# That CRAAAAAAAAZY conspiracy theory: the mass firings of US Attorneys **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 6, 2007, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824 "2007-03-06T17:45:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/241 "2007-04-13T18:57:05Z")
Now it appears [five replacement attorneys were picked almost a year before the attorneys in question were fired, contrary to earlier WH denials.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/13/AR2007041301154.html?hpid=topnews) [More on them there e-mails.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/linkset/2005/04/11/LI2005041100879.html?hpid=topnews) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/242 "2007-04-13T19:16:36Z")
Did you catch the part about how membership in the Federalist Society was tracked in candidate consideration? [http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/13/federalist-attorneys/](http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/13/federalist-attorneys/) (Warning! Decidedly lefty site! Hazardous fact warning, tighty rightys advised to proceed Shields Up!..) ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/243 "2007-04-13T20:59:28Z")
Various tidbits, all from Salon: > [@](#): > > Karl Rove’s lawyer tells the Associated Press that his client never meant to delete any e-mails from the servers at the Republican National Committee. And while Bob Luskin apparently concedes that Rove may have deleted numerous e-mails from his RNC-supplied BlackBerry or laptop, he says that Rove would have done so only to keep his in box neat and orderly. Uh huh. > [@](#): > > New prosecutor purge documents just released by the House Judiciary Committee provide more reason to believe that the White House was involved not just in the decision to fire federal prosecutors last year but in the way it was spun to Congress. > > On March 6, 2007, several of the ousted U.S. attorneys testified before the Senate Judiciary Committee. One day before that meeting, Justice Department spokeswoman Tasia Scolinos e-mailed Dan Bartlett and Cathie Martin to provide her advice on how the administration should “muddy the coverage up a bit” by switching the discussion from the reasons for why the prosecutors were fired to the way in which they were informed. Oh, goody. > [@](#): > > When reporters asked White House spokeswoman Dana Perino on March 27 about White House officials’ use of private, Republican National Committee e-mail accounts, she tried to downplay the situation by claiming that only a “handful” of employees had used such accounts. “I don’t think it’s a lot,” she said then. > > As we noted earlier today, the Los Angeles Times is now reporting that Karl Rove and at least 50 other White House officials have used such accounts. What does Perino have to say for herself now? “Well,” she said when asked today, “I didn’t know how many there were.” Tony would’ve had a better reponse. Oh, for the days of a grade-A Snow job! > [@](#): > > Here’s one clue from Newsweek’s Michael Isikoff: At a March 23 testimony prep session, “Gonzales was grilled by a team of top aides and advisers – including former Republican National Committee chair Ed Gillespie and former White House lawyer Tim Flanigan – about what he knew about the plan to fire seven U.S. attorneys last fall. But Gonzales kept contradicting himself and ‘getting his timeline confused,’ said one participant who asked not to be identified talking about a private meeting. His advisers finally got ‘exasperated’ with him, the source added. ‘He’s not ready,’ Tasia Scolinos, Gonzales’s public-affairs chief, told the A.G.'s top aides after the session was over.” Tee hee! ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/244 "2007-04-13T21:05:07Z")
Wow. That’s an impressive legal mind Gonzo is packing there. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/245 "2007-04-13T22:20:36Z")
As our attorney, he advises us to take ever increasing quantities of hallucinogens. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/246 "2007-04-13T22:33:10Z")
“He’s not ready.” How much more time does he need? That’s how you know they’re lying. No one needs weeks on end to prepare to tell the truth. Honesty doesn’t work that way. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2007, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/247 "2007-04-14T02:23:42Z")
[QUOTE=you with the face] “He’s not ready.” How much more time does he need? That’s how you know they’re lying. No one needs weeks on end to prepare to tell the truth. Honesty doesn’t work that way. [/QUOTE] Is it time to conclude that Alberto (Fredo) Gonzales is truly a mediocre, if not stupid, individual who has risen far above his ability level due to his close relationship with GWB? I think yes. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2007, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/248 "2007-04-14T02:38:02Z")
