# That "A" as in "apple" sound
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-a-as-in-apple-sound/443144
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [March 29, 2008, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-a-as-in-apple-sound/443144 "2008-03-29T04:57:16Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)
#### Post date: [March 29, 2008, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-a-as-in-apple-sound/443144/1 "2008-03-29T04:57:16Z")
Do any other languages have that same “A” sound that English has in words like apple, cash, mat, pad, etc.?
While I speak only English, I have a minor fascination with other languages. I’ve noticed that in every language I’ve looked at that uses the Roman alphabet, “a” is nearly always pronounced with an “ah” sound. Similarly, languages that use different alphabets or writing systems, when transliterated into the Roman alphabet always seem to use “A” to represent an “ah” sound, and don’t seem to contain an “‘A’ as in ‘apple’” sound. For example, Romanized Japanese represents various “a” sounds like so:
“ah” sound is written “a”
“ay” sound is written “ei” (eh-ee sounds run together to produce “ay”)
But “a” as in “apple”? No equivalent sound? None that I can find when looking at the Japanese hiragana (phonetic “alphabet”).
It appears, on the surface, that this particular sound is unique to English. Please correct me if I’m wrong.
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [March 29, 2008, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-a-as-in-apple-sound/443144/2 "2008-03-29T04:58:57Z")
Maybe the German ä? Kind of close, anyway.
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### Author:  [@Omi\_no\_Kami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omi_no_Kami)
#### Post date: [March 29, 2008, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-a-as-in-apple-sound/443144/3 "2008-03-29T05:14:43Z")
You’re thinking of the ash, or [near-open front unrounded vowel](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near-open_front_unrounded_vowel). The wiki article has a pretty good summary, including a list of some languages that use it.
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### Author:  [@ignis\_glaciesque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ignis_glaciesque)
#### Post date: [March 29, 2008, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-a-as-in-apple-sound/443144/4 "2008-03-29T05:19:55Z")
Well, Arabic kinda has a vowel that sounds like it, but it’s usually closer to ‘eh’ (as in ‘bet’).
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### Author:  [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)
#### Post date: [March 29, 2008, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-a-as-in-apple-sound/443144/5 "2008-03-29T05:36:28Z")
[QUOTE=Johnny L.A.]
Maybe the German ä? Kind of close, anyway.
[/QUOTE]
Kind of, but imo it’s stretching it.
äpfel (apple) sounds kind of like a mix between ep-fel, ip-fel, and ape-fel. It’s similar but it’s not the same sound (at least not the way I hear it).
Edit: But the “eh” sound has it drehen (to turn) for instance has that sound.
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### Author:  [@Themenin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Themenin)
#### Post date: [March 29, 2008, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-a-as-in-apple-sound/443144/6 "2008-03-29T08:28:41Z")
Well, without knowing how ‘apple’ is pronounced in central cascadia, it’s kind of a tough question. According to Webster (and me :)) ‘apple’ is pronounced \*\*'a-pəl\*\*, using the [open front unrounded vowel sound](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_front_unrounded_vowel). This is a sound that is common to many languages. A short ‘simple’ ‘a’ sound.
OTOH, a lot of people use a diphthong in the first syllable of ‘apple’ - so maybe that’s the sound you’re not hearing in other languages ? Is that the sound you’re talking about **Omi no Kami**?
Of course other languages have regional variations as well, so while you don’t hear a whole lot of diphthongs in Paris for example, they’re a lot more common in the south of France.
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### Author:  [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)
#### Post date: [March 29, 2008, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-a-as-in-apple-sound/443144/7 "2008-03-29T09:10:47Z")
French? _Sac_, for example, is not pronounced “sahk”. The A is pretty much like in “sack”.
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### Author:  [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)
#### Post date: [March 29, 2008, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-a-as-in-apple-sound/443144/8 "2008-03-29T12:19:06Z")
Surely Spanish and Italian, e.g. “naranja” and “cappuccino” respectively?
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### Author:  [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)
#### Post date: [March 29, 2008, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-a-as-in-apple-sound/443144/9 "2008-03-29T13:52:55Z")
[QUOTE=Themenin]
Well, without knowing how ‘apple’ is pronounced in central cascadia, it’s kind of a tough question. According to Webster (and me :)) ‘apple’ is pronounced \*\*'a-pəl\*\*, using the [open front unrounded vowel sound](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_front_unrounded_vowel). This is a sound that is common to many languages. A short ‘simple’ ‘a’ sound.
[/QUOTE]
The sound **Omi** and **Phase** are referring to is not the one in your link. It’s [the one right above it](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near-open_front_unrounded_vowel), the _near-open_ front unrounded vowel. Scroll down the page for examples in other languages (r.g. Finnish, Norwegian, Farsi).
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### Author:  [@Wakinyan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wakinyan)
#### Post date: [March 29, 2008, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-a-as-in-apple-sound/443144/10 "2008-03-29T14:53:16Z")
[QUOTE=Phase42]
Do any other languages have that same “A” sound that English has in words like apple, cash, mat, pad, etc.?
[/QUOTE]
The Swedish Ä.
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### Author:  [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)
#### Post date: [March 29, 2008, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-a-as-in-apple-sound/443144/11 "2008-03-29T15:08:39Z")
[QUOTE=bordelond]
The sound **Omi** and **Phase** are referring to is not the one in your link. It’s [the one right above it](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near-open_front_unrounded_vowel), the _near-open_ front unrounded vowel. Scroll down the page for examples in other languages (r.g. Finnish, Norwegian, Farsi).
