# That Violent Twitch **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 3, 2000, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-violent-twitch/6855 "2000-02-03T03:15:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aenea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c68b51/32.png) [@aenea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aenea)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2000, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-violent-twitch/6855/1 "2000-02-03T03:15:00Z")
## You know it if you’ve had one. The one that wakes you completely up just as you are about to fall asleep. For me it’s a violent twitch, I’ve heard others describe it as a sensation of falling. I’ve heard it said that this is the last rush of adrenalin through your body before you sleep, but I don’t believe it. Most people experience adreneline rushes in their lives, and I remember mine vividly. I have a physical reaction to adreneline each time, whereas during/after this sleep-twitch thing there is no reaction. So what causes this? Do other people besides the odd ducks I know experience this? If you could remember _all_ of your dreams… you certainly would not want them to come true. ---
**Author:** ![Kat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b19c9b/32.png) [@Kat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kat)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2000, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-violent-twitch/6855/2 "2000-02-03T03:28:00Z")
You could start here: [Why does my body jerk when I’m falling asleep?](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_423b.html) * * * Your Official Cat Goddess since 10/20/99. “I’m a god. I’m not _the_ God–I don’t think.” --P.C. ---
**Author:** ![ellis555](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e36b37/32.png) [@ellis555](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ellis555)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2000, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-violent-twitch/6855/3 "2000-02-03T03:30:00Z")
it happens to me all the time when i’m falling asleep in lecture. i always assumed it was my head finally dropping to my chest as i lost the conscious power to keep it straight up on my neck. hence, the falling sensation. are you referring to something different? in that, you are lying in bed going to sleep, and suddenly jerk yourself awake? if so, i don’t have a clue, as it’s never happened to me. woken up when i’ve had a falling dream before, but never a spontaneous jerk awake. -ellis ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2000, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-violent-twitch/6855/4 "2000-02-03T03:30:00Z")
I had a friend in school who was epileptic. So our class was treated to an imformational lecture about the disorder, and the lecturer stated that the twitch you describe was related to epilepsy. Peace, mangeorge * * * I only know two things; I know what I need to know And I know what I want to know Mangeorge, 2000 ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2000, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-violent-twitch/6855/5 "2000-02-03T04:56:00Z")
I have always understood that it was as you fell asleep and your conscious mind let loose it’s grip so the subconcious could run amok, as it were. That violent jerk, you mentioned, is the last clutch of control exercised by a grasping consciousness. * * * “Wisdom is the booby prize, they give you when you’ve been unwise.” ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2000, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-violent-twitch/6855/6 "2000-02-03T05:34:00Z")
You might as well try to explain the [piss shiver](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/940722.html); maybe they’re related. * * * TT “Believe those who seek the truth. Doubt those who find it.” --Andre Gide ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Vimes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@Sam\_Vimes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Vimes)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2000, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-violent-twitch/6855/7 "2000-02-03T11:05:00Z")
So what you’re telling me is that if I wet the bed just as I’m falling to sleep, I’m going to have an epileptic seizure? Thanks for warning me. * * * I abso-fucking-lutely am standing on the surface of the fucking moon. I am talking to you from the goddamned fucking moon. Jesus H. Christ in a chicken basket.–Neil Armstrong ---
**Author:** ![matt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@matt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2000, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-violent-twitch/6855/8 "2000-02-03T12:37:00Z")
This is called a “myclonic twitch.” When you’re asleep, your body enters a state of partial paralysis to prevent you from moving while you dream, otherwise you’d be trying to run and move your arms about, etc. When you’re just falling asleep, this mechanism may kick in (which can give you a falling sensation) and kick out again, causing you to twitch. A much rarer phenomenon is when you wake up and the paralysis continues for a few minutes. That’s an experience I can do without! ---
