# That CRAAAAAAAAZY conspiracy theory: the mass firings of US Attorneys **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 6, 2007, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824 "2007-03-06T17:45:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2007, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/221 "2007-03-29T19:40:34Z")
Meanwhile, [Sampson says Gonzalez and Miers **were** involved in the firings.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/29/AR2007032900352.html?hpid=topnews) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/222 "2007-04-04T19:25:07Z")
Interesting [article](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/31/AR2007033101158.html) from WaPo: > [@](#): > > About one-third of the nearly four dozen U.S. attorney’s jobs that have changed hands since President Bush began his second term have been filled by the White House and the Justice Department with trusted administration insiders. > > The people chosen as chief federal prosecutors on a temporary or permanent basis since early 2005 include 10 senior aides to Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales, according to an analysis of government records. Several came from the White House or other government agencies. Some lacked experience as prosecutors or had no connection to the districts in which they were sent to work, the records and biographical information show. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2007, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/223 "2007-04-05T15:06:31Z")
And now [Gonzalez is preparing and preparing and preparing his testimony, aided by experts, as if he were getting ready for a confirmation hearing.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/04/AR2007040402614.html?hpid=topnews) ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2007, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/224 "2007-04-05T15:29:22Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] And now [Gonzalez is preparing and preparing and preparing his testimony, aided by experts, as if he were getting ready for a confirmation hearing.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/04/AR2007040402614.html?hpid=topnews) [/QUOTE] It isn’t like there are THAT many moving parts to this story, at least that we know about so far. If the truth sufficed as a publicly palatable explanation, it’s hard to see how more than a few hours’ prep would be necessary. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2007, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/225 "2007-04-05T15:31:59Z")
And this bit of comedy gold from Sen Orrin Kvetch, _in re_ Carol Lam… > [@](#): > > …She was a former law professor, with no prosecutorial experience, and the former campaign manager in Southern California for Clinton… Not true, of course. Not a word. (With thanks to Talking Point Memo, without which no citizen can hope to be well informed…) [http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/013448.php](http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/013448.php) ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2007, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/226 "2007-04-05T16:37:11Z")
Of course, the story keeps getting bigger. The LA Times reported last week on allegations of [politicization of the Civil Rights Division of the DoJ](http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-usattys25mar25,0,4756977,full.story?coll=la-home-headlines): > [@](#): > > Not only have two of eight recently fired U.S. attorneys complained that in specific cases they felt pressure to make decisions that would advance Republican political interests, but last week several former career officials in the Justice Department said they had felt similar pressures on voting rights cases. > > “The political decision-making process that led to the dismissal of eight United States attorneys was standard practice in the Civil Rights Division years before these revelations,” Joseph D. Rich, recently retired head of the division’s voting rights section, said in a sparsely attended House Judiciary Subcommittee hearing last week. > > “This connection should not be minimized,” he said. > > \ > > Some Civil Rights Division veterans — mostly Democrats — have been expressing concern for months. But last week more officials spoke out about what they described as a pattern of partisan decision-making on individual cases. > > They said their superiors, who were political appointees, repeatedly bottled up cases that might harm the electoral position of Republicans while encouraging the staff to pursue matters that might damage Democrats’ prospects. Of course, the companion of politicization is hackification, since people who are willing to make decisions based on the politics rather than the facts are usually people who don’t care that much about the facts to begin with. So a paragraph in [this story about the cover-up of abuses in Texas juvenile facilities](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/04/AR2007040402400.html) caught my eye (bolding mine): > [@](#): > > The exposés were followed by legislative committee testimony from Brian Burzynski, a Texas Ranger who investigated the allegations and tried futilely for two years to get the crimes prosecuted. **He said – and documents subsequently made public showed – that he was thwarted for various reasons by** TYC headquarters personnel, the Ward County district attorney, the Texas attorney general’s office, \*\*the civil rights division of the Justice Department, and the U.S. attorney \*\*with jurisdiction over Pyote, west of Odessa, where the West Texas State School is located. I’m not alleging any political motivation to this coverup, just that stuff like this - in this case, the coverup of rape and other abuse of juvenile prisoners - is a natural, to-be-expected side effect of the sort of cronyism and hackery that goes with politicization. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2007, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/227 "2007-04-05T21:20:33Z")
[In other news . . .](http://www.theonion.com/content/news/heroic_secret_service_agent_takes) ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2007, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/228 "2007-04-06T21:50:23Z")
[Goodling is out](http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003654651_webattorneys06.html). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2007, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/229 "2007-04-06T22:16:49Z")
