# Thanks Pres. Bush for the opportunity to restore wetlands and marshes in Mesopotamia **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 18, 2003, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-pres-bush-for-the-opportunity-to-restore-wetlands-and-marshes-in-mesopotamia/169559 "2003-04-18T15:19:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Oldeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@Oldeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oldeb)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-pres-bush-for-the-opportunity-to-restore-wetlands-and-marshes-in-mesopotamia/169559/61 "2012-05-19T21:55:39Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Oh, yeah. Refused to sign Kyoto, refused to join the land mine ban, refused to accept that there are global responsibilities. You can’t blame Bush for failing to sign the Ottawa Treaty. First, it was started while Clinton was in office. Second, while the US could have joined up under Bush, as long as North Korea remains the way it is neither the US nor South Korea will be getting rid of landmines completely, no matter who happens to be president. If it makes you feel any better the US is signatory to the [UN’s CCW](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_Conventional_Weapons), part of which regulates the type and placement of landmines. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2012, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-pres-bush-for-the-opportunity-to-restore-wetlands-and-marshes-in-mesopotamia/169559/62 "2012-05-20T08:41:00Z")
…I bet I wasn’t the only one who thought that December was back from the banned! What next: an old Collunsbury thread? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2012, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-pres-bush-for-the-opportunity-to-restore-wetlands-and-marshes-in-mesopotamia/169559/63 "2012-05-20T10:01:46Z")
Also, it’s a bit macabre, but land mines are generally \*good \*for the environment. They keep people away, and let animals and plants survive. Except for the heavier ones, that is. ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2012, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-pres-bush-for-the-opportunity-to-restore-wetlands-and-marshes-in-mesopotamia/169559/64 "2012-05-20T10:54:27Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Also, it’s a bit macabre, but land mines are generally \*good \*for the environment. They keep people away, and let animals and plants survive. > > Except for the heavier ones, that is. I’d say “except for the _lighter_ ones,” actually – if it’s a hair-trigger anti-personnel mine, a large deer (or a predator, like say a leopard) might trigger it. A magnetic- or half-ton-detonation anti-armor mine, not so much. And people will still generally stay away from those, too. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2012, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-pres-bush-for-the-opportunity-to-restore-wetlands-and-marshes-in-mesopotamia/169559/65 "2012-05-20T11:08:10Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Embankments were broken down and some of the marshes reflooded, but [the continuing presence of upstream dams and recent droughts have left the wetlands with only about 30% of their former marsh area currently thriving](http://news.bbc.co.uk/earth/hi/earth_news/newsid_9364000/9364044.stm) as of January 2011. Mission Accomplished, just like the OP predicted! ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2012, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-pres-bush-for-the-opportunity-to-restore-wetlands-and-marshes-in-mesopotamia/169559/66 "2012-05-20T11:08:51Z")
[4000](http://www.the-monitor.org/index.php/publications/display?url=lm/2011/es/Major_Findings.html) casualties last year. The consequence of only _generally_ keeping people away. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-pres-bush-for-the-opportunity-to-restore-wetlands-and-marshes-in-mesopotamia/169559/67 "2012-05-21T01:10:14Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Oh, yeah. Refused to sign Kyoto, refused to join the land mine ban, refused to accept that there are global responsibilities. > > Humbug. I’m certainly no fan of Bush, but both of those things were the right thing to do. Kyoto was stupidly designed and would’ve resulted in a net negative for the enviornment as even more manufacturing would’ve been pushed to the worst polluters in the world, and the US already does not lay the sort of mines that stay around for years and make the world a dangerous place - the treaty was not written in a way to acknowledge that and pointlessly compromised our ability to use smart munitions. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-pres-bush-for-the-opportunity-to-restore-wetlands-and-marshes-in-mesopotamia/169559/68 "2012-05-21T02:29:56Z")
Fine, I concede Alessan’s point that the DMZ is a protected wild place in effect, and take SenorBeef’s points as well. Bush still was part of an anti-conservation movement that pretends to be “conservative” but is mostly just robber capitalist, and I think Gore would have been better at that point in history. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-pres-bush-for-the-opportunity-to-restore-wetlands-and-marshes-in-mesopotamia/169559/69 "2012-05-21T03:03:28Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Fine, I concede Alessan’s point that the DMZ is a protected wild place in effect, and take SenorBeef’s points as well. Bush still was part of an anti-conservation movement that pretends to be “conservative” but is mostly just robber capitalist, and I think Gore would have been better at that point in history. Wasn’t the question abut the Iraq wetlands, as asked by AK84? ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-pres-bush-for-the-opportunity-to-restore-wetlands-and-marshes-in-mesopotamia/169559/70 "2012-05-21T04:21:06Z")
