# Thanks to England, Australia, and Others **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 20, 2003, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-to-england-australia-and-others/162738 "2003-03-20T05:01:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-to-england-australia-and-others/162738/41 "2003-03-21T01:44:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Violet \* > \*\*Speak for yourself! \*\* Nah, he can speak for me too; I’ve only got a shaky grasp on geography. I understand that England is a country, and is part of the UK along with Ireland, Scotland and Wales (what did I miss?) but I don’t really “get” the difference between being Brittish/English or England/Britain. Not to mention I’m at a loss as to whether “Great Britain” means just England or if it’s like " The greater Boston Area" and is meant to include the surrounding areas as well…though I suspect the latter(if so, how is that different than the UK?). Would someone like to aide me in fighting my ignorance here? Since I live in the US, in the Northeast, in New England _and_ in New Hampshire, I guess I can’t complain about the complicated labels 😃 As for the OP, I don’t see our custom of thanking nations as to be a “shout out” to the citizens of the countries in question, but rather an a gesture of appreciation towards their governments and militaries; it’s not as though the average citizen in ally country has any more say in the matters than I do, so why thank or vilify them? (by correlation the “French” being lambasted are those in power, in my mind, not your average Jacques). YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-to-england-australia-and-others/162738/42 "2003-03-21T02:11:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elfkin477 \* > \*\*Nah, he can speak for me too; I’ve only got a shaky grasp on geography. I understand that England is a country, and is part of the UK along with Ireland, Scotland and Wales (what did I miss?) \*\* Didn’t miss anything - included too much, actually. It’s just Northern Ireland, not Ireland. > [@](#): > > **Not to mention I’m at a loss as to whether “Great Britain” means just England** plus Wales and Scotland. It’s “The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland”. Now someone more knowledgeable than me can explain how all the islands like Jersey and the Isle of Man play in this picture. ---
**Author:** ![BigNik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/73ab20/32.png) [@BigNik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigNik)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-to-england-australia-and-others/162738/43 "2003-03-21T02:28:57Z")
**Rhum Runner** , what you did was not polite. The Australian populace - and, I believe, the British, but I’ll stick with what I know - does not want its troops there. We are not comfortable with being a nation of aggressors or war criminals. That our PM has acted against the national desire and the national interest is deeply hurtful, and is resented by the majority of the people of Australia. Response in Australia to the news of the war is not good. Many hope to see massive US casualties, both among its troops and among civilians on the home front. Many wish to see your President dead for his crimes against humanity. “Thanking” Australia for its presence is merely rubbing our nose in a unpleasant fact. You may have thought you were being nice, but you weren’t. ---
**Author:** ![NaSultainne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8797f3/32.png) [@NaSultainne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NaSultainne)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-to-england-australia-and-others/162738/44 "2003-03-21T02:44:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BigNik \* > \*\ ***Rhum Runner** , what you did was not polite. \<\<_snip_\>\>Response in Australia to the news of the war is not good. Many hope to see massive US casualties, both among its troops and among civilians on the home front. Many wish to see your President dead for his crimes against humanity. “Thanking” Australia for its presence is merely rubbing our nose in a unpleasant fact. You may have thought you were being nice, but you weren’t. \*\* This appalling statement alone ought to merit a lengthy bout of soul-searching on the part of many so-called peace activists. Don’t want war to remove a repressive despot but oh-so willing to wish death on our President? You, sir, are over the line. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![whiterabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@whiterabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whiterabbit)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-to-england-australia-and-others/162738/45 "2003-03-21T02:45:18Z")
**BigNik** , I’m sorry about all of this. This situation makes me just as sick as it makes you. I can’t go quite so far as to wish Bush was dead, but I wouldn’t be too unhappy if it happened. I think he is a disgrace to the office he holds. I don’t think our civilian population would have been able to stop this any more than yours was, though, so I sincerely hope you aren’t one of those who wants to see us dead. I hope all your troops get home in one piece. And ours. And everybody else. ---
**Author:** ![whiterabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@whiterabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whiterabbit)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-to-england-australia-and-others/162738/46 "2003-03-21T02:51:05Z")
I hit post before rereading that first sentence in the paragraph. I maybe shouldn’t have said that. It reads like I DO wish he was dead, but am too wussy to say so. I can’t even wish death on my ex-fiance’s parents for pulling us apart, and that’s PERSONAL. I REALLY shouldn’t have said that. And I hope that most of Australia doesn’t feel that angry about this, though I can’t say I entirely blame them… ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-to-england-australia-and-others/162738/47 "2003-03-21T03:04:52Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by BigNik_ > **We are not comfortable with being a nation of aggressors** > […] > **Many hope to see massive US casualties, both among its troops and among civilians on the home front** You know Nik, I’m seeing some contradiction here. But no matter, I have no doubt that your vile opinions are not representative of all Australians. ---
