# That Deaf and Dumb Thread-some info **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 14, 2008, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-deaf-and-dumb-thread-some-info/459975 "2008-08-14T14:24:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2008, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-deaf-and-dumb-thread-some-info/459975/1 "2008-08-14T14:24:26Z")
Don’t start screaming yet. I just wanted to say that as part of my summer reading, I’ve been rereading Wodehouse and in _The Inimitable Jeeves_, there is a reference to “the deaf and dumb language.” This book was originally published in 1923, and is chock full of contemporary slang (old egg, posish, chappie, what the deuce and dash it all etc), so I am assuming that the d and d language was on par with either common slang or at least common usage back then. It’s the first time I’d ever come across it in print. Just thought I’d share this because many posters in that thread were saying that they had never seen that particular phrase in print. There is no Pitting here, no position, just sharing info. ---
**Author:** ![zut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zut/32/2875_2.png) [@zut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zut)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2008, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-deaf-and-dumb-thread-some-info/459975/2 "2008-08-14T15:04:00Z")
You might have mentioned a link of some sort, but if you did, I couldn’t hear you. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2008, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-deaf-and-dumb-thread-some-info/459975/3 "2008-08-14T15:07:50Z")
Good point. I’ll try to dig up the thread. Not sure if the mods want that to happen, but I’ll give it a go. Here it is: [pleasedon’trehashthis](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=475884&highlight=deaf+dumb+language) ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2008, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-deaf-and-dumb-thread-some-info/459975/4 "2008-08-14T15:16:10Z")
**eleanorigby** : It’s used in _Huckleberry Finn_. Any ignorance on their part is difficult to excuse, and isn’t anyone else’s problem. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2008, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-deaf-and-dumb-thread-some-info/459975/5 "2008-08-14T15:26:41Z")
[QUOTE=Derleth] **eleanorigby** : It’s used in _Huckleberry Finn_. Any ignorance on their part is difficult to excuse, and isn’t anyone else’s problem. [/QUOTE] Huh? 😕 Ok, so there is another source (I wasn’t aware of it. Was it mentioned in the other thread? My bad if it was). I don’t understand your second comment, though. 1923 isn’t well known for its progressive thought etc, so I don’t agree that it’s difficult to excuse; it just exists. It’s not our problem, certainly, but who is claiming that it is? 😕 I was just reading along when the phrase popped out at me (thanks to that thread) and I thought that others would be interested in knowing of a time it was in common enough use to be included in popular literature. I won’t mention it again. \ ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2008, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-deaf-and-dumb-thread-some-info/459975/6 "2008-08-14T15:33:41Z")
[QUOTE=eleanorigby] Huh? 😕 Ok, so there is another source (I wasn’t aware of it. Was it mentioned in the other thread? My bad if it was). [/QUOTE] Post #2 refers to Twain’s use of it. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2008, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-deaf-and-dumb-thread-some-info/459975/7 "2008-08-14T15:38:58Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] Post #2 refers to Twain’s use of it. [/QUOTE] How terribly embarrassing. (but still, the rest of the thread does include comments re never having heard of it before). Perhaps I need to make it clear that I am not defending the phrase, merely citing when and where it occurred. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2008, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-deaf-and-dumb-thread-some-info/459975/8 "2008-08-14T16:19:52Z")
Anyone goggling “Teddy Carella deaf and dumb” is going to get many many examples, including Evan Hunter’s (Ed McBain’s) 2005 [obituary](http://www.nysun.com/arts/close-of-a-file/16727/) ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Nader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Darth\_Nader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Nader)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2008, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-deaf-and-dumb-thread-some-info/459975/9 "2008-08-14T19:50:29Z")
[QUOTE=eleanorigby] 1923 isn’t well known for its progressive thought… [/QUOTE] Sure it is. Look at what happened to women’s fashion around then. No bras, and if dresses had gone just a bit higher, there would have been a _lot_ more hair to bob. Not to mention the whole getting to vote thing, but that was back in 1919, right? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2008, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-deaf-and-dumb-thread-some-info/459975/10 "2008-08-14T19:55:07Z")
[QUOTE=Annie-Xmas] Anyone goggling “Teddy Carella deaf and dumb” is going to get many many examples, including Evan Hunter’s (Ed McBain’s) 2005 [obituary](http://www.nysun.com/arts/close-of-a-file/16727/) [/QUOTE] OK. This isn’t playing out the way I imagined it would. I thought others would come in here and say, “oh, that’s (mildly) interesting” and leave it at that. I didn’t google the phrase (why would I?). I just came across it. I’ve asked that the thread be closed because it’s served its purpose, as minute as that was. I probably overestimated the degree of interest in the topic. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-deaf-and-dumb-thread-some-info/459975/11 "2008-08-16T01:40:06Z")
Am I the only one to read the title as “That Deaf and Dumb Three-some info”? No? OK, so am I the only one to wonder “Who’s the third? Blind?” ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2008, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-deaf-and-dumb-thread-some-info/459975/12 "2008-08-17T18:55:57Z")
[QUOTE=Nametag] Am I the only one to read the title as “That Deaf and Dumb Three-some info”? No? OK, so am I the only one to wonder “Who’s the third? Blind?” [/QUOTE] Worth opening the thread for this one comment. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2008, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-deaf-and-dumb-thread-some-info/459975/13 "2008-08-17T21:35:04Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] Post #2 refers to Twain’s use of it. [/QUOTE] Post #2 in that thread refers to Twain’s use of the phrase “Deaf and Dumb.” The OP here is referring to the phrase “Deaf and dumb language.” I agree with most people that that is a really, really strange phrase to use. -FRL- ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2008, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-deaf-and-dumb-thread-some-info/459975/14 "2008-08-17T21:36:53Z")
[QUOTE=eleanorigby] OK. This isn’t playing out the way I imagined it would. I thought others would come in here and say, “oh, that’s (mildly) interesting” and leave it at that. I didn’t google the phrase (why would I?). I just came across it. I’ve asked that the thread be closed because it’s served its purpose, as minute as that was. I probably overestimated the degree of interest in the topic. Sorry. [/QUOTE] Googling “deaf and dumb language” _confirms_ that it’s an unusual phrase, mostly from before the early 20th century. People on this thread are confusing the phrase you’re talking about with the phrase “deaf and dumb.” -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2008, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-deaf-and-dumb-thread-some-info/459975/15 "2008-08-17T21:41:17Z")
\ I asked for this to be closed several days ago, but my face must still be in that jar by the door because I don’t even rate a glance from the Mods. What’s a girl got to do around here to get a thread closed? ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2008, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-deaf-and-dumb-thread-some-info/459975/16 "2008-08-17T21:53:03Z")
FWIW, I heartily support your decision to take up Wodehouse in the first place, and why, I might do the same. I have Mulliner Nights within a yardstick’s reach. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-deaf-and-dumb-thread-some-info/459975/17 "2008-08-18T04:04:25Z")
[QUOTE=eleanorigby] I asked for this to be closed several days ago, but my face must still be in that jar by the door because I don’t even rate a glance from the Mods. What’s a girl got to do around here to get a thread closed? [/QUOTE] Sorry, I must have missed the reported post. Or perhaps the board ate it. Either way, ka-zaam! Closed.