# That horrible disgusting Abanian Dwarf is gonna be made a saint **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 15, 2016, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-horrible-disgusting-abanian-dwarf-is-gonna-be-made-a-saint/749085 "2016-03-15T17:17:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-horrible-disgusting-abanian-dwarf-is-gonna-be-made-a-saint/749085/41 "2016-03-15T20:34:22Z")
Considering the OP borrowed their thread title from Christopher Hitchens, it seems fitting to [link to one of his articles taking her to task](http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2003/10/mommie_dearest.html) > [@](#): > > MT was not a friend of the poor. She was a friend of poverty. She said that suffering was a gift from God. She spent her life opposing the only known cure for poverty, which is the empowerment of women and the emancipation of them from a livestock version of compulsory reproduction. And she was a friend to the worst of the rich, taking misappropriated money from the atrocious Duvalier family in Haiti (whose rule she praised in return) and from Charles Keating of the Lincoln Savings and Loan. Where did that money, and all the other donations, go? The primitive hospice in Calcutta was as run down when she died as it always had been—she preferred California clinics when she got sick herself—and her order always refused to publish any audit ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-horrible-disgusting-abanian-dwarf-is-gonna-be-made-a-saint/749085/42 "2016-03-15T20:36:01Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > No–it’s just about as stupid. And biased. And useless. But it _is_ better spell-checked. RationalWiki is unabashedly biased – towards rationality – and for that reason very, very useful and very, very non-stupid. Sometimes wrong, perhaps (though I have yet to encounter a single instance), but never stupid. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-horrible-disgusting-abanian-dwarf-is-gonna-be-made-a-saint/749085/43 "2016-03-15T20:45:09Z")
> [@quiltguy](#): > > Considering the RCC has suspended their Devil’s Advocate, and reduced the # of needed miracles for sainthood to just 1, I’m surprised it took this long to get her a halo. Christopher Hitchens has acquainted us most skillfully with this holy woman who took money from thieves and reprobates, to ostensibly fund her clinics for the poor. MT sure had one heckuva’ public relations team. JPII should be bringing up the rear in due course. Actually, Hitchens was called in by the Catholic Church, if not as formal “Devil’s Advocate”, then at least to present evidence against here, something which he certainly did: > [@](#): > > Christopher Hitchens was the only witness as far as he knew, called by the Vatican to give evidence against Mother Teresa’s beatification and canonisation process,[131] because the Vatican had abolished the traditional “devil’s advocate” role, which fulfilled a similar purpose.[132] Hitchens has argued that “her intention was not to help people,” and he alleged that she lied to donors about the use of their contributions. “It was by talking to her that I discovered, and she assured me, that she wasn’t working to alleviate poverty,” says Hitchens. “She was working to expand the number of Catholics. She said, ‘I’m not a social worker. I don’t do it for this reason. I do it for Christ. I do it for the church.’”[133] > **[Mother Teresa](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_Teresa)** > > Mary Teresa Bojaxhiu MC (born Anjezë Gonxhe Bojaxhiu, .mw-parser-output .IPA-label-small{font-size:85%}.mw-parser-output .references .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .infobox .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .navbox .IPA-label-small{font-size:100%}Albanian: \[aˈɲɛzə ˈɡɔndʒɛ bɔjaˈdʒi.u\]; 26 August 1910 – 5 September 1997), better known as Mother Teresa,\[a\] was an Albanian-Indian Catholic nun and the founder of the Missionaries of Charity. Born in Skopje, then part of the Ottoman Empire,\[b\] ... Aroup Chatterjee, known for his own anti-Mother Teresa book, also presented evidence against her (although Hitchens was apparently either unaware of this, or did not mention it): > **[Aroup Chatterjee](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aroup_Chatterjee)** > > Aroup Chatterjee (born 23 June 1958) is a British Indian author and physician. He was born in Calcutta, and moved to the United Kingdom in 1985. He is the author of the book Mother Teresa: The Untold Story (originally published as Mother Teresa: The Final Verdict), a work which challenges the widespread regard of Mother Teresa as a symbol of philanthropy and selflessness. > Chatterjee's criticism inspired the documentary Hell's Angel that was shown on Channel 4, a British television channel. Th... So there were what amounted to “Devil’s Advocates” in her case. The Vatican certainly heard the other side of the argument. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-horrible-disgusting-abanian-dwarf-is-gonna-be-made-a-saint/749085/44 "2016-03-15T20:53:04Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Adding to that, her private writings have revealed that she had lost her faith decades before she died. So she was making other people suffer as a sacrifice to a God she wasn’t sure existed. This one I do not count. Many saints and holy people of all religions have had crises of faith and got over it, and I am not convinced that she never did. It’s subjective and not irreversible and she went on to persevere in her deeds and words. Unless the argument is that she psychopathically continued to do all this knowing it was for nothing. Actually wrong things done in the name of the faith, OTOH, can be judged on the facts of the deeds. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-horrible-disgusting-abanian-dwarf-is-gonna-be-made-a-saint/749085/45 "2016-03-15T20:56:37Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > She took large (multi-millions we believe) in donations that people gave thinking it would help the poor, sick, and hungry. In truth only extreme miniscule amounts of that money was used for that purpose. The “clinics” she opened did not treat their people properly. For example, they did not provide pain killers for people dying in horrendous pain despite being well able to afford them. Anjezë Gonxhe Bojaxhiu told them the pain was “God’s kisses”. However, when Anjezë Gonxhe Bojaxhiu needed medical attention herself, she wasted no time checking into the Mayo Clinic. If there is a hell, the Devil is kissing her there. So where did the money go, then? Did they just burn it for fuel? It isn’t like after her death they found out she secretly had mansions in three continents and her own fleet of private jets or anything. You don’t embezzle “multi millions” just to go to the Mayo Clinic. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-horrible-disgusting-abanian-dwarf-is-gonna-be-made-a-saint/749085/46 "2016-03-15T20:57:04Z")
