# That CRAAAAAAAAZY conspiracy theory: the mass firings of US Attorneys **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 6, 2007, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824 "2007-03-06T17:45:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2007, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/381 "2007-05-12T20:40:00Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Even if his relationship to the WH is “fraying” **(ArchiveGuy,** post 370), it’s still unlikely AG AG will be fired – because that’s a post the president can’t just leave vacant, and any replacement would have to go through confirmation hearings in a Dem-controlled Congress and in a very, very different, a more hostile and skeptical, environment than Gonzalez had to endure. [/QUOTE] So you’re saying that the President would rather keep Gonzalez than be forced to have an honest and competent replacement in the office? I agree. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2007, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/382 "2007-05-12T21:05:28Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] From the _NYT,_ more revelations on the DOJ’s [“Monica Problem.”](http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/12/washington/12monica.html?ei=5088&en=26ad567fc04e3080&ex=1336622400&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&pagewanted=all) No wonder she tried to plead the Fifth. [/QUOTE] So her hiring bias is very apparently well known, yet she skyrocketed upward. Really, there is only one reasonable interpretation: Gonzales wanted her doing what she did, and rewarded her for it. She also makes a very convenient scapegoat if things turn sour later, as they have. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2007, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/383 "2007-05-12T21:41:16Z")
[QUOTE=Boyo Jim] So her hiring bias is very apparently well known, yet she skyrocketed upward. Really, there is only one reasonable interpretation: Gonzales wanted her doing what she did, and rewarded her for it. She also makes a very convenient scapegoat if things turn sour later, as they have. [/QUOTE] Only, she ain’t gonna be a scapegoat, since she’s been granted immunity. Apparently they never anticipated the possibility of her being a **witness.** 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2007, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/384 "2007-05-12T21:44:15Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Only, she ain’t gonna be a scapegoat, since she’s been granted immunity. Apparently they never anticipated the possibility of her being a **witness.** 😉 [/QUOTE] That’s even better for the scapegoat deal. Now she can proudly claim responsibility for all this shit, and walk away without a scratch. Like Ollie North did. And all the White House and Justice people just point at her and say, “She did it, and YOU let her walk.” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2007, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/385 "2007-05-13T23:57:57Z")
[More evidence Rove himself was in it up to his neck.](http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/news/nation/17208198.htm) > [@](#): > > WASHINGTON - Only weeks before last year’s pivotal midterm elections, the White House urged the Justice Department to pursue voter-fraud allegations against Democrats in three battleground states, a high-ranking Justice official has told congressional investigators. > > In two instances in October 2006, President Bush’s political adviser, Karl Rove, or his deputies passed the allegations on to Attorney General Alberto Gonzales’ then-chief of staff, Kyle Sampson. > > Sampson tapped Gonzales aide Matthew Friedrich, who’d just left his post as chief of staff of the criminal division. In the first case, Friedrich agreed to find out whether Justice officials knew of “rampant” voter fraud or “lax” enforcement in parts of New Mexico, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, and report back. > > But Friedrich declined to pursue a related matter from Wisconsin, he told congressional investigators, because an inquiry so close to an election could inappropriately sway voting results. Friedrich decided not to pass the matter on to the criminal division for investigation, even though Sampson gave him a 30-page report prepared by Republican activists that made claims of voting fraud. **GET THE BASTARD IN FRONT OF THE COMMITTEE UNDER OATH!** ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/386 "2007-05-14T21:42:40Z")
[Still more.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/13/AR2007051301106_pf.html) > [@](#): > > Nearly half the U.S. attorneys slated for removal by the administration last year were targets of Republican complaints that they were lax on voter fraud, including efforts by presidential adviser Karl Rove to encourage more prosecutions of election- law violations, according to new documents and interviews. > > Of the 12 U.S. attorneys known to have been dismissed or considered for removal last year, five were identified by Rove or other administration officials as working in districts that were trouble spots for voter fraud – Kansas City, Mo.; Milwaukee; New Mexico; Nevada; and Washington state. Four of the five prosecutors in those districts were dismissed. > > It has been clear for months that the administration’s eagerness to launch voter-fraud prosecutions played a role in some of the firings, but recent testimony, documents and interviews show the issue was more central than previously known. The new details include the names of additional prosecutors who were targeted and other districts that were of concern, as well as previously unknown information about the White House’s role. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/387 "2007-05-14T21:54:47Z")
[Deputy AG Paul McNulty just announced his resignation.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/14/AR2007051401071.html?hpid=topnews) (But he says he won’t be leaving until this summer.) ---