[Some scuttlebutt:](http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Newsweek_Gonzales_cant_keep_Attorneys_story_0409.html)" > [@](#): > > Michael Isikoff in Newsweek’s Periscope column this week says that Gonzales performed poorly in initial preparation sessions for his testimony. > > “Gonzales kept contradicting himself and ‘getting his timeline confused,’ said one participant who asked not to be identified,” Isikoff reports. > > He also notes, “His advisers finally got ‘exasperated’ with him, the source added.” > > Justice Department staff were nervous according to Isikoff, and had canceled all public appearances scheduled for this week. There’s an old blues song by Terry Evans: “Get Your Lies Straight”. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2007, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/249 "2007-04-14T03:13:38Z")
[Back To That CRAAAAAAAAZY conspiracy theory About the USA’s That DIDN’T get fired:](http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington//17075348.htm) > [@](#): > > A U.S. attorney in Wisconsin who prosecuted a state Democratic official on corruption charges during last year’s heated governor’s race was once targeted for firing by the Department of Justice, but given a reprieve for reasons that remain unclear. A federal appeals court last week threw out the conviction of Wisconsin state worker Georgia Thompson, saying the evidence was “beyond thin.” ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2007, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/250 "2007-04-14T04:12:23Z")
Wow, today is really a hot news day. [Email confirms](http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/14/us/14attorneys.html?ex=1334203200&en=bf9c74f9b1231ecb&ei=5089&partner=rssyahoo&emc=rss) Domenici’s complaints attached to Iglesias on a firing list. > [@](#): > > …Ms. Goodling writes of a complaint from Senator Pete V. Domenici of New Mexico, a Republican: “Domenici says he doesn’t move cases.” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2007, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/251 "2007-04-14T04:31:40Z")
Nope, no he didn’t! [http://www.freenewmexican.com/news/57752.html](http://www.freenewmexican.com/news/57752.html) > [@](#): > > In a brief interview Thursday, Domenici also denied the accusation. “I don’t have any comment,” he told The Associated Press. “I have no idea what he’s talking about.” Didn’t know nothing about it, nohow. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2007, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/252 "2007-04-14T04:59:40Z")
You know, we may have to open a supplemental thread, this story’s got legs! People say it reminds them of Watergate. But back then, you’d have to wait days, even weeks, for another blazing turd to plop into the White House punch bowl. But now…the hits just keep on coming, its a matter of hours, even minutes! ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2007, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/253 "2007-04-14T05:40:16Z")
But golly, can’t Marcia and Jan figure out how to retrieve those missing emails (all 5 million of them) before Alice and Mom get back from Mr. Brady’s baseball game? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2007, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/254 "2007-04-14T13:30:02Z")
[QUOTE=Zoe] But golly, can’t Marcia and Jan figure out how to retrieve those missing emails (all 5 million of them) before Alice and Mom get back from Mr. Brady’s baseball game? [/QUOTE] I thought the main characters were named Moe, Curly and Larry. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2007, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/255 "2007-04-14T14:58:38Z")
[QUOTE=Boyo Jim] I thought the main characters were named Moe, Curly and Larry. [/QUOTE] Too bad they can’t find a Shemp to be the War Czar. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2007, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/256 "2007-04-14T15:01:02Z")
> [@Homer Simpson](#): > > Moe is their leader. If there’s \*anything \* Watergate veteran and now WH Counsel Fred Fielding could have explained to these guys, it’s that the coverup is more damaging than what’s being covered up. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2007, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/257 "2007-04-14T15:52:39Z")
Let’s all meet back here next Friday night, when the JD will drop off yet another batch of damaging emails at the very end of the week in an attempt to minimize the reaction. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2007, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/258 "2007-04-14T15:58:47Z")
I know! Lets hire the Geek Squad to recover Rove’s missing e-mails, then we get candid pictures of him showering! Upon reflection, maybe not that great an idea… ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2007, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/259 "2007-04-15T01:28:39Z")
