# That CRAAAAAAAAZY conspiracy theory: the mass firings of US Attorneys **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 6, 2007, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824 "2007-03-06T17:45:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/101 "2007-03-13T20:25:00Z")
I thought he got there by not writing a lot of checks. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/102 "2007-03-13T20:25:55Z")
[QUOTE=Cervaise] I know the sleaze seems to be coming thick and fast, and it feels like every day brings a new scandal that makes us all pray, “Maybe _this_ is the one that will finally bring these fuckers down,” but come on: a personnel matter about the firing and hiring of U.S. attorneys? Do you think Joe Citizen has a _clue_ who these guys are or what they do, or why these revelations are important? [/QUOTE] “It’s not that he did it that bothers me, it’s that he lied about it.” Ring any bells? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/103 "2007-03-13T20:37:57Z")
What I’d seriously like to know is what’s preventing the whole spool of yarn that is this administratration from completely unravelling. Gonzales has been a train wreck from day one. Couple him with Bush, Rove, Cheney and the rest of the true-believers within the Bush administration with all the never-ending scandals, corruption and lies, not to mention an illegal war and uncountable, unnessesary deaths, and you have an unmittigated disaster of literally global proportions. When the Hell is someone going to step up to the plate and impeach these freaks? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/104 "2007-03-13T20:49:20Z")
[QUOTE=Onomatopoeia] When the Hell is someone going to step up to the plate and impeach these freaks? [/QUOTE] It’s kind of pointless for the House to impeach unless they’re reasonably sure 2/3 of the Senate would vote to convict; which is doubtful in view of the latter’s current partisan composition – 51 Dems, 49 Pubs. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/105 "2007-03-13T21:12:21Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] Yeah, I know - tastes like chicken. 🙂 [/QUOTE] Just so long as it isn’t fishy! ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/106 "2007-03-13T21:16:15Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] It’s kind of pointless for the House to impeach unless they’re reasonably sure 2/3 of the Senate would vote to convict; which is doubtful in view of the latter’s current partisan composition – 51 Dems, 49 Pubs. [/QUOTE] I respectfully disagree. If this administration and this president are not worthy of impeachment then none are, in my opinion. One would hope for a conviction, and my desire is the fervent goal of those who would initiate impeachment proceedings is conviction, but not having a guarantee of a conviction should not negate the necessity of an impeachment. The felonious Bush administration needs to be stopped so dead and cold in its tracks that it can do no further harm to the nation and the world. Who knows what that idiot Bush and his cadre of crazies will do with another year+ to play with unchecked? I say impeach those freaks and impeach them now. Sorry for the hijack. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/107 "2007-03-13T21:17:14Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] It’s kind of pointless for the House to impeach unless they’re reasonably sure 2/3 of the Senate would vote to convict; which is doubtful in view of the latter’s current partisan composition – 51 Dems, 49 Pubs. [/QUOTE] I disagree. If the offenses are clear enough that the public accepts their validity and seriousness, then impeachment _sans_ conviction serves to highlight which party is obstructing justice in the larger and less technical sense. Congress should first demand a special prosecutor to look into the issue, since our AG can’t investigate his own potential (a) gaming of the US Atty positions for political gain, and (b) perjury, in an impartial manner. If Gonzales refuses to appoint one, the House should impeach him. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/108 "2007-03-14T00:03:00Z")
Ooooh, this just gets better! 🙂 Now [John Conyers wants Karl Rove to testify under oath](http://www.thenation.com/blogs/notion?pid=174844) about his role in this business! Has Karl Rove **ever,** in all his life, testified under oath? Can he do so without bursting into flames? [QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian] Here’s a related story from [Kevin Drum](http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2007_03/010882.php) at the Washington Monthly, describing an analyses of the corruption cases brought by US Attorneys against Democrats and Republicans. Apparently at the state and federal level, they are fairly equal. But at the local level, the breakdown is: Democrats: 262 Republicans: 37 Independents: 10 This despite roughly equivalent numbers of Republicans and Democrats in local governments. [/QUOTE] You know, it just occurred to me that every one of those 262 Dems now can use this story to challenge their prosecutions/indictments as politically motivated. Meaning, some who really **are** dirty might wriggle free. As the credibility, legitimacy and effectiveness of the U.S. Justice Department continue to erode . . . ---
