# Thankyou George W. Bush **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 12, 2011, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thankyou-george-w-bush/571091 "2011-02-12T01:56:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thankyou-george-w-bush/571091/21 "2011-02-12T04:54:53Z")
> [@Superhal](#): > > If you voted for him in 2004, there’s no excuse. Regret now is meaningless. As I pointed out, the OP couldn’t have voted for either – he’s Canadian. ---
**Author:** ![user\_hostile](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/user_hostile/32/474_2.png) [@user\_hostile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/user_hostile)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thankyou-george-w-bush/571091/22 "2011-02-12T05:33:31Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > You took us to war in Iraq on the excuse of WMDs. Right or wrong, I always believed you were looking at the big picture. I gave credence to the idea that birthing a democracy in the middle east, ie, Iraq, would spill democracy over. Well now we have possibilities in Tunisia, some real hope foir Egypt and all the money in the middle east couldn’t support a dictator. And , even strong non-democratic regimes like Saudi Arabia are shaking in their boots. I gave Reagan credit for the fall of th Soviet empire based his prerequisite programs. I give Bush credit for what’s happening today. Whoosh. Whoosh. Whoosh. Whoosh. Whoosh. Whoosh. The sound of one hand clapping. Hand getting sore yet, **TFD**? ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thankyou-george-w-bush/571091/23 "2011-02-12T06:00:02Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Probably be more appropriate to thank Julian Assange. Or maybe Mustafa Kemal Ataturk. Facebook, Twitter and Google The revolution isn’t televised. It’s on YouTube. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thankyou-george-w-bush/571091/24 "2011-02-12T11:46:47Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > You took us to war in Iraq on the excuse of WMDs. Right or wrong, I always believed you were looking at the big picture. I gave credence to the idea that birthing a democracy in the middle east, ie, Iraq, would spill democracy over. Well now we have possibilities in Tunisia, some real hope foir Egypt and all the money in the middle east couldn’t support a dictator. And , even strong non-democratic regimes like Saudi Arabia are shaking in their boots. I gave Reagan credit for the fall of th Soviet empire based his prerequisite programs. I give Bush credit for what’s happening today. You forgot that Reagan was the one responsible for the booming economy in the second Clinton Administration! And of course, such economic improvement as there was in 2010 was because business people knew the GOP was going to do well in the midterms that November. (Who needs _post hoc_ anymore? :)) ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thankyou-george-w-bush/571091/25 "2011-02-12T11:56:43Z")
Man, as someone who spent a lot of time in Iraq and knows just a shitload of people who died there, I would love to think it all meant something, but can you give me any cites for your claim that Iraq was an influence in Egypt and Tunisia? Also, can you expand on the state of democracy in Iraq today? ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thankyou-george-w-bush/571091/26 "2011-02-12T12:17:59Z")
Germany turned out OK, so well done Herr H. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thankyou-george-w-bush/571091/27 "2011-02-12T14:11:28Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > Ehhhh… I give the Tunisian and Egyptian peoples the credit for what’s happening today. You’re silly. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thankyou-george-w-bush/571091/28 "2011-02-12T14:30:19Z")
Moving thread from IMHO to Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thankyou-george-w-bush/571091/29 "2011-02-12T14:40:56Z")
Why? Crane ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thankyou-george-w-bush/571091/30 "2011-02-12T14:42:52Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > … I gave credence to the idea that birthing a democracy in the middle east, ie, Iraq, would spill democracy over. Well now we have possibilities in Tunisia, some real hope foir Egypt … I give Bush credit for what’s happening today. What could possibly rationally make a connection with the prior US adminstration? Nothing in what I have seen on BBC etc in interviews with Tunisians and Egyptians shows any connection whatsoever to the Bush Administration’s idiotic decision to invade Iraq and the complex cock-up that followed. Nary a single person has mentioned Iraq. A few mentioned the wikileaks in interviews, but IRaq… So where’s the logic? In particular regarding Tunisia, which set this off. > [@Lakai](#): > > …All Obama did was give on lousy speech in Cairo calling for democratic reforms in Muslim countries. There is no way that had anything to do with what happened in Egypt. I very much doubt yet another American president yammering on about democracy while continuing to fund the regime to a tune of US$1 billion plus had any particular effect on Egyptians. > [@madmonk28](#): > > … can you give me any cites for your claim that Iraq was an influence in Egypt and Tunisia? Also, can you expand on the state of democracy in Iraq today? Seconded. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thankyou-george-w-bush/571091/31 "2011-02-12T14:52:26Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Wait a minute: Reagan did _what_, now? If the OP isn’t a whoosh, somebody needs a beatin’. He threatened to outlaw Russia and bomb the shit out of them in five minutes. They took it to heart, straightened up, and tore down the Berlin wall as Ronnie and Maggie walked arm in arm through Checkpoint Charlie. It’s all in _the Official History According to Neo-Conservative Revisionists_, Vol. 2. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thankyou-george-w-bush/571091/32 "2011-02-12T14:56:00Z")