**Author:** ![McDuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@McDuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/McDuff)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-to-england-australia-and-others/162738/48 "2003-03-21T03:06:28Z")
**Nasultaine** > [@](#): > > This appalling statement alone ought to merit a lengthy bout of soul-searching on the part of many so-called peace activists. Umm… confuse one person with the whole much? ---
**Author:** ![litost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@litost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/litost)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-to-england-australia-and-others/162738/49 "2003-03-21T03:12:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by McDuff \* > \*\ ***Nasultaine** > > Umm… confuse one person with the whole much? \*\* But, generalizing and name-calling is easier. ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-to-england-australia-and-others/162738/50 "2003-03-21T03:15:31Z")
Nik: > [@](#): > > Response in Australia to the news of the war is not good. Many hope to see massive US casualties, both among its troops and among civilians on the home front. Many wish to see your President dead for his crimes against humanity. Excuse me? Am I reading this right? You want me dead? Or are you merely wishing for the death of my children? That makes you no better than the sickos who blew up a night club in Bali because they wanted to kill Australians, British and Americans. I guess you are not one of those peace activists or non-violent types. I am horrified at your words and I sincerely hope they are not typical of your fellow citizens. The Australians I met when I was in Sydney and Adelaide (you folks do a nice solar eclipse, BTW) did not seem that bloodthirsty and evil. In fact they seemed quite friendly and civilized. ---
**Author:** ![NaSultainne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8797f3/32.png) [@NaSultainne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NaSultainne)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-to-england-australia-and-others/162738/51 "2003-03-21T03:17:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by McDuff \* > \*\ ***Nasultaine** > > Umm… confuse one person with the whole much? \*\* Don’t be dense, m’kay? I directly responded to his outrageous comments; I then extended my recommendation that many demonstrating for peace thoughtfully search their souls for any hidden motives behind their actions, particularly if any recognized a bit of **BigNik** lurking inside. That I had to spell it out even more for you, well, have a chip on your shoulder, _hmmm_? ---
**Author:** ![BigNik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/73ab20/32.png) [@BigNik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigNik)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-to-england-australia-and-others/162738/52 "2003-03-21T03:35:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Usram \* > \*\*You know Nik, I’m seeing some contradiction here. But no matter, I have no doubt that your vile opinions are not representative of all Australians. \*\* All? No. Not even most. But many. There is no contradiction between not wanting Australians to kill innocents and hoping that an aggressive, terrorist nation gets its arses handed to it in an unexpected manner. It is startling that American people manage to see themselves as good guys. Maybe it’s that they don’t know what they’re responsible for. Maybe they don’t realise that living in a democracy means that they are personally responsible for things their government does in their name. Maybe they’re sufficiently morally flexible to disown responsibility for the deaths they cause. Maybe they’re just able to maintain a comfortable level of ignorance. Maybe they’re happy to buy into the hype of a ‘freedom’ that they work so hard to supress around the world. I don’t know. It still doesn’t absolve responsibility. And the worst part is that until something brings it to their attention, they can live in a comfortable little cocoon. Is the US worse than any other empirical power throughout history? In moral terms, probably not. Empires have always had the problem that those living in the provinces and outside the empire have objected to living in repression for the benefit of their imperial masters. It’s just that a combination of modern weaponry that makes it easier to cause massive casualties with less relative cost, combined with a media that - if it chooses, and very recently it has chosen not to - can bring the grim realities home, has the ability to throw the grim side of imperialism into sharper relief. If you do not accept that an unwilling empire is morally unacceptable to maintain - and this is a view that has only come to be accepted by the public relatively recently - then this is not a problem. It wasn’t for the Romans. It wasn’t for the French. It wasn’t for the British. Hell - it wasn’t until Viet Nam that it became a problem for most around the world. If you believe, however, that there is no moral imperative for maintaining an empire, then one must accept that turnabout is fair play. If the US and its allies are willing to massacre, then so must they be willing to be subject to massacre. If the US sees fit to cluster bomb civilians in Afghanistan, it cannot morally object if others choose to slaughter its otherwise unwitting civilians. If Bush orders the death of another head of state, he too is fair game. This is nothing to do with Hussein. He’s a regional thug that should be removed. But this is not something that any other nation, or small