**Author:** ![elelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@elelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elelle)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/109 "2007-03-14T02:49:53Z")
The best awful thing about sharks is that they sadly underestimate sharkish behaviour, understandably, who wants to get eaten, but[Here](http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1173434614487) it comes, with tearing teeth: > [@](#): > > (from the above source) It was an uncomfortable – and perhaps unprecedented – airing of private personnel matters. Granted, U.S. Attorneys are “at-will” employees who serve at the pleasure of the president and can be fired without cause, yet even some of the administration’s staunchest supporters were embarrassed at the breach of decorum. > > “They have the right to fire them; they do not have the right to smear them,” says Joseph DiGenova, a conservative commentator who was U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia during the Reagan administration. “Everybody involved in it at the Justice Department and White House should be taken to the woodshed. This is really a pathetic way of running government.” > > Other former U.S. Attorneys, all Republicans, said they were “stunned” or “flummoxed” or found the way the firings were handled “insulting”. It’s one thing to handle political matters in the status quo operandi, but this firing is shaking it all to the bones. We should all be very alarmed by this. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/110 "2007-03-14T02:55:30Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] You know, it just occurred to me that every one of those 262 Dems now can use this story to challenge their prosecutions/indictments as politically motivated. [/QUOTE] Yup, politicizing the law has its consequences. It’s nice to see that [even some Republicans realize this:](http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/13/washington/13attorneys.html?_r=1&hp)&oref=slogin) > [@](#): > > Mr. Specter, in a speech on the Senate floor, referred to another of the dismissed attorneys, Carol C. Lam, who prosecuted Randy Cunningham, the former Republican congressman now serving an eight-year sentence in a corruption case. > > Mr. Specter raised the question of whether Ms. Lam had been dismissed because she was “about to investigate other people who were politically powerful,” and he questioned the Justice Department’s initial explanation that those who had lost their jobs had received poor performance evaluations. > > “Well,” he said, “I think we may need to do more by way of inquiry to examine what her performance ratings were to see if there was a basis for her being asked to resign.” Have McCain, Giuliani, or Romney commented on this yet? I think the country needs to know where they stand. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/111 "2007-03-14T03:06:50Z")
I read that quote today, **Squink** , but I’m not holding my breath. Specter is one of my senators (he used to be the “good” senator, if only in relative terms next to Santorum), and he has a long history, like Chuck Hagel, of talking a good spiel but falling neatly back into the party line when it comes time to vote. I really hope that this whole USA thing has shaken him up enough to make him vote conscience instead of party, but I’m not optimistic. ---
**Author:** ![MMI](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/53a042/32.png) [@MMI](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MMI)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/112 "2007-03-14T03:42:51Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] Yup, politicizing the law has its consequences. It’s nice to see that [even some Republicans realize this:](http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/13/washington/13attorneys.html?_r=1&hp)&oref=slogin) Have McCain, **Giuliani** , or Romney commented on this yet? I think the country needs to know where they stand. [/QUOTE] What insight could a former US Attorney currently running for president possibly offer? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/113 "2007-03-14T03:44:02Z")
[QUOTE=MMI] What insight could a former US Attorney currently running for president possibly offer? [/QUOTE] Apparently none. Giuliani and Romney have both “no commented” the whole thing. ---
**Author:** ![Campion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@Campion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Campion)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/114 "2007-03-14T05:10:25Z")
I’m most interested, as I’m sure everyone is, in the USA’s who “played ball.” Given the reports (true or not) that Bush wanted to fire all the USA’s after the Republicans lost the mid-term elections, and that Gonzales or someone talked him out of it, I’m interested in the arguments used to save the jobs of 85% of the USA’s. In other words, if the ones who got fired are the ones who refused to bow to political pressure, I want to know about the ones who _did_ bow to political pressure. But I’m sure we’ll never know… ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/115 "2007-03-14T12:05:07Z")