**Author:** ![Aquila\_Be](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a698b9/32.png) [@Aquila\_Be](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aquila_Be)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/388 "2007-05-15T11:38:01Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] [More evidence Rove himself was in it up to his neck.](http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/news/nation/17208198.htm) **GET THE BASTARD IN FRONT OF THE COMMITTEE UNDER OATH!** [/QUOTE] I’m not sure that everything looks all that clean and above board for Democrat partisans, particularly if some of the fired lawyers were deliberately dragging their feet when investigating voter fraud that benefited the Democrats. [sfgate.com](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2007/05/14/MNGBOPQEQS1.DTL&type=politics) From the link: > [@](#): > > (05-14) 04:00 PDT Washington – Nearly half the U.S. attorneys slated for removal by the administration last year were targets of Republican complaints that they were lax on voter fraud, including efforts by presidential adviser Karl Rove to encourage more prosecutions of election law violations, according to new documents and interviews. And further: > [@](#): > > The Justice Department demanded that one U.S. attorney, Todd Graves of Kansas City, resign in January 2006, several months after he refused to sign off on a Justice Department lawsuit involving the state’s voter rolls, Graves said last week. U.S. Attorney Steven Biskupic of Milwaukee also was targeted last fall after Rove complained that he was not doing enough about voter fraud. But he was spared because Justice Department officials feared that removing him might cause political problems on Capitol Hill, according to interviews of Justice aides conducted by congressional staff. Why should any honest person object if some dedicated government employee, like the abovementioned civil servant, Mr. Rove, wants to make sure that people who commit voter fraud get charged and jailed? Elections that are won through voter fraud are no more legitimate than military coups. I think we can all agree that the aim of every honest citizen should be to make sure that fraud is totally eliminated from the political scene. The dedicated Mr Rove appears to be trying to do just that. Not so? Perhaps a round of applause for this Mr Rove would be in order. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/389 "2007-05-15T12:15:05Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m not sure that everything looks all that clean and above board for Democrat partisans, particularly if some of the fired lawyers were deliberately dragging their feet when investigating voter fraud that benefited the Democrats. It’s probably because there is [scant evidence](http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/12/washington/12fraud.html?ei=5088&en=277feccfa099c7d0&ex=1334030400&pagewanted=print) of voter fraud. Does this seem like something that is going to swing an election result: > [@](#): > > Mr. Ali, 68, who had owned a jewelry store in Tallahassee, got into trouble after a clerk at the motor vehicles office had him complete a registration form that he quickly filled out in line, unaware that it was reserved just for United States citizens. > > Even though he never voted, he was deported after living legally in this country for more than 10 years because of his misdemeanor federal criminal conviction. Or this: > [@](#): > > In Alaska, Rogelio Mejorada-Lopez, who manages a gasoline station, had received a voter registration form in the mail. Because he had applied for citizenship, he thought it was permissible to vote, his lawyer said. Now, he may be deported to Mexico after 16 years in the United States. “What I want is for them to leave me alone,” he said in an interview. Or this: > [@](#): > > Bradley J. Schlozman has finished a year as interim United States attorney in Missouri, where he filed charges against four people accused of creating fake registration forms for nonexistent people. The forms could likely never be used in voting. The four worked for a left-leaning group, Acorn, and reportedly faked registration cards to justify their wages. The cases were similar to one that Mr. Iglesias had declined to prosecute, saying he saw no intent to influence the outcome of an election. Voter fraud is a red herring. Republicans exaggerate it in order to justify changes in election laws that would make it harder for poor people and minorities to vote. Four fake registration forms that can’t be used is a big deal. Rerouting Ohio’s 2004 election counting through the RNC servers is not. Go figure. ---
**Author:** ![Aquila\_Be](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a698b9/32.png) [@Aquila\_Be](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aquila_Be)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/390 "2007-05-15T12:48:16Z")
[QUOTE=BobLibDem] Voter fraud is a red herring. Republicans exaggerate it in order to justify changes in election laws that would make it harder for poor people and minorities to vote. Four fake registration forms that can’t be used is a big deal. Rerouting Ohio’s 2004 election counting through the RNC servers is not. Go figure. [/QUOTE] Go figure what? Addressing only the last of your four unsubstantated assertions, even the link you provided showed there was a serious problem that the US legal system could not or would not try to fix in policing elections throughout at least some of the more corrupt parts of the US. Re the Ohio 2004 election, were the votes counted by a one party without any input or reference to any other parties? (I’m assuming there are more than two parties) or are you claiming that the computer was programmed by persons unknown to come up with a particular result? If so, can you justify this with a link to a trustworthy source. (Note: ‘The Nation’ or ‘Kos’ or ‘DUH’ doesn’t count). ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/391 "2007-05-15T12:58:13Z")