> [@manila](#): > > Anjezë Gonxhe Bojaxhiu That is some serious power on a scrabble board though. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-horrible-disgusting-abanian-dwarf-is-gonna-be-made-a-saint/749085/47 "2016-03-15T20:59:13Z")
> [@manila](#): > > I refuse to call her “mother” and her name is actually Anjezë Gonxhe Bojaxhiu That’s easy for you to say! Given those two choices, I think I’ll stick with “mother”. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-horrible-disgusting-abanian-dwarf-is-gonna-be-made-a-saint/749085/48 "2016-03-15T21:16:54Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Adding to that, her private writings have revealed that she had lost her faith decades before she died. So she was making other people suffer as a sacrifice to a God she wasn’t sure existed. That seems to almost make her more impressive, if she lost he faith and kept on anyway ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-horrible-disgusting-abanian-dwarf-is-gonna-be-made-a-saint/749085/49 "2016-03-15T21:19:10Z")
There appear to be two broad ways (no pun intended) to construe the claims here: 1. Mother Teresa did horrible disgusting things, and the Church should not recognize her sainthood, because the Church opposes those things she did, Or 1. Mother Teresa did horrible disgusting things that the Church should oppose but does not, and therefore the Church should not recognize her sainthood because of reasons. In my view, the second category is weak. That is, you might say, as the Université de Montréal scholars did, that she was a negative influence because of her overly dogmatic views regarding abortion, contraception, and divorce. But surely you understand that since the Catholic Church does not share the views supporting abortion, contraception, and divorce, it is an absurd argument to inveigh against sainthood for Mother Teresa and list those as reasons. So I would be interested in specific criticisms of Mother Teresa that show she violated Catholic doctrine or practice. (Category 1 above). Complaints in the Category 2 box are essentially tautological. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-horrible-disgusting-abanian-dwarf-is-gonna-be-made-a-saint/749085/50 "2016-03-15T21:27:44Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > In my view, the second category is weak. That is, you might say, as the Université de Montréal scholars did, that she was a negative influence because of her overly dogmatic views regarding abortion, contraception, and divorce. But surely you understand that since the Catholic Church does not share the views supporting abortion, contraception, and divorce . . . It doesn’t? Then what are the Church’s actual, official views? (I’m pretty sure the RCC **has** actual official views on practically everything of any arguable moral relevance.) ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-horrible-disgusting-abanian-dwarf-is-gonna-be-made-a-saint/749085/51 "2016-03-15T21:37:45Z")
Being canonizes looks good on one’s resume. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-horrible-disgusting-abanian-dwarf-is-gonna-be-made-a-saint/749085/52 "2016-03-15T21:49:11Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > So where did the money go, then? Did they just burn it for fuel? It isn’t like after her death they found out she secretly had mansions in three continents and her own fleet of private jets or anything. You don’t embezzle “multi millions” just to go to the Mayo Clinic. There’s nothing secret about it: The money went to the Catholic Church, which has priceless mansions on six continents and its own personal bank system, and who, “coincidentally”, are the ones continuing to promote Mother Theresa and are soliciting donations in her name. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-horrible-disgusting-abanian-dwarf-is-gonna-be-made-a-saint/749085/53 "2016-03-15T22:01:04Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Aroup Chatterjee, known for his own anti-Mother Teresa book, also presented evidence against her (although Hitchens was apparently either unaware of this, or did not mention it) Actually, it’s Chatterjee’s work that Hitchens’ documentary and subsequent book was largely based on. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-horrible-disgusting-abanian-dwarf-is-gonna-be-made-a-saint/749085/54 "2016-03-15T22:06:18Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > There appear to be two broad ways (no pun intended) to construe the claims here: > > 1. Mother Teresa did horrible disgusting things, and the Church should not recognize her sainthood, because the Church opposes those things she did, > > Or > > 1. Mother Teresa did horrible disgusting things that the Church should oppose but does not, and therefore the Church should not recognize her sainthood because of reasons. > > In my view, the second category is weak. That is, you might say, as the Université de Montréal scholars did, that she was a negative influence because of her overly dogmatic views regarding abortion, contraception, and divorce. But surely you understand that since the Catholic Church does not share the views supporting abortion, contraception, and divorce, it is an absurd argument to inveigh against sainthood for Mother Teresa and list those as reasons. > > So I would be interested in specific criticisms of Mother Teresa that show she violated Catholic doctrine or practice. (Category 1 above). Complaints in the Category 2 box are essentially tautological. It’s also true that the RCC does not claim sainthood = perfection. We are all sinners, and the sainthood is a thing separate and apart from any sins the person might have committed on earth. We just went through this same thing in CA concerning Fr. Junipero Serra. AFAIAC, it’s their club, they can do whatever they want. I’m not a member, so it’s nothing to me. And, btw, does anyone know that George Washington _ **owned slaves!!!