# That horrible disgusting Abanian Dwarf is gonna be made a saint **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 15, 2016, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-horrible-disgusting-abanian-dwarf-is-gonna-be-made-a-saint/749085 "2016-03-15T17:17:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2016, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-horrible-disgusting-abanian-dwarf-is-gonna-be-made-a-saint/749085/282 "2016-03-20T19:09:31Z")
With all this talk of horrible dwarfs, could [she](http://40.media.tumblr.com/6c60e385db7a69c1a8fde51d09c4ad30/tumblr_nzgiynXRmU1s17gg0o1_500.jpg) be next up for canonization? ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2016, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-horrible-disgusting-abanian-dwarf-is-gonna-be-made-a-saint/749085/283 "2016-03-20T22:30:16Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I read your links. > > From the first: > > Notice how carefully the words are used, leaving the reader with a string impression that morphine is available across the hall but just not used. > > Yet the fact is that India does not permit clinics to possess or use morphine. No. The article didn’t imply that morphine was available across the hall. The article stated that local anesthetic was available across the hall: morphine is not a local anesthetic AFAIK. The article does have the following disturbing discussion: [INDENT][INDENT]…This was a direly insufficient method of sanitization that posed a health risk to residents and volunteers alike. ‘Seven volunteers have come down with fevers in the last month. Four were even hospitalized,’ said the young bearded Frenchman stationed at the basin beside me. ‘Make sure you wash your hands before you eat lunch.’ When I asked why there was no washing machine… [/INDENT][/INDENT] … the author was _Not_ told something like this: > [@Bricker](#): > > Your complaints make the perfect the enemy of the good. Why can’t she run things like a hospital would, you implicitly ask. Why can’t she have trained medical personnel in place of untrained volunteers? … > > The answer is that you can have five houses serving 500 clients with untrained volunteers or one house serving 100 clients with trained medical personnel. Instead the author was told this: [INDENT][INDENT]When I asked why there was no washing machine, he referred to the vows of the Missionaries of Charity congregation: chastity, poverty and obedience.[/INDENT][/INDENT] That sounds fetishistic. And while MoC may have that sort of misguided ideology, the Catholic Church as a whole does not. To be clear, I’m not saying a washing machine is necessarily appropriate for the facility. I’m saying that making a fetish of suffering is misguided, wrongheaded and trending towards evil. Something they don’t want to do, even inadvertently. The Missionaries of Charity needs to review their business model. Thanks to coremelt for providing the link. I don’t think it was a fantastic treatment, since it didn’t squarely address tradeoffs in quality of care. But it did have sufficient information to indicate that there is a contemporary cause for concern with the practices of the Missionaries of Charity. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2016, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-horrible-disgusting-abanian-dwarf-is-gonna-be-made-a-saint/749085/284 "2016-03-20T23:22:36Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > Nah, the Church was created by Man, any awards they bestow are also created by Man. “That’s the teaching, anyway.” ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2016, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-horrible-disgusting-abanian-dwarf-is-gonna-be-made-a-saint/749085/285 "2016-03-20T23:24:03Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > They don’t teach that anymore. The church now recognizes that suicide is often related to mental illness, and as such suicide isn’t an automatic ticket to hell. Thanks for pointing out what fucking pisses me off about religion. Most religions hold that they know everything, without fail. Until they change their minds. So what else are they wrong about now and will change their minds about later? ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2016, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-horrible-disgusting-abanian-dwarf-is-gonna-be-made-a-saint/749085/286 "2016-03-20T23:31:18Z")