Man, this is going to hurt Bush’s chances in '04. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-pres-bush-for-the-opportunity-to-restore-wetlands-and-marshes-in-mesopotamia/169559/71 "2012-05-21T04:27:44Z")
> [@GreasyJack](#): > > Man, this is going to hurt Bush’s chances in '04. _snork_ ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-pres-bush-for-the-opportunity-to-restore-wetlands-and-marshes-in-mesopotamia/169559/72 "2012-05-21T07:50:46Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > the US already does not lay the sort of mines that stay around for years and make the world a dangerous place I know you used the term “lay” there, but thinking that the US is [already responsible](http://www.uscbl.org/about-landmines/landmine-facts/) with their [smart munitions](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medium_Atomic_Demolition_Munition)… As for the Kyoto thing, do you have a cite? It’s entirely consistent for the Bush administration to claim something negative is beneficial and the converse. See [here](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5f9R9MtkpqM) for more. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-pres-bush-for-the-opportunity-to-restore-wetlands-and-marshes-in-mesopotamia/169559/73 "2012-05-21T09:31:31Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I’m certainly no fan of Bush, but both of those things were the right thing to do. Kyoto was stupidly designed and would’ve resulted in a net negative for the enviornment as even more manufacturing would’ve been pushed to the worst polluters in the world, and the US already does not lay the sort of mines that stay around for years and make the world a dangerous place - the treaty was not written in a way to acknowledge that and pointlessly compromised our ability to use smart munitions. That’s right. The guy on _West Wing_ thinks so, and you’re to the left of him then you must be some kind of crazy hippie who can safely be ignored, because all the people who argue with the guy on _West Wing_ are. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-pres-bush-for-the-opportunity-to-restore-wetlands-and-marshes-in-mesopotamia/169559/74 "2012-05-21T10:33:13Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …I bet I wasn’t the only one who thought that December was back from the banned! What next: an old Collunsbury thread? I was already scrambling for my wooden stakes and mallet when I realized it was just a zombie. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-pres-bush-for-the-opportunity-to-restore-wetlands-and-marshes-in-mesopotamia/169559/75 "2012-05-21T10:41:04Z")
Before you all rush into the fray, IIRC, **december** passed away a number of years ago, and a relative contacted the board to inform us of the news. Could a kindly mod verify this…or at the very least tell me that I’m totally mistaken and thinking of somebody else?? 😛 Fanks! ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-pres-bush-for-the-opportunity-to-restore-wetlands-and-marshes-in-mesopotamia/169559/76 "2012-05-21T12:59:33Z")
First I heard about **december** passing, you might indeed be thinking of someone else (or I just missed it). ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-pres-bush-for-the-opportunity-to-restore-wetlands-and-marshes-in-mesopotamia/169559/77 "2012-05-21T13:31:12Z")
I gather that Bush _did_ do a good job with restoring the wetlands of New-Orleans. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-pres-bush-for-the-opportunity-to-restore-wetlands-and-marshes-in-mesopotamia/169559/78 "2012-05-21T13:31:40Z")
**december** isn’t listed in the [In Memoriam](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=510802) sticky. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-pres-bush-for-the-opportunity-to-restore-wetlands-and-marshes-in-mesopotamia/169559/79 "2012-05-21T14:12:39Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …I bet I wasn’t the only one who thought that December was back from the banned! What next: an old Collunsbury thread? Collounsbury was an overly combative poster who was fully convinced of his own rightness, but at least he _knew_ stuff. I followed his blog for awhile after he was banned from here, and it was usually worth reading. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-pres-bush-for-the-opportunity-to-restore-wetlands-and-marshes-in-mesopotamia/169559/80 "2012-05-21T15:43:45Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > **december** isn’t listed in the [In Memoriam](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=510802) sticky. Weird. I could have sworn \*\*december \*\*died, too, and was in the ‘memoriam’ sticky with a description saying he was (combative? argumentative? something), but he was ours. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-pres-bush-for-the-opportunity-to-restore-wetlands-and-marshes-in-mesopotamia/169559.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-pres-bush-for-the-opportunity-to-restore-wetlands-and-marshes-in-mesopotamia/169559.md?page=5)