# That CRAAAAAAAAZY conspiracy theory: the mass firings of US Attorneys **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 6, 2007, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824 "2007-03-06T17:45:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2007, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/181 "2007-03-17T04:07:42Z")
My take at this point is Bush’s options are narrowing by the second vis-a-vis Gonzales. He has to let him go. Gonzales is now an open, festering wound on the protruding, exposed back-side of the republican party, and everyone’s pointing at it in disgust. Folks were saying a few days ago that Sampson was being made into the Scooter Libby, or fall guy, of the Justice Dept. scandal, but I’d say it’d be more accurate to place Gonzales in that role. Gonzales has always been mediocre and not a great intellect, by any stretch. The fact that he’s also a lying weasel just makes him easy to despise. Latching onto Bush’s coattails should have been the best thing he ever did for his career, but incompetence eventually, inevitably, always rises to the surface. However, inasmuch as Gonzales fulfilled his true role of circumventing and manipulating laws to Bush’s ultimate advantage he had a value. Rove, however, _is_ the Bush White House, and Bush knows where his bread is buttered. I believe Bush will throw anyone, even his old pal Al, into the wood chipper to Protect Rove, and it’s beginning to look like it may come to that. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2007, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/182 "2007-03-17T22:13:32Z")
[QUOTE=Onomatopoeia] Folks were saying a few days ago that Sampson was being made into the Scooter Libby, or fall guy, of the Justice Dept. scandal, but I’d say it’d be more accurate to place Gonzales in that role. [/QUOTE] That’s because Sampson was an ‘attempted fall guy’. Sadly for the Bushies, they offered him up **before** all the evidence was out. If ol’ Dub wants to protect the rest of his cronies he might want to make sure that the rest of the incriminating information comes out before he puts Al’s plump neck on the chopping block. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2007, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/183 "2007-03-17T22:39:07Z")
[QUOTE=Merijeek] If ol’ Dub wants to protect the rest of his cronies he might want to make sure that the rest of the incriminating information comes out before he puts Al’s plump neck on the chopping block. [/QUOTE] No no! Sacrifice Al now! Then we can speculate about who will be tossed overboard _next_ (and how many people are ahead of Rove in Dubya’s priority queue). ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2007, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/184 "2007-03-18T17:33:24Z")
> [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > Gonzales is now an open, festering wound on the protruding, exposed back-side of the republican party, and everyone’s pointing at it in disgust. You, sir, are a poet. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2007, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/185 "2007-03-18T17:56:56Z")
On a different note, stories like this seem to happen all the time and are proof that the government sucks at conspiracies. They can’t even keep something mundane like this hidden. At the very least, even if they **can** hide something for several years it’ll eventually come out either through declassified papers or people talking, like all that juicy CIA stuff from the Cold War. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2007, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/186 "2007-03-18T19:46:02Z")
[QUOTE=Merijeek] That’s because Sampson was an ‘attempted fall guy’. Sadly for the Bushies, they offered him up **before** all the evidence was out. [/QUOTE] In realization that he didn’t fall on his sword but was pushed onto it, he has now \*requested \* to testify to the Senate - says Schumer this AM, that is. Pull up a chair and bring some popcorn. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2007, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/187 "2007-03-18T21:15:14Z")
[QUOTE=elelle] From Brain Glutton’s link: Umm, sorry, no, we wouldn’t put up with this crap from a middle schooler weaseling out of an infraction; it’s embarrassing that government officials can claim “hazy memories” about important decisions. If they lack in that capacity, they shouldn’t be entrusted with the job. [/QUOTE] Yes, well, middle schoolers have no constitutional status, electoral mandate or power base. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2007, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/188 "2007-03-18T22:03:56Z")
His point was that over-35’s who think like middle schoolers _do_. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2007, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/189 "2007-03-18T22:55:15Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] In realization that he didn’t fall on his sword but was pushed onto it, he has now \*requested \* to testify to the Senate - says Schumer this AM, that is. Pull up a chair and bring some popcorn. [/QUOTE] Eh, I doubt he was pushed onto his sword so much as ‘nudged’. Thing is, that’s what happens to all of them eventually. The pertinent question is this: Why is a high-paying job-for-life at a “think tank” that involves absolutely no responsibility not enough of a payoff for this particular guy? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2007, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/190 "2007-03-18T22:59:02Z")
[QUOTE=Merijeek] Eh, I doubt he was pushed onto his sword so much as ‘nudged’. Thing is, that’s what happens to all of them eventually. [/QUOTE] That’s fairly typical. Unless you’re in the very inner, inner circle (Rove, Meiers, Gonzales, Cheney, Rice) Loyalty Street in Dubya City is one-way restricted… ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2007, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/191 "2007-03-18T23:00:50Z")
[QUOTE=jayjay] That’s fairly typical. Unless you’re in the very inner, inner circle (Rove, Meiers, Gonzales, Cheney, Rice) Loyalty Street in Dubya City is one-way restricted… [/QUOTE] Sure, but they’ve all kept their traps shut until now. Up till now that loyalty has remained, even after their self-impalement. This could be interesting…but after a few threatening phone calls he’ll probably forget some details. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2007, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/192 "2007-03-18T23:25:22Z")
[QUOTE=Merijeek] …but after a few threatening phone calls he’ll probably forget some details. -Joe [/QUOTE] It’s a disgusting indictment on our political system that the thought would even cross our minds for those in goverment to employ Mafia-like tactics to get what they want, but I wouldn’t put it past this bunch. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2007, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/193 "2007-03-18T23:42:20Z")