The source for the seven percent figure is a 1991 article in German Stern magazine, I already posted a link to it above, here it is again: [http://www.srai.org/mother-teresa-where-are-her-millions/](http://www.srai.org/mother-teresa-where-are-her-millions/) Now of course you will have some spin for this. But the question is, why don’t they publish their accounts? The vast majority of charities do, and if you have nothing to hide then it should be absolutely no issue to publish your accounts. Significantly India is formally investigating the finances of the MoC, but I believe they have not released a report yet: > **[BREAKING NEWS: Mother Teresa’s charity under investigation in India regarding...](https://missionariesofcharity.wordpress.com/2015/06/26/breaking-news-mother-teresas-charity-under-investigation-in-india-regarding-foreign-donations/)** > > Join us on facebook: www.fb.com/missionariesofcharity The crackdown of the Indian government on the foreign funded non-governmental organisations has involved at least three major organisations, in… ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2016, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-horrible-disgusting-abanian-dwarf-is-gonna-be-made-a-saint/749085/287 "2016-03-20T23:57:25Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > The source for the seven percent figure is a 1991 article in German Stern magazine, I already posted a link to it above, here it is again: > [http://www.srai.org/mother-teresa-where-are-her-millions/](http://www.srai.org/mother-teresa-where-are-her-millions/) > > Now of course you will have some spin for this. But the question is, why don’t they publish their accounts? The vast majority of charities do, and if you have nothing to hide then it should be absolutely no issue to publish your accounts. > > Significantly India is formally investigating the finances of the MoC, but I believe they have not released a report yet: > [BREAKING NEWS: Mother Teresa’s charity under investigation in India regarding foreign donations | STOP The Missionaries of Charity](https://missionariesofcharity.wordpress.com/2015/06/26/breaking-news-mother-teresas-charity-under-investigation-in-india-regarding-foreign-donations/) I see that again you don’t quote the text that supports you. Is it this? > [@](#): > > England is one of the few countries where the sisters allow the authorities at least a quick glance at their accounts. Here the order took in DM5.3 million in 1991. And expenses (including charitable expenses)? — around DM360,000 or less than 7%. Whatever happened to the rest of the money? Sister Teresina, the head for England, defensively states, “Sorry we can’t tell you that.” Every year, according to the returns filed with the British authorities, a portion of the fortune is sent to accounts of the order in other countries. How much to which countries is not declared. One of the recipients is however, always Rome. The fortune of this famous charitable organistaion is controlled from Rome, — from an account at the Vatican bank. And what happens with monies at the Vatican Bank is so secret that even God is not allowed to know about it. Does this mean that they expended 7%\*in England[/ii]? That makes sense: they are collecting money in a first world nation to spend in third world nations. Or does it a total expenditure? How could it be so exact, when the same quote goes to to say that how much went where is not declared. Nor does the article provide quotes, links, or anything to make clear where, specifically, these claimed figures were found. And the tone of the article… “…what happens with monies at the Vatican Bank is so secret that even God is not allowed to know about it,” suggests to me that they are comfortable with hyperbole to make a point. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-horrible-disgusting-abanian-dwarf-is-gonna-be-made-a-saint/749085/288 "2016-03-21T00:01:55Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Thanks for pointing out what fucking pisses me off about religion. Most religions hold that they know everything, without fail. Until they change their minds. So what else are they wrong about now and will change their minds about later? Admit it. You’d be at least as pissed off if they never changed their minds. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-horrible-disgusting-abanian-dwarf-is-gonna-be-made-a-saint/749085/289 "2016-03-21T00:03:13Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > But the question is, why don’t they publish their accounts? The vast majority of charities do, and if you have nothing to hide then it should be absolutely no issue to publish your accounts. You are dim. What would you learn if they did? [http://www.episcopalchurch.org/sites/default/files/downloads/dfms\_-\_omb\_a-133\_12-31-13\_report.pdf](http://www.episcopalchurch.org/sites/default/files/downloads/dfms_-_omb_a-133_12-31-13_report.pdf) That’s a PDF from the Episcopal Church in the United States which is presumably the kind of thing you’re looking for. Is it? ---
