# Thanks to the non-US'ers for your patience **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 23, 2010, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-to-the-non-users-for-your-patience/533493 "2010-03-23T16:17:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-to-the-non-users-for-your-patience/533493/21 "2010-03-24T01:26:25Z")
Did he ever call himself a “Bushy”? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-to-the-non-users-for-your-patience/533493/22 "2010-03-24T01:56:17Z")
> [@Cunctator](#): > > I suspect the next complaint will be about the cost of the whole thing. Not just the cost, but the fact that they’re PAYING SO MUCH FOR SOMEONE ELSE’S HEALTHCARE!!!1!! ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-to-the-non-users-for-your-patience/533493/23 "2010-03-24T02:44:46Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > It also would have been a lie, since what passed isn’t just like any of them. As god is my witness, I have tried to understand this “universal health care” legislation, and I don’t get it. It appars to be about fifty-seven thousand different legislated initiatives that do a whole bunch of things related to health insurance, but do not actually create a unviersal health insurance plan. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-to-the-non-users-for-your-patience/533493/24 "2010-03-24T02:53:19Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > I hate to say it, but when it comes to debating UHC, it almost feels like I’m debating with a Flat Earther or a Creationist. **Even though there are mountains of evidence that shows it works** , no amount of evidence is going to be enough for those who oppose it. Now that the struggle is over, I should take a break for awhile just to preserve my own mental health. I don’t need to keep pushing this rock up a hill forever and ever like the legendary Sisyphus was forced to do. > > What makes me happy is the knowledge that their numbers are doomed to dwindle over time. 50 years from now, the notion of abolishing universal health care will be a lunatic fringe position akin to privatizing the roads or abolishing Fire Departments. Nope. You still don’t get it. There are mountains of evidence showing that populations of countries with UHC are healthier than the population of the US. That does not mean that UHC is better than the US system as of last week. For one thing, that evidence doesn’t show that UHC provides better health care. And for another, it ignores the non-health impacts of UHC (i.e., the negative effects of a large government with long-term entitlement programs). I’m sure you’ll dismiss this post as just more quackery from a flat-earther, but the truth remains that you have not addressed even these simple arguments against your position. ---
**Author:** ![PopeJewish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@PopeJewish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PopeJewish)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-to-the-non-users-for-your-patience/533493/25 "2010-03-24T02:58:06Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > It also would have been a lie, since what passed isn’t just like any of them. It’s ridiculous. Here we have all these health systems out there that give better results for lower costs than ours does that have been operating for decades, that have discovered by experimentation what works and what doesn’t. We had an unparallelled opportunity to cherry-pick the best of health care systems (including what is good in our current one) and we wind up arguing about death panels and communism. Sheesh. > > Sometimes I think we’re the world’s stupidest country. > [@Blalron](#): > > I hate to say it, but when it comes to debating UHC, it almost feels like I’m debating with a Flat Earther or a Creationist. Even though there are mountains of evidence that shows it works, no amount of evidence is going to be enough for those who oppose it. Now that the struggle is over, I should take a break for awhile just to preserve my own mental health. I don’t need to keep pushing this rock up a hill forever and ever like the legendary Sisyphus was forced to do. > > What makes me happy is the knowledge that their numbers are doomed to dwindle over time. 50 years from now, the notion of abolishing universal health care will be a lunatic fringe position akin to privatizing the roads or abolishing Fire Departments. as an american living in Japan I can agree with both of these sentiments. THe amount I paid for healthcare back in California was fucking criminal and I got jack shit out of it. I went to the hospital here and, with medicine, it was about $100, all of which covered by my health care. No co-pay, nothing. All of it covered. America has one of the worst health care systems in the world and it’s pathetic to hear some of these people, some of my _friends_ argue about how good our health care system is and how UHC would destroy it. Look around, EVERY OTHER CIVILIZED COUNTRY uses some form of UHC and, generally speaking, it’s far cheaper and covers a lot more, and refuses treatment to far less people, than the bullshit we have to put up with. Anyone who argues against socialized health care either has no idea what they’re talking about or has a vested interest in insurance companies. it’s as simple as that ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-to-the-non-users-for-your-patience/533493/26 "2010-03-24T03:03:12Z")
. . . or has different priorities than you. Putting a huge and growing and unending burden on the economy just so you can go to the doctor and only pay $100 and be all happy about it is not huge on my list of priorities. ---
**Author:** ![gravitycrash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@gravitycrash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gravitycrash)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-to-the-non-users-for-your-patience/533493/27 "2010-03-24T03:21:25Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > . . . or has different priorities than you. Putting a huge and growing and unending burden on the economy just so you can go to the doctor and only pay $100 and be all happy about it is not huge on my list of priorities. Come on man. This is going to save the government lotsa money in the long run! The CBO said so! The U.S government is world renowned for efficiency and accuracy in budget projections. Have faith bro. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-to-the-non-users-for-your-patience/533493/28 "2010-03-24T03:28:08Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > (i.e., the negative effects of a large government with long-term entitlement programs).. Ya, like less government debt per capita, less debt per GDP, better unemployment rate, a rising currency, a solvent government pension plan, and better future economic growth predictions. Other than that, Canada is an economic shithole. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-to-the-non-users-for-your-patience/533493/29 "2010-03-24T03:30:42Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Putting a huge and growing and unending burden on the economy just so you can go to the doctor and only pay $100 and be all happy about it is not huge on my list of priorities. All I can say is that by the time it’s an issue you’ll either be dead of old age or glad you _can_ go to the doctor for a nominal sum- although, personally, I don’t consider “only $100” nominal… ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-to-the-non-users-for-your-patience/533493/30 "2010-03-24T03:33:38Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > . . . or has different priorities than you. Putting a huge and growing and unending burden on the economy just so you can go to the doctor and only pay $100 and be all happy about it is not huge on my list of priorities. Other countries pay less for health care, both as a percentage of their GDP and in absolute numbers per capita, for better results. And they’ve been doing this for decades (in the case of Germany, since 1889). Your statement that UHC is a burden on the economy is, objectively, full of shit. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-to-the-non-users-for-your-patience/533493/31 "2010-03-24T04:32:05Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > \And for another, it ignores the non-health impacts of UHC \ Yeah, like being free to leave your job or your marriage without worrying about healthcare insurance. > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Ya, like less government debt per capita, less debt per GDP, better unemployment rate, a rising currency, a solvent government pension plan, and better future economic growth predictions. Other than that, Canada is an economic shithole. Stablest banking system in the world, baby! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-to-the-non-users-for-your-patience/533493/32 "2010-03-24T04:40:36Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Yeah, like being free to leave your job or your marriage without worrying about healthcare insurance. > Stablest banking system in the world, baby! 😃 Did we mention that housing prices did not crash in Canada because their was no real estate bubble? When exactly is our socialistic UHC going to tank our economy anyway? We’ve had it since 1948 or so. Is the collapse imminent? ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-to-the-non-users-for-your-patience/533493/33 "2010-03-24T04:42:20Z")
Thanks, the rest of the world! One day, if we try very, very hard, we might be as good as you! It will be hard because we’re so _stupid_ and all. Jesus christ, man, be more ashamed of being an American. I don’t think you’re trying hard enough. > [@](#): > > America has one of the worst health care systems in the world Bullshit. BTW, I’m a _proponent_ of UHC! I’m just so sick of my fellow liberals being such whiny apologists to Europeans. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-to-the-non-users-for-your-patience/533493/34 "2010-03-24T05:12:31Z")
We have the best health care money can buy! America! Fucked, yeah! ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-to-the-non-users-for-your-patience/533493/35 "2010-03-24T05:16:24Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > . . . or has different priorities than you. Putting a huge and growing and unending burden on the economy just so you can go to the doctor and only pay $100 and be all happy about it is not huge on my list of priorities. I do like it that your position is so consistent. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-to-the-non-users-for-your-patience/533493/36 "2010-03-24T05:23:08Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Did we mention that housing prices did not crash in Canada because their was no real estate bubble? When exactly is our socialistic UHC going to tank our economy anyway? We’ve had it since 1948 or so. Is the collapse imminent? Oh yeah, I forgot about our responsible, conservative mortgage system that doesn’t tolerate things like “liar’s loans.” ---
**Author:** ![Tethered\_Kite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@Tethered\_Kite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tethered_Kite)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-to-the-non-users-for-your-patience/533493/37 "2010-03-24T05:40:30Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > This Merkin is grateful to you all. Merkin! ---
**Author:** ![ivn1188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@ivn1188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivn1188)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-to-the-non-users-for-your-patience/533493/38 "2010-03-24T06:09:30Z")
OP’s a fucking idiot; his post is the worst sort of ignorant hero-worship. There’s no question that we need some healthcare reform, nor was there ever a haze of ignorance about health care on this board, only dispelled through patient education by people who have state-sponsored health care (many of whom, note, have just as bizarre and poorly informed opinions about our system as many of us do about theirs). It’s also not like the medical system in the United States is/was a failure, or even close to the worst system _among even first world nations_. There are plenty of issues with it, yes, and with other countries’ various sorts of health care solutions as well. Factual and policy debates aside, it’s fucking retarded to believe that these kind European Dopers have been some sort of sainted educators that helped us see our way through this process. I’m pretty sure the majority of people in favor of health care reforms weren’t staggering along in a blind haze until the leading light of dumbfuck loudmouths from other countries came along to guide us. You need to stop fetishizing Euros like they have some sort of clue that we don’t, because there are plenty of areas where we are and have been ahead of them as well. It’s insulting for you to lump me and other posters in with a small portion of our society who are ignorant and uninformed. Take their fucking genitalia out of your mouth. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-to-the-non-users-for-your-patience/533493/39 "2010-03-24T06:27:23Z")
ivn: I took you off ignore for that thread you started in ATMB. And, while this post was entertaining, please tell me you get that this post is at least somewhat tongue-in-cheek. Or, if it isn’t, I’ll be reassessing Elvis’s position on my list. ---
**Author:** ![ivn1188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@ivn1188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivn1188)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-to-the-non-users-for-your-patience/533493/40 "2010-03-24T06:50:56Z")
I can’t tell. The only way I can see it as being tongue-in-cheek is if he’s chiding Euros (used as shorthand for all of the first world UHC types) for their somewhat uninformed superiority, or if he’s some sort of [del]redneck[/del] conservative who is making a pitch-perfect satire of the stereotypical liberal. To me, it sounds like he’s pretty serious. If I’m wrong, and he actually is making some sort of brilliant subtle joke, I’ll recant. I will also love that he pulled off such great satire, and managed to whoosh me. I just can’t see any middle ground that isn’t smarmy and obnoxious. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-to-the-non-users-for-your-patience/533493.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thanks-to-the-non-users-for-your-patience/533493.md?page=3)