[/QUOTE]
Yes. The open-rounded front-vowel sound is more like an “ah” or short o, not the North American short a.
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### Author:  [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)
#### Post date: [March 29, 2008, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-a-as-in-apple-sound/443144/12 "2008-03-29T15:16:05Z")
[QUOTE=pulykamell]
Yes. The open-rounded front-vowel sound is more like an “ah” or short o, not the North American short a.
[/QUOTE]
That should be “open front unrounded vowel.”
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### Author:  [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)
#### Post date: [March 29, 2008, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-a-as-in-apple-sound/443144/13 "2008-03-29T16:20:16Z")
The Hungarian \<á\> is usually transcribed phonetically as /æ/, at least among Hungarian phoneticians. While the sound is slightly different from the English /æ/, it’s close enough. (/æ/ being, of course, the IPA transcription for the standard English pronunciation of the \ in apple).
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### Author:  [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)
#### Post date: [March 29, 2008, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-a-as-in-apple-sound/443144/14 "2008-03-29T16:26:27Z")
[QUOTE=psychonaut]
The Hungarian \<á\> is usually transcribed phonetically as /æ/, at least among Hungarian phoneticians. While the sound is slightly different from the English /æ/, it’s close enough. (/æ/ being, of course, the IPA transcription for the standard English pronunciation of the \ in apple).
[/QUOTE]
The Hungarian “á” does _not_ sound like a short a in American English. It’s an open front unrounded vowel. The IPA symbol for the sound is “a:”, which is similar to an “ahhhh” sound. For a general American English accent, the short “o” sound is the closest to the Hungarian “á.”
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### Author:  [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)
#### Post date: [March 29, 2008, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-a-as-in-apple-sound/443144/15 "2008-03-29T16:30:13Z")
According to the [vowel chart shown on this page](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_phonology), Hungarian short “e” (as in **ez** ) closely approaches American English /æ/. There are sure to be dialectical variations, of course.
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### Author:  [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)
#### Post date: [March 29, 2008, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-a-as-in-apple-sound/443144/16 "2008-03-29T16:32:50Z")
[QUOTE=bordelond]
According to the [vowel chart shown on this page](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_phonology), Hungarian short “e” (as in **ez** ) closely approaches American English /æ/. There are sure to be dialectical variations, of course.
[/QUOTE]
Yes, “e” is much closer, but still, to my ears, sounds closer to an American English short e than the short a. It’s in the ballpark, but I don’t think an American English speaker would hear the Hungarian word _ez_ (“that”) as “azz,” but rather “ezz.”
edit:
[If you look here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-mid_front_unrounded_vowel), you’ll see the Hungarian “e” corresponds to the General American English short e exactly, at least according to the IPA symbols for the sounds, so the Hungarian _ez_ and the American English _bed_ contain the same vowel sound.
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### Author:  [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)
#### Post date: [March 29, 2008, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-a-as-in-apple-sound/443144/17 "2008-03-29T19:49:32Z")
> [@Usram](#):
>
> French? Sac, for example, is not pronounced “sahk”. The A is pretty much like in “sack”.
Okay, there’s one.
[QUOTE=Dead Cat]
Surely Spanish and Italian, e.g. “naranja” and “cappuccino” respectively?
[/QUOTE]
I’m with you on “cappuccino”, but every Mexican I know pronounces all the A’s in “naranja” with the “ah” sound.
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### Author:  [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)
#### Post date: [March 29, 2008, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-a-as-in-apple-sound/443144/18 "2008-03-29T19:55:22Z")
This is a very important lesson for anyone going to Asia.
It’s almost always pronounced ‘aw’.
Java = Jawvaw
Bali = Bawli
If you learn only one pronunciation rule, learn this one, it will serve you very well.
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### Author:  [@Themenin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Themenin)
#### Post date: [March 29, 2008, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-a-as-in-apple-sound/443144/19 "2008-03-29T20:16:35Z")
> [@bordelond](#):
>
> The sound Omi and Phase are referring to is not the one in your link. It’s the one right above it, the near-open front unrounded vowel. Scroll down the page for examples in other languages (r.g. Finnish, Norwegian, Farsi).
OK, I’m a little mixed up with the phonetic symbols, but I think I’m getting it. Although the wikipedia sound sample for ‘near-open front unrounded’ is slightly more diphthongized than what I would call the standard (potato, potahto…) I guess we’re talking about the same short ‘a’ found in ‘cat’ ‘mat’ etc. So assuming the OP’s accent is close to the wikipedia sample, I would say this is a very common sound around the Mediterranean - as a previous poster mentioned - French _sac_ has pretty much the same ‘a’ as English _sack_ - or Spanish _sacar_ depending on the speaker’s regional accent. Or staying closer to _apple_ - _appel_, _apellido_. OTOH I would agree that the stronger diphthong, or the US southern vowel sounds are less common -some Russian vowels kind of head that way.
On preview - re ‘naranja’, I guess it really depends on regional differences
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### Author:  [@auRa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/auRa)
#### Post date: [March 29, 2008, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-a-as-in-apple-sound/443144/20 "2008-03-29T21:45:07Z")
[QUOTE=Wakinyan]
The Swedish Ä.
[/QUOTE]
Really? I would pronounce the Swedish ä as the vowel sound in the words “let” or “metal”, for example in words like “människa”, “äventyr” and “hjält”.
The Finnish ä, on the other hand, is always the “a” as in “apple” sound.
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