# That song is kinda rape-y, isn't it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 11, 2016, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-song-is-kinda-rape-y-isnt-it/748693 "2016-03-11T22:03:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2016, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-song-is-kinda-rape-y-isnt-it/748693/41 "2016-03-13T18:13:58Z")
Fire is a completely different song sung by The Pointer Sisters, which I’m more familiar with. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-song-is-kinda-rape-y-isnt-it/748693/42 "2016-03-14T00:44:27Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > The Who’s _A Quick One_ (1967?) is like this – meant to be humorous, so knowingly “rapey,” yet its existence tells you something about the norms of the time and place. I don’t think the Who song is rapey at all - she just got more or less willingly seduced, and even admits it. It went further with Ivar, but she also “kissed a few.” ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-song-is-kinda-rape-y-isnt-it/748693/43 "2016-03-14T00:57:57Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I don’t think the Who song is rapey at all - she just got more or less willingly seduced, and even admits it. It went further with Ivar, but she also “kissed a few.” I think what **JKellyMap** may be getting at is that the heroine of this mini-opera is a Girl Guide who is described as a “little girl”. When she encounters Ivar, he offers her candy and asks her to talk a walk with him. So while she may have been _willing_, it sounds like she may have been waaaaay too young to consent. On the other hand, plenty of songs refer to teenagers or even adult women as “little girls” (e.g. Bruce Springsteen’s “I’m on Fire”), and while I don’t know the age cut-off for Girl Guides (or what it would have been in the '60s), girls in the US today can be Girl Scouts through high school. I’d guess that the “little girl” in “A Quick One, While He’s Away” was intended to be a teenager and not a young child, but a songwriter today would probably be a lot more careful about making this clear. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-song-is-kinda-rape-y-isnt-it/748693/44 "2016-03-14T01:10:13Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > On the other hand, plenty of songs refer to teenagers or even adult women as “little girls” (e.g. Bruce Springsteen’s “I’m on Fire”), and while I don’t know the age cut-off for Girl Guides (or what it would have been in the '60s), girls in the US today can be Girl Scouts through high school. I’d guess that the “little girl” in “A Quick One, While He’s Away” was intended to be a teenager and not a young child, but a songwriter today would probably be a lot more careful about making this clear. I think the “Girl Guide” stuff was just an onstage joke. The original studio recording refers to her only as “little girl.” Since the whole point of the story of her fling with Ivor is that she’s being unfaithful to her absent lover, I assume she is of the age of consent. Either that, or both her lover _and_ Ivor are molesters. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-song-is-kinda-rape-y-isnt-it/748693/45 "2016-03-14T01:27:58Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > I think the “Girl Guide” stuff was just an onstage joke. The original studio recording refers to her only as “little girl.” Since the whole point of the story of her fling with Ivor is that she’s being unfaithful to her absent lover, I assume she is of the age of consent. Either that, or both her lover _and_ Ivor are molesters. I don’t think it’s made explicit in the song that the girl and her boyfriend have ever actually had sex. Although he is referred to as a man, so if she’s underage that’s still creepy. As I said, I think she’s supposed to be a teenager, but even without the Girl Guide reference she’s still a “little girl” who’s offered candy by Ivor (who’s old enough to work as an engine driver) and describes what happened next as sitting on Ivor’s lap and then taking a nap with him. This specific wording may have been chosen simply because of the lap/nap rhyme, but it does make the girl sound childlike. Then again, maybe she’s just being coy. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-song-is-kinda-rape-y-isnt-it/748693/46 "2016-03-14T02:59:15Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > Fire is a completely different song sung by The Pointer Sisters, which I’m more familiar with. There is a backstory. Originally, Springsteen didn’t think the song _Fire_ fit with the other tracks on _Darkness on the Edge of Town_. He first offered the song to Donna Summer (he was a fan), but there was a record company conflict so the song wound up going to the Pointer Sisters. The Pointer Sisters version was the first time _Fire_ was recorded and released, and it was their first big hit, reaching #2 on the U.S. charts in 1978. The whole idea that the song is “rapey” is retarded. It could just as easily be interpreted as someone teasing or playing hard to get. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-song-is-kinda-rape-y-isnt-it/748693/47 "2016-03-14T03:21:19Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Nope, although there were the so-called “Mickey Finns”, or “knockout drops”, typically chloral hydrate. > > “What’s in this drink?” used to be a joking expression for _“I’m being rather daring or improper in my behavior and I’m going to blame it on the alcohol I’ve consumed”_. > > It did not mean _“I’m alarmed at my inexplicable physical impairment or incapacity and I’m literally worried that you deliberately drugged me”_. I interpreted it as “I can’t figure out what this tastes like.” ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-song-is-kinda-rape-y-isnt-it/748693/48 "2016-03-14T03:26:56Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > Fire is a completely different song sung by The Pointer Sisters, which I’m more familiar with. Look up the lyrics. It’s the same song; I’ve always interpreted it as someone playing coy or hard-to-get. As for “Daddy Should Have Stayed In High School”, IMHO it’s about some people who like a little S&M getting their consensual freak on. Knowing what I do now, I’m surprised it doesn’t mention safe words. :o ---