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-horrible-disgusting-abanian-dwarf-is-gonna-be-made-a-saint/749085/290 "2016-03-21T00:13:43Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Thanks for pointing out what fucking pisses me off about religion. Most religions hold that they know everything, without fail. Until they change their minds. So what else are they wrong about now and will change their minds about later? The Church, like the rest of us, knows more about mental illness now than in the past. New information, revised view. If only it would apply this principle more broadly. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-horrible-disgusting-abanian-dwarf-is-gonna-be-made-a-saint/749085/291 "2016-03-21T00:13:57Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Thanks for pointing out what fucking pisses me off about religion. Most religions hold that they know everything, without fail. Until they change their minds. So what else are they wrong about now and will change their minds about later? The Church teaches plenty of things that fall into the general category of, “This is our best understanding,” but not “This is undeniably accurate.” So far as I know, the Church has never claimed they know everything, without fail. The Church has claimed they know SOME things, without fail. But never has she then changed that teaching. The problem, I suspect, is that you confuse matters of discipline, or practice, with inerrant teaching. The Church might, someday, permit priests to marry. That would be a change in practice, but not a renunciation of some earlier claim of absolute truth. So the future Church might relax its position on ordaining women, or decree that priests celebrate Mass in a coat and tie instead of vestments, or declare that meat on Wednesdays of Lent should be avoided instead of Fridays…all without undoing any claims of eternal truth. The Church will never, though, claim that Jesus was not divine, or that God did not create the universe, or that Mary was not assumed bodily into Heaven. Can you give me an example of any contrary instances, where you feel the Catholic Church took an issue they once claimed was inerrantly certain and then changed it? Or were you excluding the Catholic Church from “most religions?” ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-horrible-disgusting-abanian-dwarf-is-gonna-be-made-a-saint/749085/292 "2016-03-21T01:24:35Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You are dim. > > What would you learn if they did? > [http://www.episcopalchurch.org/sites/default/files/downloads/dfms\_-\_omb\_a-133\_12-31-13\_report.pdf](http://www.episcopalchurch.org/sites/default/files/downloads/dfms_-_omb_a-133_12-31-13_report.pdf) > > That’s a PDF from the Episcopal Church in the United States which is presumably the kind of thing you’re looking for. > > Is it? What does the Episcopal Church have to do with how Mother Teresa’s organization spent the millions in donations they have received every year? Was MT Episcopalian? I don’t think coremelt is saying no religious charities release their accounting of charitable expenditures. the issue of this thread is why doesn’t MoC release an accounting, especially in light of allegations that only about 7% is spent actually helping the needy. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-horrible-disgusting-abanian-dwarf-is-gonna-be-made-a-saint/749085/293 "2016-03-21T01:39:07Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > What does the Episcopal Church have to do with how Mother Teresa’s organization spent the millions in donations they have received every year? Was MT Episcopalian? > > I don’t think coremelt is saying no religious charities release their accounting of charitable expenditures. the issue of this thread is why doesn’t MoC release an accounting, especially in light of allegations that only about 7% is spent actually helping the needy. I am asking if this example from the Episcopal Church is an example of what he feels should be released by the sisters. I have a point to make about the disclosure, but it depends on what, specifically, he is looking for. So as an example, I showed how the Episcopal Church does it, and asked if that is the kind of thing he believes the sisters should also do, or whether he finds that disclosure insufficient. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-horrible-disgusting-abanian-dwarf-is-gonna-be-made-a-saint/749085/294 "2016-03-21T01:57:53Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > They don’t teach that anymore. The church now recognizes that suicide is often related to mental illness, and as such suicide isn’t an automatic ticket to hell. This leads me to a question. In Mathew 16:19, Jesus tells Simon Peter that whatever he (the rock of the church) binds on earth shall be bound in heaven. So when the Church held that suicides were in hell, I assume that means that according to the Church, suicides absolutely had a ticket to hell. When the Church changed its teaching, were the suicides released from Hell? Or are those tormented souls out of luck? Or was the Church mistaken, and they never were in hell? OR am I utterly mistaken in what that passage means? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-horrible-disgusting-abanian-dwarf-is-gonna-be-made-a-saint/749085/295 "2016-03-21T02:06:01Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > This leads me to a question. In Mathew 16:19, Jesus tells Simon Peter that whatever he (the rock of the church) binds on earth shall be bound in heaven. So when the Church held that suicides were in hell, I assume that means that according to the Church, suicides absolutely had a ticket to hell. When the Church changed its teaching, were the suicides released from Hell? Or are those tormented souls out of luck? Or was the Church mistaken, and they never were in hell? > > OR am I utterly mistaken in what that passage means? So far as I can tell, you are are conflating “held” and “bind.” The Church did not “bind” that suicides were consigned to Hell. What the Church in-errantly said is what they always taught: that dying with an unforgiven mortal sin on your soul is indeed to deny your soul entrance to Heaven. What changed is the analysis of how that principle might apply to a suicide. But none of that is an example of the Church “binding.” ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-horrible-disgusting-abanian-dwarf-is-gonna-be-made-a-saint/749085/296 "2016-03-21T02:10:17Z")
Here’s a thought experiment: imagine a situation during the time in which the Church spoke of suicides as being condemned to Hell. Joe is found with a gun near his head, an obvious suicide. But then, a year later, it turns out that he was murdered, and the scene staged to look like suicide. What do you imagine the Church might say about Joe’s soul? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-horrible-disgusting-abanian-dwarf-is-gonna-be-made-a-saint/749085/297 "2016-03-21T02:15:20Z")
> [@Icerigger](#): > > FYI, a very large list of sins that will send you straight to HELL! Beware!! > > [http://www.followthissite.com/list-of-sins.php](http://www.followthissite.com/list-of-sins.php) Where the fuck did you find this site? Looks like a bunch of Sedevecantist\* nutters. \*People who refuse to accept any pope after Pius XII because of Vatican II. Or something. Mel Gibson is one. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-horrible-disgusting-abanian-dwarf-is-gonna-be-made-a-saint/749085/298 "2016-03-21T02:15:48Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So far as I can tell, you are are conflating “held” and “bind.” The Church did not “bind” that suicides were consigned to Hell. What the Church in-errantly said is what they always taught: that dying with an unforgiven mortal sin on your soul is indeed to deny your soul entrance to Heaven. > > What changed is the analysis of how that principle might apply to a suicide. > > But none of that is an example of the Church “binding.” So does “binding” only refer to papal decrees? (Probably the wrong phrase, perhaps speaking ex cathedra is correct?" What does “loosing” mean, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-horrible-disgusting-abanian-dwarf-is-gonna-be-made-a-saint/749085/299 "2016-03-21T02:18:55Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Here’s a thought experiment: imagine a situation during the time in which the Church spoke of suicides as being condemned to Hell. > > Joe is found with a gun near his head, an obvious suicide. > > But then, a year later, it turns out that he was murdered, and the scene staged to look like suicide. > > What do you imagine the Church might say about Joe’s soul? I am not sure that the Church would say anything precise about his soul. Individual priests might, I suppose, opine that he was likely in hell, but that’s hardly the same as an official teaching that says suicides are in hell. Because he wasn’t really a suicide, but merely appeared to be. Isn’t there a difference between “The Church says suicides go to hell” and a priest saying “sorry, old joe killed himself so he is in hell.” ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-horrible-disgusting-abanian-dwarf-is-gonna-be-made-a-saint/749085/300 "2016-03-21T02:22:43Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > So does “binding” only refer to papal decrees? (Probably the wrong phrase, perhaps speaking ex cathedra is correct?" What does “loosing” mean, exactly? The Catholic view is that this refers specifically to Christ’s earthly time and His forgiveness of sins, and the power to forgive sins being given to the apostles. The sins forgiven by them on Earth are also forgiven in Heaven. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-horrible-disgusting-abanian-dwarf-is-gonna-be-made-a-saint/749085/301 "2016-03-21T02:25:48Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The Catholic view is that this refers specifically to Christ’s earthly time and His forgiveness of sins, and the power to forgive sins being given to the apostles. The sins forgiven by them on Earth are also forgiven in Heaven. So binding is the lack of forgiveness for certain sins, and loosing is the forgiveness of certain sins? Or vice versa? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-horrible-disgusting-abanian-dwarf-is-gonna-be-made-a-saint/749085.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-horrible-disgusting-abanian-dwarf-is-gonna-be-made-a-saint/749085.md?page=16)