**Author:** ![Jinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Jinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinx)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2000, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-violent-twitch/6855/9 "2000-02-03T14:49:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by matt: > **This is called a “myclonic twitch.” > When you’re asleep, your body enters a state of partial paralysis to prevent you from moving while you dream, otherwise you’d be trying to run and move your arms about, etc. > When you’re just falling asleep, this mechanism may kick in (which can give you a falling sensation) and kick out again, causing you to twitch.** Matt, you’ve obviously never observed a person when they sleep. Do you always awake in the same position? Ever talk in your sleep? Ever heard of sleep walking? My sister was found outside trying to put the trash at the curb because of her dream! Have you ever seen a baby sleep? My newborn of 6 months shows more bodily movement (esp. with legs kicking in a vertical position!) than when she’s awake! Also, pets frequently are fast asleep with legs running, nose snorting, etc., acting out the dream. Paralysis? I think not! ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Zambezi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7cd45c/32.png) [@Mr.Zambezi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Zambezi)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2000, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-violent-twitch/6855/10 "2000-02-03T17:49:00Z")
The paralysis is true. Have you ever had a dream that you were running? Well, did you wake up 300 yards away from your bed? Of course not. While you may not be entirely immobile the \*entire[/1] time that you are asleep, you are pretty well frozen while in REM. I saw a PBS show on sleep and they had a guy in whom the paralysis was absent. When he went into REM, he was an absolute danger to himself and others. ---
**Author:** ![ignatiusjreilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@ignatiusjreilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ignatiusjreilly)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2000, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-violent-twitch/6855/11 "2000-02-04T06:03:00Z")
I know what you’re talking about. My own experience doesn’t usually have anything to do with falling, rather, it’s just a sudden uncontrollable movement of my leg or arm or something. It’s freaky, but I’ve never noticed there to be anything wrong or uncomfortable. On a related note: Does the “falling then you die if you don’t wake up” story have any relationship to the movie _The Matrix_? Kind of the same theory I guess. If you die in the Matrix you die in real life. Let just say that’s one of the coolest movies I have every seen, as if any of you care to know… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2000, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-violent-twitch/6855/12 "2000-02-04T06:37:00Z")
> [@](#): > > A much rarer phenomenon is when you wake up and the paralysis continues for a few minutes. That’s happened to me before, although the feeling only lasts for about thirty seconds. It’s often accompanied by visual or auditory hallucinations, as I shake off the last bit of a dream. I know it’s going on because my clock is readily visible from my bed, so I can see that the time doesn’t change. It’s scary as hell. * * * “Buffalo Bills? Oh, yeah. The guys that always snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.” --WallyM7 ---
**Author:** ![Jinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Jinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinx)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2000, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-violent-twitch/6855/13 "2000-02-03T21:24:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by Mr.Zambezi: > **The paralysis is true. Have you ever had a dream that you were running? Well, did you wake up 300 yards away from your bed? Of course not.** So, then sleepwalking is just a UL? What about wet dreams? No paralysis there! Just because the brain is thinking of an image doesn’t always mean the body necessarily follows! Did the people who study this ever think of other possibilities? Sure, looks like selective paralysis! So, like, when we slip out of REM sleep so many cycles per night, we’re always going in and out of paralysis, right? Amazing how quickly the body can snap out of this. So, if the phone rings in the middle of REM sleep, you shouldn’t be able to move, or does this paralysis just spontaneously disperse? The whole theory sounds highly questionable. ---
**Author:** ![aenea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c68b51/32.png) [@aenea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aenea)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2000, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-violent-twitch/6855/14 "2000-02-03T22:05:00Z")
The sensation I have is like yours jonnyh, a sudden movement of the arm or leg. I’ve heard of the sleep paralysis thing too. It is especially commented on in “alien abduction” cases by sceptics who say that this paralysis and the panic that can accompany it are related to the sensation of being abducted. I’ve never been abducted, so I wouldn’t have any first hand knowledge about that. 😉 But my eye doctor says that the optic nerve is the one that signals the release for REM sleep. Glad to know I’m not the only one that twitches! ---
**Author:** ![Missy2U](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3bc359/32.png) [@Missy2U](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Missy2U)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2000, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-violent-twitch/6855/15 "2000-02-03T22:10:00Z")
Sleepwalking is no UL - I have that problem. Have considered starting a thread on it, but everyone will probably think I’m nuts or something… ---
