I’m Canadian, asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Alma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@Alma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alma)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-obama-aca/685443/31 "2014-04-07T18:43:12Z")
How did you afford a psychiatrist and meds before insurance? I’m honestly curious. ---
**Author:** ![justrob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9adbd/32.png) [@justrob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justrob)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-obama-aca/685443/32 "2014-04-08T12:06:33Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > - A scorecard, courtesy of the excellent Charles P. Pierce: > > **Paul Ryan:** the zombie-eyed granny starver from Wisconsin and First Runner-Up in our most recent Vice Presidential Pageant. > > **Scott Walker:** the goggle-eyed homunculus hired by Koch Industries to manage its midwest subsidiary formerly known as the state of Wisconsin. This is backwards, Walker has the zombie eyes and Ryan is google-eyed. ---
**Author:** ![Kelevra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/97f17d/32.png) [@Kelevra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kelevra)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-obama-aca/685443/33 "2014-04-08T13:28:22Z")
I thought this was going to be a thread about how great the ACA is. My insurance rates dropped over 30% and my individual deductible dropped from $3000 to $1900! My office visit co-pay did go up $5. Thanks ACA! ---
**Author:** ![elninost0rm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ed655f/32.png) [@elninost0rm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elninost0rm)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-obama-aca/685443/34 "2014-04-08T13:48:57Z")
> [@Kelevra](#): > > I thought this was going to be a thread about how great the ACA is. > > My insurance rates dropped over 30% and my individual deductible dropped from $3000 to $1900! My office visit co-pay did go up $5. > > Thanks ACA! MOOCH! YOU’RE WELCOME! …or something…😛 ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-obama-aca/685443/35 "2014-04-08T13:49:08Z")
Goddamn neighbor’s dog has been barking all night! Thanks, Obama! ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-obama-aca/685443/36 "2014-04-08T14:12:27Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > How do insurance companies compete? Isn’t competition the very source of all our Free Market (blessings and peace, etc.) crunchy goodness? So, how? > > Actuarial tables are known science, Greedco’s health insurance uses the same arithmetic as the one used by the Mammon Group. Notice I don’t say the “same math” because it isn’t even math, its arithmetic. The formula is risk, benefit, and premium. So, what efficiency can one offer that the other cannot? An Iphone app? Better calenders? > > Giving the insurance companies a slice of the pie is corporate welfare, no real competition is possible. _Feh!_ That’s super-simplistic, verging on the idiotic. Sure the insurance companies use actuarial tables, but I seriously doubt they use the same ones, and beyond that, the real competition comes in with their negotiation muscle with healthcare providers. The idea is that if the risk is roughly the same, and the benefits are roughly the same, they can offer lower premiums if they negotiate a better deal with the providers, thereby paying less and keeping more of the premiums they collected. You’re right in that it doesn’t really matter to the end consumer much- with the ACA, the plans and premiums are standardized, and for non-ACA people, there’s not much choice either- it’s what your employer offers, or you go to the ACA plans. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-obama-aca/685443/37 "2014-04-08T15:41:30Z")
> [@bump](#): > > That’s super-simplistic, verging on the idiotic. > > Sure the insurance companies use actuarial tables, but I seriously doubt they use the same ones… Oh, you “seriously doubt”! Goodness, confronted with such rock-solid information, I must retreat in disarray! Well, paint my butt blue and call me Ricky Retardo. My problem must be that I lack your intuitive grasp of mathematical reality, I’ve always found arithmetic to be very unforgiving. But no! Turns out, if you got a guy smokes three packs a day and considers bacon to be a food group, he might be assessed by GreedCo Insurance to be very risky, according to their proprietary actuarial tables, but MammonGroup Insurance might find him to be an excellent risk. Wow! I had no idea! Probably everybody else already knew this, but perhaps you will expand further on this astonishing revelation? Are there any actual facts to support this? You know how picky and particular some people are, they simply won’t accept your intuitive grasp of the situation as readily as I. Hell, some of them won’t even accept “seriously doubt” as a fact-based argument, you know how some people can be… ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-obama-aca/685443/38 "2014-04-08T15:54:03Z")
And now that you mention the negotiating power of larger insurance pools, isn’t that rather a good argument for the largest possible pool? Like, single payer? Just as you say, I’m not all that bright, perhaps you’ll help me out with this? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-obama-aca/685443/39 "2014-04-08T16:07:58Z")
> [@Rachellelogram](#): > > According to [this link](http://healthunsurance.bangordailynews.com/2013/10/15/individual/affordable-care-when-you-can-change-plans-and-when-you-cant/), losing your job counts as a qualifying event (like marriage or having a child), which allows you to change your insurance policy prior to the next annual enrollment period. And now that your income is zero, you should qualify for medicaid in every state. > > You’re welcome. > > P.S. If you can’t afford a copay, you can’t afford to drink. Shhhhh!!! Can’t you see he’d rather have his grievance?! ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-obama-aca/685443/40 "2014-04-08T18:53:58Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Oh, you “seriously doubt”! Goodness, confronted with such rock-solid information, I must retreat in disarray! Well, paint my butt blue and call me Ricky Retardo. > > My problem must be that I lack your intuitive grasp of mathematical reality, I’ve always found arithmetic to be very unforgiving. But no! Turns out, if you got a guy smokes three packs a day and considers bacon to be a food group, he might be assessed by GreedCo Insurance to be very risky, according to their proprietary actuarial tables, but MammonGroup Insurance might find him to be an excellent risk. > > Wow! I had no idea! Probably everybody else already knew this, but perhaps you will expand further on this astonishing revelation? Are there any actual facts to support this? You know how picky and particular some people are, they simply won’t accept your intuitive grasp of the situation as readily as I. Hell, some of them won’t even accept “seriously doubt” as a fact-based argument, you know how some people can be… I am not **bump** , and I am in favor of single payer, but I think you are going off the rails a little here. As I understand it, actuary tables are proprietary (I am sure for car insurance, but have no personal knowledge for medical). I do know that different companies require different information for setting rates. Sometimes gender, age, and smoking status is all you need. Sometimes you need to provide BMI, and physical results. Companies can slice the data in many ways. If Aetna thinks they can make more profit by giving a discount to skinny people (really more of a surcharge on overweight people) based on being above or below a specific BMI value, while Blue shield thinks that dividing rates into four tiers based on measured body fat %, why wouldn’t they? They probably all commission their own studies to try to find competitive advantages where ever they can. Most of us belong to work insurance where little of that matters (we may get a non-smoking discount, but that’s about it). But on the individual market they can parse you medical history/conditions however the law doesn’t specifically forbid. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-obama-aca/685443.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-obama-aca/685443.md?page=3)