# That \*was\* civil, Jonathan Chance **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [October 22, 2016, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-civil-jonathan-chance/769322 "2016-10-22T08:23:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2016, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-civil-jonathan-chance/769322/21 "2016-10-23T18:35:13Z")
Everybody just chill!!! So that’s what the big fonts look like in action. Kind of cool. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2016, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-civil-jonathan-chance/769322/22 "2016-10-23T19:58:47Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Furthermore, it was snarky, and snark is always going to seem uncivil. That’s what it is: a snide remark. Snideness isn’t civil. And as I was told back in 2008 when I complained, snark is a huge, huge part of this board, and it will never be completely eliminated. > > Whether he’ll admit it or not, **Jonathan Chance** has changed how GD and Elections are moderated. He has tightened ship. It’s frustrating that it’s often inconsistently applied (see us purportedly doing the same thing but getting a different response), but we basically just have to accept that the GD we had for over a decade is no longer here. > > The only way to post in these forums safely is to do a final pass on what you write, and think “How would someone determined to get me in trouble parse my post?” Sure, the vast majority of the time you’ll be find without that. But, seeing how many people get Warnings who never did before (or hadn’t for a long time, showing they’d learned their lesson), it’s the only way to be sure. Well, yes, and I admire JC for his work. The problem is he hands out notes and warnings capriciously. I was given a Warning by him for a joke (perhaps not a \*funny \*joke, true) that was used so often on this board i didnt think in my wildest imaginings I could be warned for it. Now, if he’s gonna change long standing posting traditions here, he cant start handing out warnings. Sticky notes, Mod notes, etc. So even if I had done what you said, I wouldnt have thought I was gonna be the Poster boy for a change in traditional humor postings. If something has been done for a decade without even a raised eyebrow, then a warning out of the blue is not appropriate. Especially as the Mods have determined Warnings are forever. Even tho they state old warnings wont be considered against you, they still insist on not letting old warnings expire. Thus, altho they have \*stated \*old warnings wont be considered against you, their \*action \*in refusing to let them expire belie their words. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2016, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-civil-jonathan-chance/769322/23 "2016-10-23T20:21:18Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Everybody just chill!!! > > So that’s what the big fonts look like in action. Kind of cool. I’m thinking colors, and possibly blinking, might be required. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-civil-jonathan-chance/769322/24 "2016-10-24T15:54:16Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > It’s pretty frustrating, and I do wish he’d take a deep breath before moderating. Some sort of throat-clearing perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-civil-jonathan-chance/769322/25 "2016-10-24T16:04:29Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Especially as the Mods have determined Warnings are forever. Even tho they state old warnings wont be considered against you, they still insist on not letting old warnings expire. Thus, altho they have \*stated \*old warnings wont be considered against you, their \*action \*in refusing to let them expire belie their words. I do not believe any mod has said that old warnings will not be held against a user, but that in general old warnings have much less impact. A very old warning, coupled with a innocuous posting history, followed by a more recent warning is seen more favorably than multiple warnings in a short time. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-civil-jonathan-chance/769322/26 "2016-10-24T16:22:03Z")
> [@GrandWino](#): > > Some sort of throat-clearing perhaps? 🙂 I get where you’re going, but actually the opposite. Throat clearing interrupts a conversation to get others’ attention. The kind of deep breath that matters here is an introspective moment to calm oneself and think carefully before acting. Mods, IMO, should err on the side of charity in reading posters’ words. That sometimes takes a second or third read and a careful examination of whether moderation is necessary in this specific case. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-civil-jonathan-chance/769322/27 "2016-10-24T16:38:22Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > (bolding mine) Well then, it’s a good thing that I didn’t do that. If you think there is a meaningful difference between hoping that someone doesn’t post again and asking them not to post again in the context of that thread then okay. