# That \*was\* civil, Jonathan Chance **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [October 22, 2016, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-civil-jonathan-chance/769322 "2016-10-22T08:23:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2016, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-civil-jonathan-chance/769322/1 "2016-10-22T08:23:02Z")
Not a huge deal, but I want to be clear here: I was being civil. Here’s the posts in question: > [@Clinton v Trump - The Stretch Run Thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/3233): > > > [@Clinton v Trump - The Stretch Run Thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/3192): > > > > #Trumpbookreport > > > > Kind of like “If LOTR was written by someone else”, but in 140 characters as done by Trump. You can find it on Twitter if you wish. I decided to do the Dune books: > > Wow! That was both terrible and pointless! I will try and remain hopeful that you will not post anything else like it again in this thread. and **Jonathan Chance** ’s ‘The Moderator Speaks’ post: > [@Clinton v Trump - The Stretch Run Thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/3247): > > > [@Clinton v Trump - The Stretch Run Thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clinton-v-trump-the-stretch-run-thread/767277/3233): > > > > Wow! That was both terrible and pointless! I will try and remain hopeful that you will not post anything else like it again in this thread. > > That’s enough, right there. > > Everyone remain civil. Again: what I posted was civil and there was no need and no call for your mod note, unless we are now not free to speak up if we find a post inconsequential, off-target (in this case unfunny) and/or similarly poorly constructed. I used no profanity and did not attack **JohnT** personally. So what was uncivil? Or were you just offering some pre-emptive chill? ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2016, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-civil-jonathan-chance/769322/2 "2016-10-22T09:18:20Z")
Links are nice. Here’s **Snowboarder Bo** replying to **John T** : [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19719579&postcount=3226](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19719579&postcount=3226) And here’s **Jonathan Chance’s** mod note: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19719956&postcount=3240](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19719956&postcount=3240) Yes, I know if you click on the little arrow in the quote box, it takes you to the post, but full links are easier to click on, especially on a phone. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2016, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-civil-jonathan-chance/769322/3 "2016-10-22T09:45:09Z")
This thread is either terrible or pointless. Not both, though. Anyway, the OP slightly overreacted and the possibly the mod slightly overreacted. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2016, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-civil-jonathan-chance/769322/4 "2016-10-22T09:50:30Z")
Reply in wrong thread, oops. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2016, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-civil-jonathan-chance/769322/5 "2016-10-22T10:44:20Z")
It might be borderline “junior mod’ing” in the sense that you’re telling a poster what he should or should not post, but I didn’t see **SB’s** post as particularly uncivil. And who else was **JC** referring to when he said “everyone” remain civil? Was the thread getting too contentious overall? I’ll look forward to **JC’s** explanation. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2016, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-civil-jonathan-chance/769322/6 "2016-10-22T19:50:20Z")
I think you’re misunderstanding my use of the word ‘civil’. Telling someone to not post - or what the can or can’t post - is one of the least civil things that can be done on a board entirely about communicating by posting. It is, in effect, attempting to take away another poster’s ability to participate as he or she sees fit. I didn’t - at the time though I can see how people do - take it as junior modding largely due to the fact that there’s no citing of any rule or such and therefore no attempt to assume a false level of authority. In any event, I didn’t consider it civil and issued a note. For all of me, I’m still mystified at Snowborder Bo’s reaction to a rather innocuous post. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2016, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-civil-jonathan-chance/769322/7 "2016-10-22T20:35:52Z")
