# THat Canadian-Syrian Guy on "60 Minutes" Last Night-Is He Innocent? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 22, 2004, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-canadian-syrian-guy-on-60-minutes-last-night-is-he-innocent/225624 "2004-01-22T14:19:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2004, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-canadian-syrian-guy-on-60-minutes-last-night-is-he-innocent/225624/21 "2004-01-25T15:32:44Z")
> [@Eva Luna](#): > > Decisions to send someone back are also supposed to be reviewed by a supervisor, I believe. > > Given that Arar wasn’t convicted of anything, he shouldn’t have been sent anywhere, let alone to Syria, at least not on the basis that the Feds are alleging. Normally the only reason a person would be subjected to expedited removal is if there was evidence that he had committed fraud, such as lying about the purpose of the visit. But given that he was just changing planes, I can’t even conceive of how he ended up being deported; he wouldn’t have had any reason to pass through immigration if he was just waiting for a connecting flight. **Eva** , I don’t have a cite, but news reports here in Canada indicate that he was deported under a special national security provision, not the usual immigration laws. That power can only be exercised if authorised by fairly high-ranking officials in the Justice Department. I believe the official who signed it had a rank something like Assistant Attorney General. As for how he came to the attention of authorities if he was just transferring - well, isn’t that what the security watch lists are all about, just like those planes that were turned back at Christmas time? This wasn’t an immigration matter at all - it was supposedly national security. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2004, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-canadian-syrian-guy-on-60-minutes-last-night-is-he-innocent/225624/22 "2004-01-25T15:44:02Z")
> [@Northern Piper](#): > > \*\*As for how he came to the attention of authorities if he was just transferring - well, isn’t that what the security watch lists are all about, just like those planes that were turned back at Christmas time? This wasn’t an immigration matter at all - it was supposedly national security. Maybe so, but from his description it sounds like he was waiting in the regular information line, not that the Feds snatched him when he walked off the plane. As for who needs to sign off on a deportation like that, I’ll do some poking around at work this week re: required judicial review, national security, and the Convention Against Torture. The interrelationship between these items under case law is still very much under debate. Eva Luna, Immigration Paralegal ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2004, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-canadian-syrian-guy-on-60-minutes-last-night-is-he-innocent/225624/23 "2004-01-25T22:01:32Z")
> [@Eva Luna](#): > > What it doesn’t explain, though, is how he ever ended up going through immigration inspection in the first place. If he was just changing planes and didn’t want to leave the international area of the airport, he shouldn’t have needed to. Are you sure? I’m not certain how this works, but the last time I changed planes in the US (in 1999), I definitely had to show my ID to someone in uniform, who resembled a customs officer and who typed it into their computer. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2004, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-canadian-syrian-guy-on-60-minutes-last-night-is-he-innocent/225624/24 "2004-01-25T22:48:03Z")
At the moment, my money is on Arar being innocent, but that is beside the point. We have a Canadian citizen here being sent off for the purpose of further interogation through torture pure and simple. No respect for Canada here, and no respect for human rights. For Ashcroft to say that they got assurances that there would be no torture is a cruel joke. It underscores his expectation of torture and explains why the more expensive Syrian trip won out over a quick trip to Canada. Claims of Canadian permission, (from whom, the cops ?) are ridiculous. People that know me, know that I’m generally a US government supporter on the war on terrorism, but in my books Ashcroft should be fired outright and we need to find out if Canadian officials can be implicated. This really angers me. ---
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2004, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-canadian-syrian-guy-on-60-minutes-last-night-is-he-innocent/225624/25 "2004-01-26T00:50:44Z")
> [@Eva Luna](#): > > What it doesn’t explain, though, is how he ever ended up going through immigration inspection in the first place. If he was just changing planes and didn’t want to leave the international area of the airport, he shouldn’t have needed to. Flights to and from Canada are handled differently from all other international flights in the U.S. In particular, they generally depart from the domestic terminals, like flights within the U.S. So Arar would have had to go through U.S. Immigration at the international terminal (or area) before getting on a flight back to Montreal. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2004, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-canadian-syrian-guy-on-60-minutes-last-night-is-he-innocent/225624/26 "2004-01-26T03:53:10Z")
> [@MikeS](#): > > Flights to and from Canada are handled differently from all other international flights in the U.S. In particular, they generally depart from the domestic terminals, like flights within the U.S. So Arar would have had to go through U.S. Immigration at the international terminal (or area) before getting on a flight back to Montreal. Good point; I hadn’t thought about that. Oddly enough, I’ve been to Siberia, but never to Canada. (I know, I know, it’s on my list!) ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2004, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-canadian-syrian-guy-on-60-minutes-last-night-is-he-innocent/225624/27 "2004-01-26T04:57:07Z")
> [@](#): > > _ **MikeS** said:_ > Flights to and from Canada are handled differently from all other international flights in the U.S. In particular, they generally depart from the domestic terminals, like flights within the U.S. So Arar would have had to go through U.S. Immigration at the international terminal (or area) before getting on a flight back to Montreal. Not quite. From Toronto and other large airports in Canada, transborder flights direct to the US are cleared by US customs and immigration _on the ground in Canada_. They are effectively US domestic flights once they leave the ground, and have a much greater choice of destinations since they do not need custom and immigration services on arrival. There are many commuter-type airlines out of Toronto going to smaller cities all over the US north east. Last year, I was ‘pre-cleared’ in Toronto when going to Cincinnati. When coming back, the plane landed in Toronto and I had to go through Canadian customs and immigration as usual. Now, if Arar was just changing planes, he should have remained in the transit area and never have had to pass through US Immigration… _but_ I have heard that the US does not operate transit areas outside their immigration control at their airports: everyone