[New evidence](http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/local/index.php?ntid=128161) that a Bush-appointed U.S. Attorney maliciously prosecuted an innocent woman for political purposes … . **Boyo Jim** started a thread on it [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=415535). ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2007, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/230 "2007-04-06T22:23:38Z")
If a Democrat wins the presidency, I think the first thing that he should do is rehire those fired Attorneys, even if they are Republican friendly. It seems pretty obvious that they consider doing their job correctly more important than partisan politics, so I see no reason that their party affiliation should make any difference. I noticed in one of the links that one of the fired attorneys cited John Ashcroft, who apparently said “Politics have no part of your job at U.S. attorney”. The shit has hit the fan when I come to the conclusion that Ashcroft was a better AG than what we have now. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2007, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/231 "2007-04-06T23:14:10Z")
[QUOTE=Pochacco] [New evidence](http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/local/index.php?ntid=128161) that a Bush-appointed U.S. Attorney maliciously prosecuted an innocent woman for political purposes … . **Boyo Jim** started a thread on it [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=415535). [/QUOTE] And in Wisconsin, a swing state. Who’d’a thunk? [Meanwhile, next door in Minnesota](http://www.startribune.com/462/story/1104033.html)…hey, isn’t Minnesota a swing state too? What a coinkydink! ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2007, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/232 "2007-04-07T08:36:22Z")
Alternatively, it’s about porn: http: [//susiebright.blogs.com/susie\_brights\_journal\_/2007/04/the\_sexual\_poli.html](https://susiebright.blogs.com/susie_brights_journal_/2007/04/the_sexual_poli.html) (link broken because it’s NSFW) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2007, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/233 "2007-04-07T18:09:18Z")
[QUOTE=DMC] I noticed in one of the links that one of the fired attorneys cited John Ashcroft, who apparently said “Politics have no part of your job at U.S. attorney”. The shit has hit the fan when I come to the conclusion that Ashcroft was a better AG than what we have now. [/QUOTE] Errmm . . . look, just because Ashcroft said that doesn’t mean he meant it. Gonzalez has said quite similar things. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2007, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/234 "2007-04-08T05:04:26Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Errmm . . . look, just because Ashcroft said that doesn’t mean he meant it. Gonzalez has said quite similar things. [/QUOTE] But Ashcroft actually said it in private to one of the attorneys. Don’t get me wrong, Aschcroft was bad. I’m just noting that it’s pretty scary when I think that even he might be a better choice than the current AG. It’s much like pining for Nixon these days. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2007, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/235 "2007-04-10T20:38:42Z")
Update: [The House Judiciary Committee has subpoenaed Gonzalez to produce hundreds of pages of new documents.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/10/AR2007041000839.html?hpid=topnews) ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2007, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/236 "2007-04-10T21:27:04Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Update: [The House Judiciary Committee has subpoenaed Gonzalez to produce hundreds of pages of new documents.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/10/AR2007041000839.html?hpid=topnews) [/QUOTE] [Christy Hardin Smith’s favorite paragraph](http://www.thespotlightproject.org/tsp.php?blogUrl=http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/04/10/breaking-rep-conyers-issues-subpoena-duces-tecum-for-doj-docs/) (and mine too) from [Conyers’ letter](http://judiciary.house.gov/Media/PDFS/AGSubpoena070410.pdf): > [@](#): > > The Department is currently withholding significant information concerning U.S. Attorneys who were considered for termination but were ultimately retained, and concerning individuals considered as replacement candidates. This information is clearly relevant to our inquiry into indications that U.S. Attorneys and candidates may have been evaluated based on improper considerations, including their willingness to make decisions as to prosecution of public corruption cases based on whether it helped, or hurt, partisan political objectives. Underlining mine. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2007, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/237 "2007-04-11T01:04:19Z")
A very interesting [article](http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat?pid=184248) on the official activities of some of the USA’s who **didn’t** get fired. True, all USAs serve at the pleasure of the POTUS and can be fired for any reason or none; but with the above, we’re starting to get into impeachable-offense territory. Same with [WH staff using non-WH e-mail servers for official business,](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2007/04/10/BL2007041000832.html?hpid=topnews) a clear attempt to circumvent the Presidential Records Act. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/238 "2007-04-12T00:56:30Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Same with [WH staff using non-WH e-mail servers for official business,](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2007/04/10/BL2007041000832.html?hpid=topnews) a clear attempt to circumvent the Presidential Records Act. [/QUOTE] > [@](#): > > The White House said Wednesday it had mishandled Republican Party-sponsored e-mail accounts used by nearly two dozen presidential aides, resulting in the loss of an undetermined number of e-mails concerning official White House business. > … > staffers used their RNC accounts instead of White House accounts to discuss the prosecutor issue or conduct other official business for several reasons… [http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/journalgazette/17062173.htm](http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/journalgazette/17062173.htm) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/239 "2007-04-12T01:00:58Z")
Well, darn the luck! ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/240 "2007-04-12T01:07:35Z")
Isn’t that admission more than enough to provoke some sort of prosecution for attempting to evade the Presidential Records Act? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824.md?page=13)