[QUOTE=Campion] I’m most interested, as I’m sure everyone is, in the USA’s who “played ball.” Given the reports (true or not) that Bush wanted to fire all the USA’s after the Republicans lost the mid-term elections, and that Gonzales or someone talked him out of it, I’m interested in the arguments used to save the jobs of 85% of the USA’s. In other words, if the ones who got fired are the ones who refused to bow to political pressure, I want to know about the ones who _did_ bow to political pressure. But I’m sure we’ll never know… [/QUOTE] Take a look at [New Jersey](http://www.washtimes.com/national/20061017-010800-8774r.htm) just prior to the elections in November. > [@](#): > > “People deserve to know if their senator is the only senator under federal criminal investigation,” Mr. Kean {the Republican Senate candidate}said Now, I don’t want to try to paint Menendez as some beleaguered saint, because the accusations aren’t completely baseless, but the timing of the prosecution is very suspect. This case is one that keeps getting mentioned in the liberal blogs when the question of “Which USAs DID play ball?” comes up. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/116 "2007-03-14T12:56:59Z")
[CNN.com](http://CNN.com) today has photos of all the fired U.S. attorneys, excerpts from the DoJ’s congressional testimony as to the putative reasons why they were fired, and excerpts from their 2005 performance evaluations. A bit of a disconnect there, to put it mildly. **Campion** , I thought that Harriet Miers et al. proposed firing all U.S. attorneys _en masse_ in late 2004, after Bush won reelection, and not after the 2006 midterm elections. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/117 "2007-03-14T13:00:49Z")
[QUOTE=jayjay] > [@MMI](#): > > What insight could a former US Attorney currently running for president possibly offer? Apparently none. Giuliani and Romney have both “no commented” the whole thing. [/QUOTE] Such profiles in courage! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/118 "2007-03-14T13:06:38Z")
I don’t think that Willard Mitt Romney was ever a U.S. attorney. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/119 "2007-03-14T13:20:07Z")
[The morning news is full of good stuff](http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/16897082.htm): > [@](#): > > In an e-mail dated May 11, 2006, Sampson urged the White House counsel’s office to call him regarding “the real problem we have right now with Carol Lam,” who then the U.S. attorney for southern California. Earlier that morning, the Los Angeles Times reported that Lam’s corruption investigation of former Rep. Randy “Duke” Cunningham, R-Calif., had expanded to include another California Republican, Rep Jerry Lewis. And: > [@](#): > > “We’re a go for the US Atty plan,” White House aide William Kelley notified the Justice Department on Dec. 4, three days before seven of the eight U.S. attorneys were told to step down. “WH leg, political, and communications have signed off and acknowledged that we have to be committed to following through once the pressure comes.” > > “WH leg” refers to the White House legislative affairs office, which works closely with members of Congress. Read the whole story, it’s full of goodies. Also worth a review is [Josh Marshall’s timeline](http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/013023.php) of the Cunningham-Wilkes-Foggo-Lewis-Hookergate investigation last spring: > [@](#): > > But the Lewis investigation wasn’t the only trouble Lam was making. Look what else was happening in the couple weeks before May 11th … > > April 28th, 2006 – Cunningham-Wilkes-Foggo “Hookergate” scandal breaks open. Probe grows out of San Diego US Attorney’s Office’s Cunningham investigation. CIA Director Goss denies involvement. > > April 29th, 2006 – Washington Post reports that Hookergate’s Shirlington Limo Service had $21 million contract with Department of Homeland Security. > > May 2nd, 2006 – Kyle “Dusty” Foggo confirms attendence at Wilkes/Cunningham Hookergate parties. > > May 4th, 2006 – Watergate Hotel subpoenaed in San Diego/Cunningham/Hookergate probe. > > May 5th, 2006 – WSJ reports that Kyle “Dusty” Foggo, who Goss installed as #3 at CIA, is under criminal investigation as part of the San Diego/Cunningham investigation. > > May 5th, 2006 – Porter Goss resigns as Director of Central Intelligence. > > May 6th, 2006 – WaPo reports on questionable DHS contract awarded to Shirlington Limo, the ‘hookergate’ Limo service under scrutiny as part of the San Diego/Cunningham investigation. Similar report in the Times. > > May 7th, 2006 – House Committee to investigate DHS contract with Hookergate’s Shirlington Limo. > > May 8th, 2006 – Lyle “Dusty” Foggo resigns at CIA. > > May 11th, 2006 – LA Times reports that Cunningham investigation has expanded into the dealings of Rep. Jerry Lewis (R-CA), House Appropriations Committee Chairman. > > May 12th, 2006 – Federal agents working on the San Diego/Cunningham investigation execute search warrants on the home and CIA office of Kyle “Dusty” Foggo. Yeah, they had a Carol Lam problem, alright. As the first link says: > [@](#): > > In an e-mail to Miers in early 2005, Sampson recommended retaining “strong” U.S. attorneys “who have produced, managed well, and exhibited loyalty to the President and Attorney General.” How can you get more disloyal to Bush than opening up a big investigation of Republicans, especially once it gets into the Executive Branch? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824/120 "2007-03-14T13:21:40Z")
[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir] I don’t think that Willard Mitt Romney was ever a U.S. attorney. [/QUOTE] No, he wasn’t. Sorry if there was a mixup due to the sequence of comments. But I thought his first name was ‘Oven,’ not ‘Willard.’ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-craaaaaaaazy-conspiracy-theory-the-mass-firings-of-us-attorneys/394824.md?page=7)