[35-year DoJ employee puts Gonzales and his kiddie corps in historical context](http://www.law.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=OpenMarket/Xcelerate/Preview&c=LawArticle&cid=1176455062969) This one’s not a good sound-bite piece; just read. Here’s two excerpts, though: > [@](#): > > I began earlier, in the first Nixon administration, as a college intern in 1971. But I was there again in the Watergate era, when I worked in part of the Attorney General’s Office during my first year of law school in 1973-1974, and then continuously as a trial attorney and office director for nearly 30 years. That adds up to more than a dozen attorneys general, including Ed Meese as well as John Mitchell, and I used to think that they had politicized the department more than anyone could or should. But nothing compares to the past two years under Alberto Gonzales. > > To be sure, he continued a trend of career/noncareer separation that began under John Ashcroft, yet even Ashcroft brought in political aides who in large measure were experienced in government functioning. Ashcroft’s Justice Department appointees, with few exceptions, were not the type of people who caused you to wonder what they were doing there. They might not have been firm believers in the importance of government, but generally speaking, there was a very respectable level of competence (in some instances even exceptionally so) and a relatively strong dedication to quality government, as far as I could see. > > Under Gonzales, though, almost immediately from the time of his arrival in February 2005, this changed quite noticeably. First, there was extraordinary turnover in the political ranks, including the majority of even Justice’s highest-level appointees. It was reminiscent of the turnover from the second Reagan administration to the first Bush administration in 1989, only more so. Second, the atmosphere was palpably different, in ways both large and small. One need not have had to be terribly sophisticated to notice that when Deputy Attorney General Jim Comey left the department in August 2005 his departure was quite abrupt, and that his large farewell party was attended by neither Gonzales nor (as best as could be seen) anyone else on the AG’s personal staff. > > Third, and most significantly for present purposes, there was an almost immediate influx of young political aides beginning in the first half of 2005 (e.g., counsels to the AG, associate deputy attorneys general, deputy associate attorneys general, and deputy assistant attorneys general) whose inexperience in the processes of government was surpassed only by their evident disdain for it. > > Having seen this firsthand in a range of different situations for nearly two years before I retired, I found it not at all surprising that the recent U.S. Attorney problems arose in the first place and then were so badly mishandled once they did. > [@](#): > > the process of agency functioning, however, became dramatically different almost immediately after Gonzales arrived. No longer was emphasis placed on accomplishing something with the highest-quality product in a timely fashion; rather, it became a matter of making sure that a “consensus” was achieved, regardless of how long that might take and with little or no concern that quality would suffer in such a “lowest common denominator” environment. And heaven help anyone, career or noncareer employee, if that “consensus” did not include whatever someone in the White House might think about something, be it large, small or medium-sized. > > In short, the culture markedly shifted to one in which avoiding any possibility of disagreement anywhere was the overriding concern, as if “consensus” were an end unto itself. Undergirding this, what’s more, was the sad fact that so many political appointees in 2005 and 2006 were so obviously thinking not much further than their next (i.e., higher-level) position, in some place where they could “max out” by the end of Bush’s second term. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2007, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/260 "2007-04-15T19:05:58Z")
[And the trail leads to the Oval Office](http://www.abqjournal.com/news/special/554986nm04-15-07.htm): > [@](#): > > In the spring of 2006, Domenici told Gonzales he wanted Iglesias out. > Gonzales refused. He told Domenici he would fire Iglesias only on orders from the president. > At some point after the election last Nov. 6, Domenici called Bush’s senior political adviser, Karl Rove, and told him he wanted Iglesias out and asked Rove to take his request directly to the president. > Domenici and Bush subsequently had a telephone conversation about the issue. > The conversation between Bush and Domenici occurred sometime after the election but before the firings of Iglesias and six other U.S. attorneys were announced on Dec. 7. > Iglesias’ name first showed up on a Nov. 15 list of federal prosecutors who would be asked to resign. It was not on a similar list prepared in October. > The Journal confirmed the sequence of events through a variety of sources familiar with the firing of Iglesias, including sources close to Domenici. The senator’s office declined comment. This thing is like Watergate on amphetamines. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824.md?page=14)