Whoa! Does that mean when you go, you just have to bring yourself? 
OK, so none of you pizzles* (people) picked up on this reference. I’m gonna have to spizzlle it out for yizzle.
*Yes, I know that “pizzle” is already a real word in standard English. That’s part of my understated humor.
Take yoursizzles – argh, enough of that already! I mean yourselves – back in time to the year 1978.
Patti Smith released her hit album Easter. It had a song on it titled “Rock ‘n’ Roll Nigger.” Its theme was the alienation of the artist: “outside of society.”
In the middle of the song she began exclaiming:
Jimi Hendrix—was a NIGGER!
Jackson Pollock—was a NIGGER!
NIGGERNIGGERNIGGERNIGGERNIGGERNIGGERNIGGER
I mean, just rubbing your face into the forbidden word. What was she trying to accomplish, artistically, by this?
Stpauler , What I meant by santa being white (or jesus for that matter) was that of course this must affect young black children in at least a small way. I brought it up as an exception…passively racist maybe.
monstro , point well taken but any contact I’ve ever had with older black men were pleasant. Almost every older black person I met have been more than nice to me and an attitude I could only hope to have one day.
It’s the younger black people, like Chris Rock saying that stuff.
I already said I didn’t think it was AS easy to be black but I do think we’ve made huge strides in racial relations.
Also, there are many more black people in higher positions and more television shows on TV starring black people. In my mind, everyday stuff like that shows that things are peachier.
There are opportunities for black people to get low cost housing in nicer neighborhoods, allowing their children to attend better schools. I live in an upper middle class neighborhood and there’s some available low cost housing.
A black person can go about his business without anyone looking at him, walk down my street without being suspected of anything.
Being black is no longer a valid excuse for not reaching your goals in life (unless you’re running for president).
Then there’s a whole side issue of blacks being racist, not only against whites but also against blacks. If a black person is overly friendly with a white person or doesn’t adopt the sentiment that’s expected of them, they’re often accused of being “uncle toms”. And god forbid they marry a white woman or man.
And for the record, I don’t come from an affluent land owning family and have no political connections to anyone.
I’m maybe a third, possibly a fourth generation italian/polish mutt american.
Rooves, I thought this thread was about sensitivity over “nigger”. Please explain how your last two posts relate to this topic.
Whatever Patti Smith’s racial feelings were, her attempt to compare her status as an “artist” to racial oppression is fucking ridiculous.
Hmmmm, you know I occasionally have said that phrase, and what I guess is the derivitive “forshneezy my kneezy”. I just thought it was kind of funny to say that instead of “yes”, thus showing my love for Snoop and Jay-Z. And I had absolutely no idea that either was derivitive of “nigger” etymologically. (This reminds me of the period when I somehow ended up referring to my younger friends as “boy”, and when informed that here and further south that’s a racist apellation for adult blacks, I felt glad I hadn’t ended up on the receiving end of a knuckle sandwich for my ignorance.)
All the same, I have no intention to stop saying the “forshizzle/shneezy/neezy/nizzle/etc” variants even upon hearing this. If the word has evolved so far that I didn’t even recognize the link, then IMHO the link to a legacy of racism has been severed. I’m practically certain I’ve used the phrase around black people and none have ever beaten me up or even looked askanse at me.
What I always found awkward was rapping along with a song that has “nigga” in it. I was (and I guess still am) a fan of the early 90’s west-coast gangsta rap, like Snoop and Dre, and know most of their lyrics by heart. I invariably start rapping along with them whenever they come on, at a party, in the car, at the club, etc. (Since I had the albums, I’m familiar with the uncensored lyrics, not the radio edits.) Sometimes I’ve awkwardly skipped the word, sometimes not, and never gotten a word from any black fellas at the party about it, but that scene in Down to Earth had me re-thinking. Is that considered acceptable white-person behaviour, to rap along with Snoop or Dre?
Well, mostro, they were in response to what people said, including you.
The word Nigger is only controversial because it’s a focal point of a larger issue. Surely the word nigger in and of itself is harmless.
“But don’t be foolish enough to think that black people have it just as easy as white people, not when everywhere you turn we have to be reminded about their lower IQ scores, their health problems, their crime statistics, and their abject poverty.”
- this also has nothing to do with that word.
Shizzle vs. Shiznit; what is the difference? Inquiring white people want to know!
Also, add me to the list of those who were unaware that nizzle meant nigger. I guess I thought it was just made up slang??
Rooves, you made the statement that the sensitivity over “nigger” seems to indicate that racism is no longer a real problem for black people. My response was that we’re only talking about a span of 40 years separating the “bad old days” from the present. Perhaps “nigger” is offensive because folks still remember the bad old days…which means the bad old days aren’t as behind us as many would like to believe.
This is relevant to the topic.
Making the claim that blacks who mingle with whites are “often” called uncle toms is not relevant to anything I said or to the OP.
(FWIW, I’ve never heard another black person call another an “uncle tom” simply for mingling with whites. For kowtowing to a pro-white political agenda, yes. But not for befriending and marrying whites.)
Another sidenote: I really wish we could get through a thread about black people without people citing something Chris Rock said in his stand-up routine. I have a feeling that without Chris Rock, many people would have absolutely no idea how it is to be black. I love Chris Rock, but folks need to stop treating him like he’s a the Voice of the Black Community. He’s a freakin comedian! He makes people laugh by using hyperbole. Duh!
Shizzle= “Sure” as in, “for sure”.
Shiznit=“Shit” as in, “The shit”.