A “serious” problem? A few dozen convictions in several years is “serious”? I’m looking for a reputable site regarding the Ohio RNC vote switching. The progressive blogs are agog with it, searching for it finds the smoke but the fire is harder to find. Anyway, as the blogs go, Kerry was winning Ohio handily until such time as the results were diverted to the RNC server. Three counties that voted against the gay marriage ban came in strongly for Bush, counter to the other counties. This is a bigger deal than a handful of isolated offenses. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/392 "2007-05-15T14:57:55Z")
[http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/15/gonzales-mcnulty/](http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/15/gonzales-mcnulty/) **Gonzales Throws McNulty Under The Bus** Link offers better exposition than your correspondent, paraphrase would be superfluous. Tighty righties advised to proceed “Shields Up”, decidedly lefty site, exposure to unpleasant truth likely. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/393 "2007-05-15T15:32:11Z")
[QUOTE=Aquila Be] Why should any honest person object if some dedicated government employee, like the abovementioned civil servant, Mr. Rove, wants to make sure that people who commit voter fraud get charged and jailed? [/QUOTE] Because the whole “voter fraud” issue is itself [fraudulent.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=418643) Because it’s just an excuse for the Pubs to unlawfully and dishonestly challenge/suppress potential Dem votes, just like they did when they used [caging](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=420050) [lists](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=420582) in 2004. And because the whole attorney-firings scandal is evidence of a Republican plot to do the same thing – but this time on an even wider scale and with the official backing of the Justice Department – in 2008. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/394 "2007-05-15T15:34:41Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] [http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/15/gonzales-mcnulty/](http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/15/gonzales-mcnulty/) **Gonzales Throws McNulty Under The Bus** [/QUOTE] :rolleyes: So on May 10 (see post #373), Rove didn’t know who was responsible for what. And **now** he remembers – oh, it was that Paul McNulty! ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/395 "2007-05-15T20:16:31Z")
This gets even better. Former Deputy AG James Comey [testifies](http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/?last_story=/politics/war_room/2007/05/15/comey_testifies/): > [@](#): > > So begins a remarkable tale that nearly led to the resignation of the Justice Department’s senior leadership, an ordeal that was recounted in great detail for the first time Tuesday. Two senior White House officials, Andrew Card and Alberto Gonzales, were headed to Ashcroft’s hospital bed, despite the instructions of his wife that there would be no phone calls or visitors. They wanted Ashcroft to sign off on the secret National Security Agency wiretapping program, a program that Ashcroft had already decided to reject before falling ill… > > The story gets better at this point. Comey’s testimony reads like a detective story. Minutes later, there is a showdown in the hospital room. Ashcroft, buffered by his wife and three of his senior deputies, faces down Gonzales and Card and refuses to sign off on the spy program. Gonzales and Card storm out of the room. Card calls Comey and demands that he come to the White House, but Comey refuses to go until he can get Ted Olson, the solicitor general, to accompany him. “After what I just witnessed, I will not meet with you without a witness,” Comey tells Card… > > At the hearing, Sen. Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., who was leading the questioning, asked the following. “So in sum, it was your belief that Mr. Gonzales and Mr. Card were trying to take advantage of an ill and maybe disoriented man to try and get him to do something that many, at least in the Justice Department, thought was against the law? Was that a correct summation?” > > Comey answered directly. “I was concerned that this was an effort to do an end-run around the acting attorney general and to get a very sick man to approve something that the Department of Justice had already concluded – the department as a whole – was unable to be certified as to its legality. And that was my concern.” The Administration, of course, is being evasive about the whole thing, but this is too juicy to let go easily… ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/396 "2007-05-15T20:35:59Z")
John Ashcroft was a bulwark in the fight to protect our rights? Whoulda thunk? ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/397 "2007-05-15T20:52:08Z")
Have to admit, the best PR he ever got was being compared to Alberto. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/398 "2007-05-15T23:22:31Z")
Well, he just decided to follow the example of his electoral opponent, and did his best work lying down and unmoving. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2007, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/399 "2007-05-17T23:15:18Z")
Senate Dems are seeking a [vote of no confidence in Gonzalez.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/17/AR2007051700260.html?hpid=topnews) Meanwhile, [still more Pubs are turning against him.](http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat?pid=196384) Meaning, he’ll probably keep his office until January '09. Because this Admin **never** admits mistakes, especially when the political stakes are so high. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2007, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/400 "2007-05-17T23:38:26Z")
Today [an NBC reporter asked Bush](http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/17/bush-comey-dodge/) point-blank (twice) if he sent Gonzales to Ashcroft while he was in the hospital to get him to approve the wire-tapping plan. Bush dodged the question both times. (The link is to a lefty site, but the video is the CNN feed from the press conference with Tony Blair.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824.md?page=21)