# That CRAAAAAAAAZY conspiracy theory: the mass firings of US Attorneys **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 6, 2007, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824 "2007-03-06T17:45:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2007, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/21 "2007-03-09T18:46:53Z")
[QUOTE=Onomatopoeia] I hope that freaking, lying weasel Gonzales finally loses his job. It’d be none too soon. I’ve been screaming about that truth phobic, Coolaid drinking, sycophantic, brown-nosing suck-up for over two years now. Off with his head! [/QUOTE] What makes you think W would choose anybody better to replace him? ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2007, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/22 "2007-03-09T18:48:10Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] What makes you think W would choose anybody better to replace him? [/QUOTE] Hmm…good point ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2007, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/23 "2007-03-09T18:51:52Z")
Did anybody really buy that this was a performance issue? The Bush adminstration firing people for incompetence and poor performance would be like Baskin-Robbins firing people for selling ice cream. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2007, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/24 "2007-03-09T19:00:50Z")
[QUOTE=DoctorJ] Did anybody really buy that this was a performance issue? The Bush adminstration firing people for incompetence and poor performance would be like Baskin-Robbins firing people for selling ice cream. [/QUOTE] The Usual Suspects and their attorney-shill? Certainly. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2007, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/25 "2007-03-09T19:35:40Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Don’t suppose that means the fired USAs can have their jobs back? [/QUOTE] Uh… no. I highly doubt it. Although one of 'em might make a good AG when the job opens up soon! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2007, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/26 "2007-03-09T19:38:44Z")
[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir] Uh… no. I highly doubt it. Although one of 'em might make a good AG when the job opens up soon! 😉 [/QUOTE] The thought of that happening makes my giblets go all tingly! -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2007, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/27 "2007-03-09T21:13:11Z")
Still waiting for the usual **Bricker** spin on why this was all just hunky dory and non-piscine. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2007, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/28 "2007-03-10T16:18:49Z")
Here’s a related story from [Kevin Drum](http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2007_03/010882.php) at the Washington Monthly, describing an analyses of the corruption cases brought by US Attorneys against Democrats and Republicans. Apparently at the state and federal level, they are fairly equal. But at the local level, the breakdown is: Democrats: 262 Republicans: 37 Independents: 10 This despite roughly equivalent numbers of Republicans and Democrats in local governments. ---
**Author:** ![Chance\_the\_Gardener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@Chance\_the\_Gardener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chance_the_Gardener)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2007, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/29 "2007-03-10T17:29:41Z")
Man, this scandal is staggering. This reminds me a little of Nixon’s [Saturday Night Massacre](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturday_night_massacre) back in 1973, except this makes the Saturday Night Massacre look more like the Saturday Night Pillowfight. It’s incredible that even Congressional Republicans are starting to feel that Bush is going too far. Of course, I’m not surprised to see that there are hardly any defenders of Bush on this thread, much less any conservatives; this is no fun to defend, I’m sure. Not that it’s at all defensible, of course. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2007, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/30 "2007-03-10T18:24:15Z")
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian] Here’s a related story from [Kevin Drum](http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2007_03/010882.php) at the Washington Monthly, describing an analyses of the corruption cases brought by US Attorneys against Democrats and Republicans. Apparently at the state and federal level, they are fairly equal. But at the local level, the breakdown is: Democrats: 262 Republicans: 37 Independents: 10 This despite roughly equivalent numbers of Republicans and Democrats in local governments. [/QUOTE] Hmmm . . . I wonder why the local breakdown would be different from that at the state or federal level? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2007, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/31 "2007-03-10T18:40:31Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Hmmm . . . I wonder why the local breakdown would be different from that at the state or federal level? [/QUOTE] Because _someone_ is trying to abort the new generation of up and coming Democratic leaders through the use of activist US Attorneys? Local stuff _stays_ local, so this kind of attack is fairly stealthy, yet offers a good payoff in the long term. ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2007, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/32 "2007-03-10T19:18:33Z")
[QUOTE=DoctorJ] Did anybody really buy that this was a performance issue? The Bush adminstration firing people for incompetence and poor performance would be like Baskin-Robbins firing people for selling ice cream. [/QUOTE] Somebody must have misheard. Spectacular incompetence under this Administration is rewarded [thusly.](http://www.medaloffreedom.com/PaulBremer.htm) ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2007, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/33 "2007-03-10T22:36:55Z")
[QUOTE=pantom] Somebody must have misheard. Spectacular incompetence under this Administration is rewarded [thusly.](http://www.medaloffreedom.com/PaulBremer.htm) [/QUOTE] Or [thusly](http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070309/ids_photos_ts/r2172781923.jpg). (Too bad none of the soldiers recuperating at Walter Reed were invited.) ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2007, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/34 "2007-03-11T00:52:41Z")
