# That Latin motto in Lonesome Dove

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-latin-motto-in-lonesome-dove/128019>\
**Category:** Factual Questions\
**Created:** [September 11, 2002, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-latin-motto-in-lonesome-dove/128019 "2002-09-11T20:50:18Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 5\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\
**Post date:** [September 11, 2002, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-latin-motto-in-lonesome-dove/128019/1 "2002-09-11T20:50:18Z")

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That motto that Augustus McCrae carved into the sign next to “we don’t rent pigs.”

What was that? What does it mean?

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**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\
**Post date:** [September 11, 2002, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-latin-motto-in-lonesome-dove/128019/2 "2002-09-11T21:56:47Z")

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“Uva uvum vivendo varium fit”

“a grape darkens from seeing other grapes”

It’s from Juvenal’s second satire, and supposedly is a rough equivalent of our “one bad apple spoils the bunch”, although I don’t know the original context and can’t swear to this. Classical dopers?

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**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\
**Post date:** [September 11, 2002, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-latin-motto-in-lonesome-dove/128019/3 "2002-09-11T22:03:21Z")

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Sorry, that should be “varia”, not “varium”. Also, vivendo was a mistake from the book, it should be videndo.

Just so I’m not a plagarist, source Rick LaFleur, dept of Classics, U of Ga.

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**Author:** ![Padeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@Padeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Padeye)\
**Post date:** [September 11, 2002, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-latin-motto-in-lonesome-dove/128019/4 "2002-09-11T23:29:39Z")

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I thought the meaning was closer to “a grape ripens with other grapes” a reference to Gus and Call’s relationship to one another. Still a good case could be made for bad apples such as Jake Spoon.

:rolleyes: don’t need to ask what my favorite Western of all times is. I even use Gus’ gun in competition.

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**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\
**Post date:** [September 12, 2002, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-latin-motto-in-lonesome-dove/128019/5 "2002-09-12T00:05:54Z")

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I’ve heard it quoted that way too, Padeye. The “bad apple” thing I quoted instead because the Juvenal satire is supposedly about the contagion of vice. Either one makes sense, maybe even both at the same time: “like comes from like”. In fact, in the context of Jake, Gus and Call’s fates, being strengthened or weakened by the men around them, it seems to make the most sense that way.

Lonesome Dove’s my favorite, too. Robert Duvall’s favorite movie.