[QUOTE=Onomatopoeia] It’s a disgusting indictment on our political system that the thought would even cross our minds for those in goverment to employ Mafia-like tactics to get what they want, but I wouldn’t put it past this bunch. ☹ [/QUOTE] Well, he’s “on their side”, so he’s more likely a negotiating tactic to convince him to “forget” for a better apres-job deal. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/194 "2007-03-19T04:25:30Z")
[U.S. attorney’s firing may be connected to CIA corruption probe](http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/politics/16931329.htm) > [@](#): > > Feinstein said Lam notified the Justice Department on May 10, 2006, that she planned to serve search warrants on Kyle Dustin “Dusty” Foggo, who’d resigned two days earlier as the No. 3 official at the CIA. > > On May 11, 2006, Kyle Sampson, then Gonzales’ chief of staff, sent an e-mail to deputy White House counsel William Kelley, asking Kelley to call to discuss “the real problem we have right now with Carol Lam that leads me to conclude that we should have someone ready to be nominated on 11/18, the day her 4-year term expires.” The article doesn’t say, but the warrants _were_ executed, and Foggo _was_ indicted: [Ousted CIA No. 3 Is Target of Raids](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/12/AR2006051200989.html) > [@](#): > > Saturday, May 13, 2006 > **Foggo’s Home and Langley Office Swept in Corruption Probe** > Federal agents yesterday searched the CIA offices and Northern Virginia home of Kyle “Dusty” Foggo, the spy agency’s No. 3 official who was forced to resign this week amid a widening criminal investigation into allegations of government corruption and bribery. > > Officials inside CIA headquarters saw agents hauling away items from Foggo’s seventh-floor suite, and neighbors outside his rented house in the Oakdale Park section of Vienna said officers, some wearing plastic gloves, placed materials in vans parked at the front and rear of the split-level brick home. [Indicted CIA Official Was in Charge of Ethics](http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0207/2823.html) > [@](#): > > The high-ranking CIA official accused of steering contracts to a childhood friend once oversaw ethics at the agency, according to federal charging papers. > > The case against Kyle “Dusty” Foggo, whose indictment is linked to the investigation that landed former Rep. Randy “Duke” Cunningham, R-Calif… ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/195 "2007-03-19T13:45:34Z")
Before we continue with this debate I think we need to remind ourselves that what the Admin is accused of – using the Justice Department for partisan political purposes – is not strictly speaking **illegal.** (Unless someone can cite contrary statutory authority?) It is simply something that is “not done.” Which does not mean it might not be an impeachable offense (definition of which is a political, not a legal or judicial, decision), nor that other real crimes might not have been committed in the course of this business. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/196 "2007-03-19T14:11:41Z")
Couldn’t replacing a US Attorney because he was investigating or not investigating a certain case be construed as obstruction of justice? ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/197 "2007-03-19T14:12:58Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Before we continue with this debate I think we need to remind ourselves that what the Admin is accused of – using the Justice Department for partisan political purposes – is not strictly speaking **illegal.** (Unless someone can cite contrary statutory authority?) It is simply something that is “not done.” Which does not mean it might not be an impeachable offense (definition of which is a political, not a legal or judicial, decision), nor that other real crimes might not have been committed in the course of this business. [/QUOTE] If the attorney prosecuting a case is removed from office for the purposes of preventing prosecution of a crime, it seems to me that we’re looking at some sort of conspiracy. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/198 "2007-03-19T14:30:35Z")
NPR’s program _On The Media_ ran a [story on March 16](http://www.onthemedia.org/transcripts/2007/03/16/01) about communications professor John Cragan’s study of the ratio of Democrats versus Republicans investigated or prosecuted under this administration. From the evidence available to him and his colleagues in the study, the ratio was 7:1. You can read more about it [here](http://www.epluribusmedia.org/columns/2007/20070212_political_profiling.html). Blind justice, is it? Or blinded? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/199 "2007-03-19T14:52:32Z")
[http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2005/08/08/bush\_removal\_ended\_guam\_investigation/](http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2005/08/08/bush_removal_ended_guam_investigation/) They did it before and got away with it. No public outcry then. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/200 "2007-03-19T15:09:37Z")
[QUOTE=EddyTeddyFreddy] NPR’s program _On The Media_ ran a [story on March 16](http://www.onthemedia.org/transcripts/2007/03/16/01) about communications professor John Cragan’s study of the ratio of Democrats versus Republicans investigated or prosecuted under this administration. From the evidence available to him and his colleagues in the study, the ratio was 7:1. You can read more about it [here](http://www.epluribusmedia.org/columns/2007/20070212_political_profiling.html). [/QUOTE] While my gut reaction is to accept that the highly partisan (and politico-theological) beliefs of Bush and his successive AG henchmen would lend themselves to partisan enforcement, I would really prefer to see a similar study conducted on the Clinton era investigations before I leapt to the conclusion that this was more than politics as usual. Certainly, I will probably indulge myself with a bit of _schadenfreude_ if Cragan’s survey turns out to provide one more example of the moral bankruptcy of the guy who claimed that he was going to restore morality to the White House, but if he is not guilty of this charge, he is already guilty of enough others that we should refrain from indulging in false (or premature) accusations. The current flap seems pretty clear to me, but we have the evidence that the eight mid-term, same-party firings are extraordinary and the testimony that attorneys with good performance reviews were being fired for “poor performance.” I am not sure that we have similar evidence regarding Cragan’s study if we do not know what sort of trend such examinations typically follow from one administration to another. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824.md?page=11)