# "That was white of you" origin? non-racial? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 26, 2013, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-white-of-you-origin-non-racial/667211 "2013-08-26T16:30:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-white-of-you-origin-non-racial/667211/1 "2013-08-26T16:30:18Z")
I’m reading the works of Raymond Chandler currently. It’s fun. A character in a Marlowe story tells a cop, “Gee, that was white of you”. I was a little shocked. It seems non-racial in its use (like white-knight). Anyone know the origin of the phrase? (avoiding google at work) ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-white-of-you-origin-non-racial/667211/2 "2013-08-26T16:35:43Z")
[Languagelog on ‘white of you’](http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3179). Personally, I’d avoid using it. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-white-of-you-origin-non-racial/667211/3 "2013-08-26T16:48:20Z")
Thanks! Yeah, I’d never use the phrase, but was wondering why Chandler would have. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-white-of-you-origin-non-racial/667211/4 "2013-08-26T16:54:31Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Thanks! Yeah, I’d never use the phrase, but was wondering why Chandler would have. I am often surprised at the level of casual racism expressed in older fiction. It would never have occurred to Chandler that “white of you” was in any derogative to people who did not qualify as “white,” nor is it likely that he would care if it were pointed out to him. This is not to single Chandler out, but was a standard attitude or outlook for most of middle-class America. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-white-of-you-origin-non-racial/667211/5 "2013-08-26T17:24:41Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > [Languagelog on ‘white of you’](http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3179). > > Personally, I’d avoid using it. I remember my aunt using the term “free, white, and 21.” It seemed to mean having a range of opportunities in front of you and no responsibilities behind. Or to be a synonym for carefree. I assumed the ‘free’ referred to marital status. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-white-of-you-origin-non-racial/667211/6 "2013-08-26T17:36:27Z")
it was a statement of a person doing the right thing. “that was right of you.” a character with rhotacism had the line in a story and that delivery caught on and changed the phrase forever. ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-white-of-you-origin-non-racial/667211/7 "2013-08-26T17:52:12Z")
I used to hear the phrase when I was young and it seemed to me, a white person, to mean that the person was doing the right thing, like a only white person would. Usually in regard to someone going above and beyond to help. I always assumed it was a racial thing, implying that one white person would help another white person in a more extensive way than they would a non-white. Recently I’ve heard the same phrase and it was clearly intended to mean ‘that was racist of you.’ ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-white-of-you-origin-non-racial/667211/8 "2013-08-26T18:15:38Z")
> [@Chris Rock](#): > > But it’s all right, because it’s all white. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Stinky\_Pete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Stinky\_Pete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stinky_Pete)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-white-of-you-origin-non-racial/667211/9 "2013-08-26T18:21:31Z")
I am 55 years old and when in my teens and early twenties I would hear the phrase used. In context is meant, “That was a decent thing to do”. I dont know origin but I am pretty sure when used that along with saying you are a good guy it also implied that you could not expect the same decency from a non-white and in particular a black person. Sorry guys but in older days some racially insulting phrases were commonly used by the general public. In those days I lived in Southern California. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-white-of-you-origin-non-racial/667211/10 "2013-08-26T18:50:32Z")
FWIW, my family always used the term—and not very often—as kind of a sarcastic joke, indicating a not-too-impressive display of magnanimity or decency. Lessie…the only example I can think of is Kruge from Star Trek III. “I give you _two_ minutes…for you and your gallant crew.” ---
**Author:** ![MsBatt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@MsBatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsBatt)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-white-of-you-origin-non-racial/667211/11 "2013-08-26T18:55:21Z")
I grew up in the South, in the late 50s and 60s. I heard that phrase often, and it could mean either of two things. Said sincerely, it meant that was a fine, decent thing to do. Said sarcastically, it meant you didn’t behave as well as you could have. ---
**Author:** ![brossa](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brossa/32/3040_2.png) [@brossa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brossa)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-white-of-you-origin-non-racial/667211/12 "2013-08-26T19:32:51Z")
I’m aware of the racist origins of the term, but nowadays I only hear it in the negative sense - ie someone displaying absolute minimum consideration but feeling entitled to praise. It’s a sarcastic usage. “Yep, that’s like a white dude all right - take the best parts of something, leave the crap bits for everyone else, and expect to be thanked for it.” eta - making ‘white’ behavior the standard to avoid rather than the one to aspire to. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-white-of-you-origin-non-racial/667211/13 "2013-08-26T20:22:27Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > A character in a Marlowe story tells a cop, “Gee, that was white of you”. I don’t remember that…perhaps Chandler was using it to describe the opinions of the character. ---
**Author:** ![bubba001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f17d59/32.png) [@bubba001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bubba001)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-white-of-you-origin-non-racial/667211/14 "2013-08-26T20:28:15Z")
I heard it a lot, our area of Michigan was chock full of transplanted Kentuckians. If you wanted to fxxk with them, tell them “white people do it this way” or some variation on that. That got attention right away!! Back in the 60’s and 70’s, I heard the “N” word a lot. Our high school had to change sports leagues, too many fights / riots when we played black schools. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-white-of-you-origin-non-racial/667211/15 "2013-08-26T21:08:54Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I don’t remember that…perhaps Chandler was using it to describe the opinions of the character. _The Little Sister_ A cop does something and (?) another cop says, “that was white of you”. Now move on, before I haveta move ya. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-white-of-you-origin-non-racial/667211/16 "2013-08-26T21:17:00Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > _The Little Sister_ > A cop does something and (?) another cop says, “that was white of you”. > > Now move on, before I haveta move ya. > > 🆒 If they are Bay City cops, Chandler was just rubbing it in that they are ass holes. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-white-of-you-origin-non-racial/667211/17 "2013-08-26T21:39:08Z")
It’s not racial at all. The color white or brightness represents goodness in most cultures. Darkness or the color black is evil. Creatures of the night are evil in mythology. The incubus demon ravages women in the blackness of the night. Angels are depicted in bright light. White of you simply means that’s good of you. Considerate. I’m sure some people have twisted it into something racial but that was not the original meaning or even the intent. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-white-of-you-origin-non-racial/667211/18 "2013-08-26T21:52:04Z")
The phrase takes on a less complementary tone when used by an African American. Or Native American too, for that matter. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-white-of-you-origin-non-racial/667211/19 "2013-08-26T22:08:13Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > The phrase takes on a less complementary tone when used by an African American. Or Native American too, for that matter. Asian Americans, on the other hand, have been known to perform excellent barbershop renditions of the phrase. ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-white-of-you-origin-non-racial/667211/20 "2013-08-26T22:24:09Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > It’s not racial at all. The color white or brightness represents goodness in most cultures. Darkness or the color black is evil. Creatures of the night are evil in mythology. The incubus demon ravages women in the blackness of the night. Angels are depicted in bright light. > > White of you simply means that’s good of you. Considerate. > > I’m sure some people have twisted it into something racial but that was not the original meaning or even the intent. Care to offer a cite? The one [cite](http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3179) provided quotes usages in the 1890s and 1906 clearly showing the racial overtones, concluding: > [@](#): > > It seems to have become common during the period 1890-1920 or so, and to have been used to differentiate the stereotypically dependable ethics of WASPs from the stereotypically questionable ethics of everyone else. Can you provide something showing that it was non-racial before that period? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/that-was-white-of-you-origin-non-racial/667211.md?page=2)