I’m mullatto, and it staggers my mind whenever I hear white people say they instantly couldn’t understand nizzle=nigga…Snoop talk seems like pig latin, it should be common sense easily picked up by everyone…
Seems like uncool white folk instantly lose any and all ability to pick up words from context when faced with any ebonics. Nigh-hilarious. 
Rhum Runner:
Shiznit is a derogatory slang word for “people who throw a potlatch and never rebuild their wealth.” Effectively, they’re the Dalit of the Athabascan world. If you like, you can confirm this the next time you’re in the Western Subarctic. (Of course, you’ll need to gain the trust of one who can speak Tlingit.)
Come to think of it, as far as I know, I’m one of a slim few on the SDMB entitled to use this ethnic slang.
Therefore
A man who makes a very tidy living saying gibberish words like “shizzle” on the “televizzle” is the essence of The Shiznit.
After hearing about the new Huck Finn outrage, I did a search on the board for nigger and read a lot of posts regarding the matter.
Personally, deep down I feel that we empower an epithet by letting it get to us. Ideally, if we can brush off an epithet aimed at us, it loses it’s power. It only stands to reason that a sentient being should have command over language, and not vice-versa.
However, back in the real world, we’re just human beings that are ruled by emotion as well as logic. An epithet has a way of irritating wounds – wounds that are not only trying to heal, but wounds that are still being inflicted. <- That’s a metaphor for saying that racism is still alive and well in our times. Shocker. I know.
There is a double standard of sorts as to who “gets” to use the term. There were posts in the other threads that I will try to paraphrase and maintain the spirit of the intent. I can bitch, complain or joke about my family, my friends, my heritage, et cetera. I can do so becuase it is more or less understood that beneath my less-than-respectful words, there is an underlying love, acceptance or support of the people I am bashing. If someone else dared to bitch, complain or joke about my family, my friends, my heritage and they didn’t share the same relationship I had, they are on thin fucking ice because I don’t know whether or not they have that underlying love, appreciation or support.
Should African-Americans be hyper-sensitive to the word nigger? Although I think their community could ultimately gain by refusing to give such power to a word, that’s far easier said than done and I would expect that the eptihet will lose its power the exact same day that racism truly dies. As for me, I’m white and there’s no way I am going to needlessly acerbate human relations by using it.
Not to hijack, but I do not agree with the case that Huck Finn be removed from schools. I think Twain’s portrayal of Jim is respectful, especially in comparison to the characterization of African-Americans in works such as "Gone with the Wind. [I haven’t read the book, I’ve only seen the movie – my comments should be taken in that context].
Mr. B, very clever, but IIUC Tlingit belongs to a different branch of Na-Dene than Athapaskan; parallel to, but not subordinate to, Athapaskan (e.g. Navajo/Apache).
Lekin kitne log yeh amriki hindustani bat samajh sakte haiM?
I’m white and I never listen to Snoop Dog (or any other rapper) so how am I supposed to know that nizzle=nigga?
During my recent trip to China, I saw a cultural event on TV which featured young Chinese boys and girls “rappin.” The one word that I was able to recognize was “niggers” and I could only believe the performers simply don’t understand the baggage that word carries.
Hey You! (Not you, but Hey You!): The book GWTW is probably more racist than the movie. It’s pro KKK. It’s pro slavery. One can say it is just reflecting the attitudes of the main characters, and I am sure it does, but the author seems to agree with them. I wouldn’t “ban” it though, it is well worth reading. I managed to survive Mitchell and Rand without becoming a racist or a libertarian.
It seems people think books can only be offensive or inoffensive… that’s not a very interesting way to look at books.
monstro ,
I wasn’t trying to imply that it be okay for whites to call blacks nigger. What I meant was that the word, when used by a white person, indicates more about the person saying it than the person it’s being said about.
When a white person calls someone nigger, it flashes a giant arrow over his head “RACIST”. To me, that is an indication that things are better in the little over 40 years. I’m not trying to say that there is no longer racism at all.
I have no overall point I’m trying to convince anyone of, unlike maybe you, I’m just writing out my curiosities and observations as they hit me.
I figured that shizzle, nizzle, etc (snoopspeak) was so common nowadays that people had been exposed to it. If you’re exposed to snoopspeak enough, you should be able to figure out that the snoopizations all share a pattern. Take random words like “Great debates” and it becomes “Graytizzle Debizzle”, etc. It’s easier than pig latin, which most kids are able to pick up easily.
I guess it comes down to your media exposure to it. I still think that it’s more a matter of cultural difference and fear of the unknown than it’s enigma-killing complexity. You won’t understand snoop-speak or any other ebonics stuff if you don’t try to figure it out from context, or assume you can’t figure it out if you try. (No, “Oh, I just don’t understand that stuff.”)
But then again, I’m a media and urban culture junkie.
So, suppose someone rearends me in traffic and then drives off without taking responsibility. Enraged, I shake my fist at them and shout,
“Maternally-Fornicating X Y Z.”
What’s the ettiquete here?
I’m supposing Z can be asshole/bastard or bitch, depending on whether the other driver is male or female. Or, if I’m Victorian, I suppose I could use cad or cur or something of that nature.
I’m supposing X can reference some alleged physical or mental deficiency of the other driver that may or may not explain their conduct-- stupid, crazy, fat, bald, skinny, teen-age, over-the-hill, etc.
What, if any, race/ethnic/religious/sexual preference/class/political terms can I use for Y?
An interesting clue here is that we’d almost all feel free to to use ‘rich’ as an epithet–both allowable and effective. ‘Homeless’ is effective, but probably offensive. ‘Poor’ wouldn’t be effective and might or might not be offensive.
And what about ‘wigger?’