touching US soil must encounter US immigration, even if they are merely traveling on and have no intention of actually visiting the US! **Eva Luna** , is this true? If so, this explains how they got Arar. When I went from Canada to Europe, I changed planes in Amsterdam and did not encounter immigration controls intil the end of the journey in Helsinki. I agree, the Arar case stinks, and not just on the US side of the border. [Headlines](http://news.google.ca/news?hl=en&edition=ca&q=Maher+Arar&btnG=Search+News) last week were abaout the federal police\* raiding the _home_ of a journalist who wrote about the story in the Ottawa Citizen last novenber. [sub]\*the Gendarmerie Royaux Canadien, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, the famous Mounties[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2004, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-canadian-syrian-guy-on-60-minutes-last-night-is-he-innocent/225624/28 "2004-01-26T05:08:17Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > Now, if Arar was just changing planes, he should have remained in the transit area and never have had to pass through US Immigration… _but_ I have heard that the US does not operate transit areas outside their immigration control at their airports: everyone touching US soil must encounter US immigration, even if they are merely traveling on and have no intention of actually visiting the US! **Eva Luna** , is this true? If so, this explains how they got Arar. I’m not sure, never having had to take a connecting domestic flight after arriving in the U.S. from abroad; I’ve always left the airport right after my initial arrival from abroad. That might be the case in some airports, maybe smaller ones that don’t have a whole international terminal. and I honestly can’t remember the layout of JFK (it’s been almost 9 years since I arrived there from abroad). Maybe someone who’s done this recently can clarify. Since the recent abolition of the Transit Without Visa program, though, this might now be the case. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2004, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-canadian-syrian-guy-on-60-minutes-last-night-is-he-innocent/225624/29 "2004-01-26T05:28:10Z")
“Transit without Visa” program? What was that? ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2004, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-canadian-syrian-guy-on-60-minutes-last-night-is-he-innocent/225624/30 "2004-01-26T06:20:20Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > “Transit without Visa” program? What was that? Basically, it meant that if your nationality meant that you would normally need a visitor visa to enter the U.S., but you were only changing flights and didn’t need to leave the airport, you were exempt from the visa requirement. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2004, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-canadian-syrian-guy-on-60-minutes-last-night-is-he-innocent/225624/31 "2004-01-26T13:35:06Z")
That’s what I thought. But it still seems to imply that the person would need to pass immigration control, even if they weren’t leaving the airport. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-canadian-syrian-guy-on-60-minutes-last-night-is-he-innocent/225624/32 "2004-01-29T02:10:10Z")
I am glad to say that the Canadian federal government has bowed to pressure and is going to conduct an [inquiry](http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1075291136761&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154) into who said what to the US immigration authorities. [GoogleNews search on ‘Maher Arar’](http://news.google.ca/news?hl=en&edition=ca&q=Maher+Arar&btnG=Search+News) ---
**Author:** ![spanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@spanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spanna)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-canadian-syrian-guy-on-60-minutes-last-night-is-he-innocent/225624/33 "2004-01-29T08:49:28Z")
Now I understand what “Land of the Free” means. If you are a US citizen you are free and have rights, the rest of the world can be jailed and tortured without access to any defense. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![cowgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cowgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cowgirl)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-canadian-syrian-guy-on-60-minutes-last-night-is-he-innocent/225624/34 "2004-01-29T19:25:52Z")
(Anecdotally: when I flew through the US I had to go through some kind of procedure where my passport was checked - and that was before 9/11 - I had the dubious pleasure of spending the night in Miami Airport during the Florida Vote, watching CNN. Ugh.) I am thrilled that there will be an inquiry, but utterly cynical about the timing. Now Paul Martin can have an election without everyone asking him ‘What about the inquiry?’ - but the results of said inquiry won’t be out until well after the election. Best of both worlds, he gets. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-canadian-syrian-guy-on-60-minutes-last-night-is-he-innocent/225624/35 "2004-01-29T19:36:12Z")
An interesting [opinion column](http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1075331417258&call_pageid=968332188774&col=968350116467) from Today’s Toronto Star. > [@](#): > > On the face of it, a public inquiry seems politically shrewd. There is significant support for Arar… For the government, a probe narrowly focused on the RCMP would be best. But O’Connor may not oblige. In his Walkerton inquiry, he didn’t shy away from wading into broad political issues. Let us hope he takes the same approach here. > > The Arar case is not just about so-called rogue Mounties feeding dubious information to the Americans. Nor is the Arar case just about Maher Arar. > > At base, it is about Canada’s security relationship with the United States in the post 9/11 world… [and] whether Canadian security agencies should so freely share information with rogue governments. …O’Connor may also want to look at how security investigations at home mysteriously resulted in Canadians other than Arar being imprisoned abroad. ---
**Author:** ![St.Urho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8e7dd6/32.png) [@St.Urho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St.Urho)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-canadian-syrian-guy-on-60-minutes-last-night-is-he-innocent/225624/36 "2004-01-29T21:29:37Z")
> [@Eva Luna](#): > > I’m not sure, never having had to take a connecting domestic flight after arriving in the U.S. from abroad; I’ve always left the airport right after my initial arrival from abroad. That might be the case in some airports, maybe smaller ones that don’t have a whole international terminal. and I honestly can’t remember the layout of JFK (it’s been almost 9 years since I arrived there from abroad). Maybe someone who’s done this recently can clarify. Since the recent abolition of the Transit Without Visa program, though, this might now be the case. I haven’t made a connecting flight since 1996. We flew from Paris to Chicago (O’Hare) direct then caught a connecting flight to home in Michigan. We cleared US Customs at O’Hare. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-canadian-syrian-guy-on-60-minutes-last-night-is-he-innocent/225624.md?page=1)