**Author:** ![Hermione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cdc98d/32.png) [@Hermione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermione)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-song-is-kinda-rape-y-isnt-it/748693/49 "2016-03-14T04:20:56Z")
Sorry, but [I can never hear “Fire” without laughing.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vT-VaMXsAw) ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-song-is-kinda-rape-y-isnt-it/748693/50 "2016-03-14T07:36:22Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Look up the lyrics. It’s the same song; I’ve always interpreted it as someone playing coy or hard-to-get. > > As for “Daddy Should Have Stayed In High School”, IMHO it’s about some people who like a little S&M getting their consensual freak on. Knowing what I do now, I’m surprised it doesn’t mention safe words. :o I k ow it’s (almost) the same song. The lyrics are different since Bruce is singing about trying to get into a girl’s pants and the Pointer Sisters are singing about wanting a guy despite thier better judgment. ---
**Author:** ![JcWoman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jcwoman/32/2889_2.png) [@JcWoman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JcWoman)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-song-is-kinda-rape-y-isnt-it/748693/51 "2016-03-14T17:45:02Z")
Not yet rapey, but Queensryche’s song “[Gonna Get Close to You](http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/queensryche/gonnagetclosetoyou.html)” [lyrics] is straight up stalker. Despite that, I had a crush on Geoff Tate for the longest time! (Note the username… 😃 ) ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-song-is-kinda-rape-y-isnt-it/748693/52 "2016-03-14T18:12:03Z")
I’ve got to mention **Muskrat Love** , if only for the science going on. Muskrats, like minks, ferrets, and felines biologically rely on rough sex to induce ovulation in the female. One mink farming strategy uses a scruffy, tough, expendable male to fight with a female until she submits. He is then removed before he can mount her, and the “good” male is put in to inseminate the female. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-song-is-kinda-rape-y-isnt-it/748693/53 "2016-03-14T19:38:18Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > _Well, he took little Susie to the junior prom, > Excitable boy, they all said, > And he raped her and killed her, then he took her home, > Excitable boy, they all said, > Well, he’s just an excitable boy._ > > - Warren Zevon They played that song at a High School dance these many years ago when I went to HS! I suspect no-one noticed how horribly inappropriate that was except me (it has a very upbeat sound, most people aren’t at a dance to listen to song lyrics … I probably wouldn’t have caught it, if I wasn’t already familiar with the album). I’m also guessing that was the DJ having a laugh. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_Arachnid_Laser_1)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2016, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-song-is-kinda-rape-y-isnt-it/748693/54 "2016-03-17T18:11:23Z")
After hearing The Wombats’ [Be Your Shadow](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tZ5Nr4_1KI) for the millionth time, it dawned on me that the lyrics could be interpreted as being a bit stalker-ish. _Kiss me with your fist it’s all right Wrap your hands around my throat I won’t mind I’m permanent, now I won’t go I just wanna be your shadow_ But maybe I’m being oversensitive. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2016, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-song-is-kinda-rape-y-isnt-it/748693/55 "2016-03-17T22:24:58Z")
> [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser](#): > > After hearing The Wombats’ [Be Your Shadow](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tZ5Nr4_1KI) for the millionth time, it dawned on me that the lyrics could be interpreted as being a bit stalker-ish. > > _Kiss me with your fist it’s all right > Wrap your hands around my throat I won’t mind > I’m permanent, now I won’t go > I just wanna be your shadow_ > > But maybe I’m being oversensitive. I’m thinking that’s not rape-y so much as masochist-y. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2016, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-song-is-kinda-rape-y-isnt-it/748693/56 "2016-03-17T22:31:35Z")
Gary Pucket and the Union Gap’s This Girl is a Woman Now. How old is “this girl”? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2016, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-song-is-kinda-rape-y-isnt-it/748693/57 "2016-03-18T02:27:49Z")
I think Bruce Springsteen’s “I’m on Fire” (pedo creepiness with a suggestion of incest) is 'way more disturbing than “Fire” (sultry attraction in a car). > **[Bruce Springsteen - I'm On Fire Lyrics | AZLyrics.com](https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/brucespringsteen/imonfire.html)** > > Bruce Springsteen "I'm On Fire": Hey, little girl, is your daddy home? Did he go away and leave you all alone? I got a bad desire Oh... > **[Bruce Springsteen - Fire Lyrics | AZLyrics.com](https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/brucespringsteen/fire.html)** > > Bruce Springsteen "Fire": I'm driving in my car I turn on the radio I'm pulling you close You just say no You say you don't li... ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2016, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-song-is-kinda-rape-y-isnt-it/748693/58 "2016-03-18T02:49:15Z")
Just read the lyrics to Fire. I agree it isn’t rapey, but only because he’s only trying to convince her with words. Sure, she is attracted to him. The kisses are mutual. But she’s not ready for sex. And she’s not in love with him. Had she just pulled away, I could see it as playing coy. But saying she doesn’t love him? That sounds more like saying it’s just a fling, and she doesn’t really want to have sex or be in a relationship with him. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2016, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-song-is-kinda-rape-y-isnt-it/748693/59 "2016-03-18T03:51:48Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > A song is a song, a piece of fiction. It may be about rape or pedophilia or even boy scouts spying on girls. That doesn’t mean it’s an endorsement. Would you not read _Lolita_ because Humbert Humbert’s pursuit of a 12-year old girl skeeves you out? Then you’re missing one of the greatest novels of the 20th century. > > In other words a song can still be a great song whatever story it’s telling. When \*\*An Education \*\*was out, the manager at the movie theater said he would never watch something that featured sex with an underage girl! /righteous indignation He missed out on a good movie. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-song-is-kinda-rape-y-isnt-it/748693.md?page=2)