**Author:** ![matt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@matt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2000, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-violent-twitch/6855/16 "2000-02-03T22:21:00Z")
Fair points Jinx! The truth is although the paralysis mechanism has been well studied (it has a characteristic EEG trace, among other things), nobody really knows what it’s for. Or why it goes wrong. Try web searches for “sleep paralysis”, “REM sleep” or “sleep research” to see just how many groups are working on this! [http://www.science.wayne.edu/~bio340/StudentPages/Soliman/physweb.html](http://www.science.wayne.edu/~bio340/StudentPages/Soliman/physweb.html) is a good article to start with. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Zambezi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7cd45c/32.png) [@Mr.Zambezi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Zambezi)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2000, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-violent-twitch/6855/17 "2000-02-03T22:25:00Z")
Jinx, I thought this was common knowledge. But since you want proof, well here it is > [@](#): > > REM and SP [sleep paralysis]: SP has also been associated with REM states, particularly with sleep onset and sleep offset REM (SOREM) (Nan’no, Hishikawa, & Koida, 1970). In both REM dreams and SP hallucinations a general atonia is maintained during REM by marked and sustained hyperpolarization of the motoneurons (Chase & Morales, 1989). **One likely function of the general atonia is the prevention of the physical enactment of the motor components of dreaming** There are at least two major traditional hypotheses concerning the connection between neurophysiological events and visual imagery in dreams. The visual imagery of dreaming may arise either from the direct stimulation of visual areas of the cortex during the PGO spike, in which case the rapid eye movements may reflect attempts to scan the images (Ladd, 1892; Roffwarg, Dement, & Muzio, 1962), or conversely, the mages may be produced by the oculomotor impulses in response to direct stimulation from the gigantocellular pontine reticular field (Hobson & McCarley, 1977; McCarley & Hobson, 1979). (emphasis mine) check out this site if you want to read more about SP (sleep paralysis) [http://watarts.uwaterloo.ca/~acheyne/S\_P2.html#SPREM](http://watarts.uwaterloo.ca/~acheyne/S_P2.html#SPREM) ---
**Author:** ![Jinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Jinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinx)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2000, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-violent-twitch/6855/18 "2000-02-03T22:29:00Z")
In defense of Missy2U, I agree that sleepwalking is quite real. Hey, you can funding to study anything you wish. In one night, I can think of many subjects to video tape with active REM sleep periods to blow this “paralysis” theory out of the water. The so-called experts have missed something quite basic somewhere along the line. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Zambezi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7cd45c/32.png) [@Mr.Zambezi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Zambezi)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2000, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-violent-twitch/6855/19 "2000-02-03T22:36:00Z")
[patience on] Jinx, well cited sources point out that SP is a fact. Studies have been done which demonstrate the phenomenon. People on this very board have had SP halucinations, self included. do you maintain that they (we) all have it wrong? If so, I would expect some support from you. Otherwise, it looks like you are just being stubborn. ---
**Author:** ![woodja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ebca7d/32.png) [@woodja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodja)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2000, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-violent-twitch/6855/20 "2000-02-03T22:37:00Z")
> [@](#): > > So, then sleepwalking is just a UL? What about wet dreams? No paralysis there! Just because the brain is thinking of an image doesn’t always mean the body necessarily follows! Did the people who study this ever think of other possibilities? Sure, looks like selective paralysis! So, like, when we slip out of REM sleep so many cycles per night, we’re always going in and out of paralysis, right? Amazing how quickly the body can snap out of this. So, if the phone rings in the middle of REM sleep, you shouldn’t be able to move, or does this paralysis just spontaneously disperse? The whole theory sounds highly questionable. Well, you can question whatever you want, it’s healthy exercise, but in this case there is about 100% consensus among those who do sleep research that paralysis during REM is the rule, though one that there are exceptions to, as has been mentioned. Sleep walking is an example, and a fairly rare and serious one. But paralysis during REM is most definitely the norm, according to everything I have read or heard on the subject (which is a lot: my wife and several of our friends work at the sleep lab at Western Psychiatric in Pittsburgh. They did sleep studies on space shuttle astronauts, it was pretty cool). Here’s a quote I found at a sleep web site ( [http://www.sfn.org/briefings/rem\_sleep.html](http://www.sfn.org/briefings/rem_sleep.html) ): > [@](#): > > Scientists found that brain activity during REM sleep begins in the > pons, a structure in the brainstem, and neighboring midbrain regions. > The pons sends signals to the thalamus and to the cerebral cortex, > which is responsible for most thought processes. It also sends signals > to turn off motor neurons in the spinal cord, causing a temporary > paralysis that prevents movement. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-violent-twitch/6855.md?page=2)