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-civil-jonathan-chance/769322/28 "2016-10-24T17:28:38Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Especially as the Mods have determined Warnings are forever. Even tho they state old warnings wont be considered against you, they still insist on not letting old warnings expire. Thus, altho they have \*stated \*old warnings wont be considered against you, their \*action \*in refusing to let them expire belie their words. You state this misinformation frequently in ATMB, although you have been corrected many times. It merely serves to draw attention to the fact that you have warnings yourself (a couple of them quite recent). Your best strategy is to stop accumulating new warnings rather than worrying about old ones. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-civil-jonathan-chance/769322/29 "2016-10-24T17:32:26Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > You state this misinformation frequently in ATMB, although you have been corrected many times. It merely serves to draw attention to the fact that you have warnings yourself (a couple of them quite recent). Which is misinformation? That old warnings arent counted? Yes, and? This is some sort of subtle warning that if i persist in complaining, action will be taken? ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-civil-jonathan-chance/769322/30 "2016-10-24T17:35:27Z")
I think that the post in question went past uncivil right into being a jerk, and that it was lucky to only get noted. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-civil-jonathan-chance/769322/31 "2016-10-24T19:24:02Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Which is misinformation? That old warnings arent counted? You’ve been told what the policy is. > [@](#): > > Yes, and? This is some sort of subtle warning that if i persist in complaining, action will be taken? You are already under a topic ban on other issues. If you persist in posting misinformation in ATMB over and over again I would consider discussing with the other mods giving you instructions to stop bringing it up. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-civil-jonathan-chance/769322/32 "2016-10-24T20:32:11Z")
I don’t know if there’s anywhere appropriate to state that JohnT seems to have missed the point of #TrumpBookReport. Trump so badly flubbed his answer about Mosul during the third debate that people started talking about how it was like a book report written by a student who’d never read the book and was trying to get by on bluster. [The game behind #TrumpBookReport](https://www.good.is/articles/trump-book-report) was to write a report about a famous book that showed absolutely no understanding of the book, coupled with Trump’s blend of aggression and self-aggrandizement. Thus: > [@](#): > > The bridges, nobody builds a bridge like me. I’ll build one and make Madison County pay for it #TrumpBookReport JohnT’s versions showed an in-depth detailed knowledge of the Dune Series, thereby removing the part of the joke that linked it to the debate. That has nothing to do with the mod note, of course, since Snowboarder wasn’t modded for being incorrect, just uncivil. But I’ve been sitting on that for days, and had to get it off my chest, and if you’re now picturing me as a freakish contortionist I’ve done my job :). ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-civil-jonathan-chance/769322/33 "2016-10-24T20:49:07Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > If you think there is a meaningful difference between hoping that someone doesn’t post again and asking them not to post again in the context of that thread then okay. Yes, I do think there’s a difference between hoping that someone doesn’t post any more terrible attempts at humor and telling someone to never post again. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-civil-jonathan-chance/769322/34 "2016-10-24T20:56:20Z")
**Moderator Note** > [@DrDeth](#): > > Which is misinformation? That old warnings arent counted? I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt here. We do still look at old warnings, but if for example you’ve got a warning from back in 2007 and you’ve been a perfectly fine poster ever since then that warning really isn’t anything to worry about. That’s not quite the same as saying old warnings don’t matter. What I’m saying is that it’s the overall picture we’re looking at. We don’t just count warnings. We do look at everything though, and if warnings in the past point to a behavior pattern that is relevant in the present, we’ll consider them. Like I said, it’s the overall picture we look at. If you’ve been consistently (though rarely) warned for a particular behavior and haven’t changed that behavior, that’s also something that we are going to look at. In any event, this is all off topic for this thread, which is about **Jonathan Chance** ’s moderation of **Snowboarder Bo** and issues directly related to that. If you want to discuss warnings and their expiration, please do so in another thread. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-civil-jonathan-chance/769322/35 "2016-10-24T21:15:38Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Yes, I do think there’s a difference between hoping that someone doesn’t post any more terrible attempts at humor and telling someone to never post again. Then in that spirit I hope that works out for you. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2016, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-civil-jonathan-chance/769322/36 "2016-10-25T00:51:24Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > **JC** notes comments that are otherwise a fair ball by telling people to knock it off,or some other thing, because he doesn’t like it. When you ask what the problem was, and whether the comment was fair or foul, **JC** replies that it was fair but it was _almost_ foul. I don’t mind proactive modding, but **JC** ’s inconsistencies has driven me from 2 forums he moderates. Telling everyone in a thread to cool it is fine. Mod noting others that they are behaving inappropriately because they _almost_ hit a foul ball is, well, admitting the behavior was appropriate but, you know, it was _almost_ not appropriate. Inconsistent, capricious and totally unnecessary. [The only warning I’ve ever received](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18787697&postcount=316) on this board was from JC, with this explanation: “I said ‘be nice’. What part of that was unclear?” Well, all of it. I assumed that “be nice” meant “don’t call people names” or the like, not “don’t even imply that anything is wrong with anyone else’s opinion.” If you don’t want people disagreeing with each other in a GD thread, you should just close it. In fact, I didn’t even disagree in my post that got the warning; I just expressed astonishment that another poster couldn’t imagine people walking to work, and therefore assumed that anyone without a car was unemployed (and who went on to say that we would be better off if those people didn’t vote, because they would just vote for more handouts). On the other hand, I’ve gotten not-warnings when I could justly have gotten them, mostly when I forgot which forum I was in, so I guess it balances out. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2016, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-civil-jonathan-chance/769322/37 "2016-10-25T02:32:36Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > **Moderator Note** > > I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt here. We do still look at old warnings, but if for example you’ve got a warning from back in 2007 and you’ve been a perfectly fine poster ever since then that warning really isn’t anything to worry about. That’s not quite the same as saying old warnings don’t matter. What I’m saying is that it’s the overall picture we’re looking at. We don’t just count warnings. > > We do look at everything though, and if warnings in the past point to a behavior pattern that is relevant in the present, we’ll consider them. Like I said, it’s the overall picture we look at. If you’ve been consistently (though rarely) warned for a particular behavior and haven’t changed that behavior, that’s also something that we are going to look at. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2016, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-civil-jonathan-chance/769322/38 "2016-10-25T03:02:10Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Whether he’ll admit it or not, **Jonathan Chance** has changed how GD and Elections are moderated. He has tightened ship. It’s frustrating that it’s often inconsistently applied (see us purportedly doing the same thing but getting a different response), but we basically just have to accept that the GD we had for over a decade is no longer here. > > The only way to post in these forums safely is to do a final pass on what you write, and think “How would someone determined to get me in trouble parse my post?” That’s why I stopped posting in GD and Elections entirely. I know that the only answer to that question is “don’t post” since _anything_ can be twisted into an infraction. I was OK for years, then suddenly he gave me infraction after infraction and then got me suspended (for the terrible crime of arguing \*against \*genocide, at that). I even saw him using that as a threat to other people. “Don’t let what happened to **Der Trihs** happen to you!” I’m sure that if I post there he’ll infract me _again_ and get me banned. It’s the main reason I stopped paying and am only a Guest and not a Member anymore. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2016, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-civil-jonathan-chance/769322/39 "2016-10-25T13:10:18Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > …suddenly he gave me infraction after infraction and then got me suspended (for the terrible crime of arguing \*against \*genocide… You weren’t suspended for arguing against genocide. You were [suspended](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18084617&postcount=61) for saying another poster wanted people to starve. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2016, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-civil-jonathan-chance/769322/40 "2016-10-25T18:26:41Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > You weren’t suspended for arguing against genocide. You were [suspended](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18084617&postcount=61) for saying another poster wanted people to starve. What, you can’t say that in GD? But Der Trihs was doing it for years. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-civil-jonathan-chance/769322.md?page=1)