** _ What is he doing on Mt Rushmore and on our currency??? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-horrible-disgusting-abanian-dwarf-is-gonna-be-made-a-saint/749085/55 "2016-03-15T22:17:10Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > It doesn’t? Then what are the Church’s actual, official views? (I’m pretty sure the RCC **has** actual official views on practically everything of any arguable moral relevance.) How old are you? I ask because I am surprised that you have lived however many years as you have without encountering the views of the Roman Catholic Church on the issues of abortion, contraception, and divorce. Briefly, the Church considers abortion to be a grave sin, contraception a sin when it refers to an artificial barrier being used to prevent the creation of new life during the marital sex act, and divorce to be a meaningless concept when applied to the existence of a valid sacramental marriage. There are some nuances associated with each view. For example, a marriage may appear to have been valid but, upon investigation, be revealed to have suffered some defect of form or substance; in such cases, the Church will issue a decree of nullity. This is not a divorce, but a recognition that the marriage never existed, prior appearances notwithstanding. And the Church recognizes that the civil process of divorce may be necessary under some circumstances in which the spouses separate, but this is not a dissolution of the otherwise valid sacramental bond. Does that help? ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-horrible-disgusting-abanian-dwarf-is-gonna-be-made-a-saint/749085/56 "2016-03-15T22:17:47Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > So where did the money go, then? Did they just burn it for fuel? It isn’t like after her death they found out she secretly had mansions in three continents and her own fleet of private jets or anything. You don’t embezzle “multi millions” just to go to the Mayo Clinic. Well, a person can rack up millions of dollars in end of life expenses at the Mayo Clinic where unlike her “clinic” state-of-the-art medical technology is combined with ground breaking research by some of the finest medical minds in the world. While bare cots without air conditioning was fine for the patients of her “clinic” she had life support equipment that matched what is available to heads of state and royalty. A lot of the money is frankly not-accounted for. There needs to be a serious audit by neutral if not hostile party. I’ve always had the nasty suspicion that some of it has no doubt been filtered into the funds used as hush money to the victims of clerical abuse. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-horrible-disgusting-abanian-dwarf-is-gonna-be-made-a-saint/749085/57 "2016-03-15T22:19:30Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > It’s also true that the RCC does not claim sainthood = perfection. We are all sinners, and the sainthood is a thing separate and apart from any sins the person might have committed on earth. We just went through this same thing in CA concerning Fr. Junipero Serra. Correct. St. Peter is not simply a saint, but the first Pope. And he denied Christ. Sainthood is a finding that the deceased person is in Heaven. It is not necessary to live a sinless life to get into heaven. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-horrible-disgusting-abanian-dwarf-is-gonna-be-made-a-saint/749085/58 "2016-03-15T22:36:45Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > RationalWiki is unabashedly biased – towards rationality – and for that reason very, very useful and very, very non-stupid. Sometimes wrong, perhaps (though I have yet to encounter a single instance), but never stupid. Hee…you are so cute. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-horrible-disgusting-abanian-dwarf-is-gonna-be-made-a-saint/749085/59 "2016-03-15T22:37:55Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > How old are you? > > I ask because I am surprised that you have lived however many years as you have without encountering the views of the Roman Catholic Church on the issues of abortion, contraception, and divorce. > > Briefly, the Church considers abortion to be a grave sin, contraception a sin when it refers to an artificial barrier being used to prevent the creation of new life during the marital sex act, and divorce to be a meaningless concept when applied to the existence of a valid sacramental marriage. > > There are some nuances associated with each view. For example, a marriage may appear to have been valid but, upon investigation, be revealed to have suffered some defect of form or substance; in such cases, the Church will issue a decree of nullity. This is not a divorce, but a recognition that the marriage never existed, prior appearances notwithstanding. And the Church recognizes that the civil process of divorce may be necessary under some circumstances in which the spouses separate, but this is not a dissolution of the otherwise valid sacramental bond. > > Does that help? But, how does all of that differ from MT’s positions on those things? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-horrible-disgusting-abanian-dwarf-is-gonna-be-made-a-saint/749085/60 "2016-03-15T22:39:07Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Sainthood is a finding that the deceased person is in Heaven. I thought that was beatification (an earlier stage, prerequisite to canonization). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-horrible-disgusting-abanian-dwarf-is-gonna-be-made-a-saint/749085.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-horrible-disgusting-abanian-dwarf-is-gonna-be-made-a-saint/749085.md?page=4)