group thereof, is entitled to do. And, as has been proved, Iraq is not the greatest threat to order that the world faces right now. ---
**Author:** ![Essured](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Essured](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Essured)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-to-england-australia-and-others/162738/53 "2003-03-21T03:44:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BigNik \* > \*\* Maybe it’s that they don’t know what they’re responsible for. Maybe they don’t realise that living in a democracy means that they are personally responsible for things their government does in their name. \*\* I hope it’s clear that **BigNik** is speaking for himself only, just like we all are. **BigNik** I resent what you said above. Living in Australia does **not** make me personally responsible for the deaths of troops or civilians in this conflict. The fact that the Prime Minister has made a decision, does **not** mean that it is being done in my name **or** that I am responsible for it. I request an apology and retraction, please. I will leave the rest of your post for others to comment on, suffice it to say I strenuously disagree with almost all of it. ---
**Author:** ![BigNik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/73ab20/32.png) [@BigNik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigNik)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-to-england-australia-and-others/162738/54 "2003-03-21T04:02:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MLS \* > **Excuse me? Am I reading this right? You want me dead? Or are you merely wishing for the death of my children?** MLS, my reply is better suited to another forum. Please check out [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=171402) if you’d like to continue the debate. ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-to-england-australia-and-others/162738/55 "2003-03-21T11:24:17Z")
John Pilger is Autralian I believe. That tells us a lot. ---
**Author:** ![woolly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ebca7d/32.png) [@woolly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woolly)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-to-england-australia-and-others/162738/56 "2003-03-21T11:50:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BigNik \*but I’ll stick with what I know… snip… > [@](#): > > Many hope to see massive US casualties, both among its troops and among civilians on the home front. Whatever you know **BigNik** , it sure ain’t current in this time zone. Take a Bex, have a good lie down and then come back with a retraction because that’s appalling beyond belief. :mad: Next you’ll be claiming Australians will be dancing in the streets if there’s another Sep 11th type incident. You’re a mug lair and a disgrace. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_great_unwashed/32/4791_2.png) [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-to-england-australia-and-others/162738/57 "2003-03-21T11:57:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MLS \* > \*\*Why are the demonstrators not protesting his well-known violations of human rights? The ecological damage alone is horrifying. \*\* We were demonstrating, when your government and mine were complicit (and even active) in arming him and his kind. Saddam was a sick, evil thug then as he is now. If you bear this in mind, you may be able to see that what seems like intemperance in BigNik’s posts is merely an expression of frustration at the true horror of the maxim _You reap what you sow_. (Apologies to BigNik, for whom I have no right to speak.) ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-to-england-australia-and-others/162738/58 "2003-03-21T12:02:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by woolly \* > You’re a mug lair and a disgrace. Don’t woory, Mods. That’s just ous’ralian for ‘I respectfully disagree, old cock’ Round up the sheep, it’s gonna kick off ! I’ll hold the big fella, you thump 'im … … \*and no one spill any beer than you have to \* … ---
**Author:** ![woolly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ebca7d/32.png) [@woolly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woolly)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-to-england-australia-and-others/162738/59 "2003-03-21T12:06:35Z")
Gee thanks L\_C, there goes my chances of slipping that one under the radar. 😉 This is a payback for the thread on the HMS Nottingham ain’t it. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![gex\_gex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/94ad74/32.png) [@gex\_gex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gex_gex)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-to-england-australia-and-others/162738/60 "2003-03-21T12:23:14Z")
**Big Nik** , I also disagree with you. I don’t support this war, and I think it was very rude of the OP to be thanking us for something that the majority of us do not want to be involved in. However, I don’t want to see any troops get killed, and although I find George Bush and the American Government disgusting, I can’t say that I’d like him killed (For a start, assassinated Presidents are always looked on comparitively kindly in a historical sense). Ashcroft I might like to see dead. That guy is scum… but I digress. Seriously, I, and I think that most of my countrymen do not want to see harm come to any troops, and our quarrel with Bush is his position and influence, not his life. And America: thanks for having the courage to protest your leader’s despicable actions and stand up against your administrations tyranny. Also, I’d like to thank you guys for having the smarts to realise that you can’t possibly support the morally-bankrupt French by allowing your foods to bear their name. Thanks for the knee-jerking guys. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-to-england-australia-and-others/162738.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-to-england-australia-and-others/162738.md?page=4)