I give credit to The Second Half Of The Second Amendment, because we all know without the right of individuals to bear arms it would be impossible to resist a tyrannical government. Thank God those Egyptians armed themselves and fought it out with the dictator’s army and emerged victorious! Oh wait, they didn’t need guns. Never mind. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thankyou-george-w-bush/571091/33 "2011-02-12T15:10:46Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Moving thread from IMHO to Great Debates. I deliberately avoided GD, because I was well aware that I am not equiped to adequately back up my opinion. What I’ve said is simply how I feel. I might add that the Obama administration, Cairo speech at el, is just as significant if not more than the Bush administration for the new wave of middle east peoples, starting with Iran, having the guts to challenge illegitimate authority with the hope for democracy in the future. Clearly we are in a new phase of middle east history. History always follows a timeline and consequences result for every action often quite subtle and often not immediate. That is my opinion as well. ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thankyou-george-w-bush/571091/34 "2011-02-12T15:10:57Z")
Oh and I don’t know what American TV showed, but as far as BBC and quality UK press, it was pretty bloody clear that Egyptians were mainly inspired by Tunisia - it got cited quite a lot actually as far as I saw. And domestic factors, but just talking about outside influences, the only thing I saw on BBC and in reading arties on this was Tunisia, Tunisia, Tunisia. Unless the OP can provide something besides some rather peculiar wishful thinking (like solid proper evidence that the Tunisians were inspired by something other than themselves), we can pretty much conclude the whole thing is utter bollocks. ETA supra: > [@](#): > > The Flying Dutchman: > I deliberately avoided GD, because I was well aware that I am not equiped to adequately back up my opinion. What I’ve said is simply how I feel. > > I might add that the Obama administration, Cairo speech at el, is just as significant if not more than the Bush administration for the new wave of middle east peoples, starting with Iran, having the guts to challenge illegitimate authority with the hope for democracy in the future. Errr well fair enough, but why the fuck do you “feel” American presidents had anything at all to do with either Tunisia or Egypt - and why would a\*\*\* failed\*\*\* protest movement in Iran have any echo at all in Tunisia? They’re not even Arabs after all and from what I can tell from the French North Africans I run into, they don’t really give a flying fuck about Iran one way or the other. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thankyou-george-w-bush/571091/35 "2011-02-12T15:16:57Z")
I [del]think[/del] hope we’re all on the same page about the relationship between the riots in Tunisia and Egypt, but I think our friend here is trying to convince us that the spark (no pun intended) that led to massive revolt in Tunisia was prompted by GWB’s invasion of Iraq… somehow. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thankyou-george-w-bush/571091/36 "2011-02-12T15:41:43Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > I deliberately avoided GD, because I was well aware that I am not equiped to adequately back up my opinion. What I’ve said is simply how I feel. So you’re a big Colbert watcher then? Opinion without any factual basis is commonly referred to as “bullshit”. Your comment about Reagan and the Soviets has no basis in reality and is easily refuted, hence my initial comment upthread. ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thankyou-george-w-bush/571091/37 "2011-02-12T16:01:01Z")
Well, give him a break, he was expressing a feeling. That’s fine. But he should have a logical basis for it. Me, I have the ‘feeling’ that Egypt’s not a revolution but a changing of the military guard… but I don’t know much about Egypt except from BBC, so… On the other hand I can point to a couple facts to at least weakly support my feeling. I’m pretty much at a loss to see any logical connection with Iraq here. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thankyou-george-w-bush/571091/38 "2011-02-12T16:05:26Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > I deliberately avoided GD, because I was well aware that I am not equiped to adequately back up my opinion. Dude, have you _seen_ a third of the posts in GD? Trust me, you are in good company. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thankyou-george-w-bush/571091/39 "2011-02-12T16:11:18Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > So you’re a big Colbert watcher then? Opinion without any factual basis is commonly referred to as “bullshit”. Your comment about Reagan and the Soviets has no basis in reality and is easily refuted, hence my initial comment upthread. In his defense, everyone has feelings that they may not be able to run off with immediate citations from the internet to factually defend. He probably shouldn’t have started a thread about it here if he couldn’t defend it, but here we are. Basically, **Dutchman** believes W’s spiel about this war on bad guys being something that will yield no immediate results, but is a long-term investment in democracy. While it is true that not all of history can be simplified down to “X caused Y, and here is a chart of the linear progression,” the invasion of Iraq has absolutely nothing to do with what is happening in Egypt and Tunisia now. W’s Iraq policies didn’t get the wheels turning in people’s heads, inspiring the masses, beginning a gradual shift to democracy. The Iraq war deepened _hostility_ in the region, if anything. We’re having the same argument here that we’ve been having for ten years, except now we’re pretending like W’s specious premise for his wars is having a measurable effect, when we’re dealing with the same fallacious bullshit that we’ve always been. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thankyou-george-w-bush/571091/40 "2011-02-12T16:13:23Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Re the OP: > > Look up _Post hoc ergo propter hoc_. > > I give the rooster credit for making the sun come up, too. The sun comes up, the sun goes down. Explain that! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thankyou-george-w-bush/571091.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thankyou-george-w-bush/571091.md?page=3)