**JC** notes comments that are otherwise a fair ball by telling people to knock it off,or some other thing, because he doesn’t like it. When you ask what the problem was, and whether the comment was fair or foul, **JC** replies that it was fair but it was _almost_ foul. I don’t mind proactive modding, but **JC** ’s inconsistencies has driven me from 2 forums he moderates. Telling everyone in a thread to cool it is fine. Mod noting others that they are behaving inappropriately because they _almost_ hit a foul ball is, well, admitting the behavior was appropriate but, you know, it was _almost_ not appropriate. Inconsistent, capricious and totally unnecessary. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2016, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-civil-jonathan-chance/769322/8 "2016-10-22T20:39:46Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > **JC** notes comments that are otherwise a fair ball by telling people to knock it off,or some other thing, because he doesn’t like it. When you ask what the problem was, and whether the comment was fair or foul, **JC** replies that it was fair but it was _almost_ foul. I don’t mind proactive modding, but **JC** ’s inconsistencies has driven me from 2 forums he moderates. Telling everyone in a thread to cool it is fine. Mod noting others that they are behaving inappropriately because they _almost_ hit a foul ball is, well, admitting the behavior was appropriate but, you know, it was _almost_ not appropriate. Inconsistent, capricious and totally unnecessary. I think I disagree. Moderators aren’t just here to enforce the letter of the law, if I understand their role correctly – they’re here to make the board better and to help both posters and discussions continue along well. With that in mind, I think it’s reasonable for moderators to post notes (not warnings) to make sure discussions stay on the straight and narrow, even if a rule hasn’t (yet) been broken. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2016, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-civil-jonathan-chance/769322/9 "2016-10-22T20:48:48Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I think I disagree. Moderators aren’t just here to enforce the letter of the law, if I understand their role correctly – they’re here to make the board better and to help both posters and discussions continue along well. With that in mind, I think it’s reasonable for moderators to post notes (not warnings) to make sure discussions stay on the straight and narrow, even if a rule hasn’t (yet) been broken. But threatening to suspend a poster who; 1. Has no warnings. 2. Is not under mod instruction to do or not do something. 3. JC, just 3 days later does the same thing. Like I said, proactive modding isn’t bad. Capricious modding is. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2016, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-civil-jonathan-chance/769322/10 "2016-10-22T20:56:31Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > But threatening to suspend a poster who; > > 1. Has no warnings. > 2. Is not under mod instruction to do or not do something. > 3. JC, just 3 days later does the same thing. > > . threatening to suspend?? ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2016, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-civil-jonathan-chance/769322/11 "2016-10-22T21:14:58Z")
Remember, Notes are just warnings, and are not noted, unlike Warnings, which are noted. Like, duh! ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2016, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-civil-jonathan-chance/769322/12 "2016-10-22T21:32:23Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > threatening to suspend?? Indeed. Who threatened to suspend who? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2016, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-civil-jonathan-chance/769322/13 "2016-10-22T21:42:24Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > Links are nice. > > Here’s **Snowboarder Bo** replying to **John T** : > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19719579&postcount=3226](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19719579&postcount=3226) > > And here’s **Jonathan Chance’s** mod note: > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19719956&postcount=3240](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19719956&postcount=3240) > > Yes, I know if you click on the little arrow in the quote box, it takes you to the post, but full links are easier to click on, especially on a phone. I apologize, **cochrane** ; I thought that quoting each post in it’s entirety, with the arrow links, would be enough. > [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > I think you’re misunderstanding my use of the word ‘civil’. Telling someone to not post - or what the can or can’t post - is one of the least civil things that can be done on a board entirely about communicating by posting. It is, in effect, attempting to take away another poster’s ability to participate as he or she sees fit. Well it’s a good thing I didn’t do that, isn’t it? > [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > I didn’t - at the time though I can see how people do - take it as junior modding largely due to the fact that there’s no citing of any rule or such and therefore no attempt to assume a false level of authority. > > In any event, I didn’t consider it civil and issued a note. For all of me, I’m still mystified at Snowborder Bo’s reaction to a rather innocuous post. My reaction to your post or to **JohnT** ’s post? My reaction to your post came about because I didn’t say anything uncivil. I didn’t tell **JohnT** what he could and could not post, only that I hoped that he wouldn’t post any more poorly conceived and executed attempts at humor. My reaction to **JohnT** ’s post came about because it was, as I’ve mentioned, a poorly conceived and executed attempt at humor. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2016, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-civil-jonathan-chance/769322/14 "2016-10-22T21:44:00Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > But threatening to suspend a poster who; > > 1. Has no warnings. > 2. Is not under mod instruction to do or not do something. > 3. JC, just 3 days later does the same thing. > > Like I said, proactive modding isn’t bad. Capricious modding is. Suspend? Who? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2016, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-civil-jonathan-chance/769322/15 "2016-10-23T00:24:52Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Not a huge deal, but I want to be clear here: I was being civil. I don’t think you were. If you were having a conversation with someone and they told you that what you just said was pointless and terrible, please don’t participate in the conversation any longer, that would be incredibly rude. That is the opposite of civil. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2016, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-civil-jonathan-chance/769322/16 "2016-10-23T00:34:35Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > **JC** notes comments that are otherwise a fair ball by telling people to knock it off,or some other thing, because he doesn’t like it. When you ask what the problem was, and whether the comment was fair or foul, **JC** replies that it was fair but it was _almost_ foul. I don’t mind proactive modding, but **JC** ’s inconsistencies has driven me from 2 forums he moderates. Telling everyone in a thread to cool it is fine. Mod noting others that they are behaving inappropriately because they _almost_ hit a foul ball is, well, admitting the behavior was appropriate but, you know, it was _almost_ not appropriate. Inconsistent, capricious and totally unnecessary. Yeah–I’ve seen him, both publicly and privately, completely overreact to something because he misunderstood what was going on. It’s pretty frustrating, and I do wish he’d take a deep breath before moderating. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2016, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-civil-jonathan-chance/769322/17 "2016-10-23T05:57:55Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > threatening to suspend?? > [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Indeed. Who threatened to suspend who? > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Suspend? Who? Don’t keep us in suspense! ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2016, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-civil-jonathan-chance/769322/18 "2016-10-23T06:01:19Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Don’t keep us in suspense! He’s answered it [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=808243). Not sure why he found it necessary to start a new thread for it. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2016, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-civil-jonathan-chance/769322/19 "2016-10-23T18:17:51Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > I don’t think you were. If you were having a conversation with someone and they told you that what you just said was pointless and terrible, **please don’t participate in the conversation any longer** , that would be incredibly rude. That is the opposite of civil. (bolding mine) Well then, it’s a good thing that I didn’t do that. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2016, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-civil-jonathan-chance/769322/20 "2016-10-23T18:19:54Z")
I say you should be happy you only got a Note. I got a Warning for purportedly doing the exact same thing. (I didn’t make an ATMB thread because I didn’t feel good, knew it wouldn’t get the Warning rescinded, and knew another thread like it would pop up in the future.) Like you, I do not think my post was telling someone else how to post. I was, in my case, telling someone they didn’t have enough information about the subject to be saying what they said, and then proceeded to offer the information they didn’t know. And I see how, in your case, your were just “attacking the post.” Uncivil? Perhaps. But also the actual rule in GD. There’s no way that attacking anything can ever be fully civil. Furthermore, it was snarky, and snark is always going to seem uncivil. That’s what it is: a snide remark. Snideness isn’t civil. And as I was told back in 2008 when I complained, snark is a huge, huge part of this board, and it will never be completely eliminated. Whether he’ll admit it or not, **Jonathan Chance** has changed how GD and Elections are moderated. He has tightened ship. It’s frustrating that it’s often inconsistently applied (see us purportedly doing the same thing but getting a different response), but we basically just have to accept that the GD we had for over a decade is no longer here. The only way to post in these forums safely is to do a final pass on what you write, and think “How would someone determined to get me in trouble parse my post?” Sure, the vast majority of the time you’ll be find without that. But, seeing how many people get Warnings who never did before (or hadn’t for a long time, showing they’d learned their lesson), it’s the only way to be sure. Or, I guess, post normally, and if you wind up in trouble, assume the board isn’t for you anymore. I know people for whom this is now the case. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-civil-jonathan-chance/769322.md?page=2)