[Rove was asked to fire U.S. attorney](http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/news/nation/16872058.htm?source=rss&channel=krwashington_nation) > [@](#): > > Presidential advisor Karl Rove and at least one other member of the White House political team were urged by the New Mexico Republican party chairman to fire the state’s U.S. attorney because of dissatisfaction with his job performance including his failure to indict Democrats in a voter fraud investigation in the battleground election state. > … > In an interview Saturday with McClatchy Newspapers, Chairman Allen Weh said he complained in 2005… > Weh said Rove told him: “`He's gone.' I probably said something close to `Hallelujah.'” > … > Weh’s account calls into question the Justice Department’s stance that the recent decision to fire eight U.S. attorneys, including Iglesias, was made without the White House weighing in. It sure sounds like they’ve been abusing the legal system to further their own political agenda. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2007, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/35 "2007-03-11T03:59:21Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] [Rove was asked to fire U.S. attorney](http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/news/nation/16872058.htm?source=rss&channel=krwashington_nation) It sure sounds like they’ve been abusing the legal system to further their own political agenda. [/QUOTE] …and the Chewbacca Defense will kick off in… -Joe ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2007, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/36 "2007-03-11T10:54:37Z")
From the [NY Times](http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/11/us/11newmexico.html?pagewanted=2&ei=5099&en=1801ac84ce4f002e&ex=1174194000&partner=TOPIXNEWS): > [@](#): > > Mr. Rogers said he thought Mr. Iglesias was shying away from the kinds of career-making cases prosecutors typically jump at, so he voiced doubts to Mr. Domenici. > > Mickey D. Barnett, another top Republican lawyer in the state, who once served as an aide to Mr. Domenici in Congress and represented the Bush campaign in New Mexico in the 2000 and 2004 elections, said he had also complained. > > “I would say to Pete and Heather: ‘Look, you guys have some influence; I don’t have any influence. Can we get something done?’ ” Mr. Barnett said. Basically: ‘yeah, we were putting pressure on him to get a move on and indict Democratic politicians, what’s wrong with that?’ What’s wrong with that is that if an agency like the Department of Justice - you know, ‘Justice,’ what a concept - is nothing but a tool for the ‘in’ party to prosecute members of the ‘out’ party, then there’s little to separate us ethically from banana republics ruled by strongmen, other than periodically we get to vote on who the strongman is. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2007, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/37 "2007-03-11T11:17:02Z")
Similar stuff [from Newsweek](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17552880/site/newsweek/page/2/) on another fired prosecutor: > [@](#): > > Another fired prosecutor, John McKay, of Seattle, tells NEWSWEEK that local Republicans pressured him to launch a criminal probe of voting fraud that would tilt a deadlocked Washington governor’s race. “They wanted me to go out and start arresting people,” he says, adding that he refused to do so because there was “no evidence.” After McKay was fired in December, he says he also got a phone call from a “clearly nervous” Elston asking if he intended to go public: “He was offering me a deal: you stay silent and the attorney general won’t say anything bad about you.” (Elston says he “can’t imagine” how McKay got that impression. The call was meant to reassure McKay that the A.G. would not detail the reasons for the firings.) As the [the WaPo reported five weeks ago](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/03/AR2007020301349_pf.html): > [@](#): > > But there is also evidence that broader political forces are at work. One administration official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity in discussing personnel issues, said the spate of firings was the result of “pressure from people who make personnel decisions outside of Justice who wanted to make some things happen in these places.” “people who make personnel decisions outside of Justice.” As Josh Marshall says, that would pretty much have to be the White House, right? It isn’t like someone at the Pentagon or HHS would have been making the call. And indeed, according to Newsweek, the White House played a role: > [@](#): > > Two senior Justice officials, who didn’t want to be named discussing the dismissals, tell NEWSWEEK that Kyle Sampson, Gonzales’s chief of staff, developed the list of eight prosecutors to be fired last October—with input from the White House. In a recent statement, the White House said it approved the firings, but didn’t sign off on specific names. I’d love to see the wording of that statement, but I can’t track it down so far. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2007, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/38 "2007-03-11T11:24:57Z")
This is also why “abuse of power” is a perfectly reasonable ground for impeachment. Federal prosecutors serve at the pleasure of the President; he can fire them for any reason, or no reason at all. But if they are hired to produce politically-motivated investigations and indictments, and if they are fired for not doing so, then the blindfold is off the statue of Justice, the scales are tipped, and we are not the society we pride ourselves on being. This is abuse of power. The only real question is, how high did it go? Gonzales, who has already managed the difficult feat of making Ashcroft look good by comparison, is going to have a short shelf life, obviously. But I’m thinking this is where Rove’s luck finally runs out, too. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2007, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/39 "2007-03-11T13:19:32Z")
“Obviously”? Based on precedent, Tortureboy is more likely to get the Medal of Freedom. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2007, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/40 "2007-03-11T17:10:30Z")
[QUOTE=Chance the Gardener] Of course, I’m not surprised to see that there are hardly any defenders of Bush on this thread, much less any conservatives; this is no fun to defend, I’m sure. Not that it’s at all defensible, of course. [/QUOTE] Oh, I’m sure they’ll give it a shot. Thing is, based on previous examples, it always takes a few days for them to get themselves organized and work out their talking points; experience tells us that when a scandal breaks, the Pubs are weirdly silent for three or four days, after which they all start bellowing the same simple arguments in rough unison. It’s truly odd. In this case, though, events are moving so fast that they haven’t had a chance to regroup. Whatever message the machine might be trying to generate, the ground keeps shifting underneath their feet. On the other hand, it could be at least partly to their advantage to wait a bit: as each new facet of the scandal breaks, it makes it more likely that preceding revelations will be lost in the shuffle (e.g. the astonishing and damning statistics in **Hentor** ’s post above; numbers never seem to stick in the public memory for some reason). In any event, it’s going to be a while before things calm down enough for the Official Response to be formulated and go into heavy rotation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824.md?page=3)