# "That's a false flag. No way that's for real." **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 19, 2016, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-false-flag-no-way-thats-for-real/772426 "2016-11-19T15:39:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-false-flag-no-way-thats-for-real/772426/21 "2016-11-22T02:39:17Z")
Guanolad wrote: “I’m still not sure if this was a sad cynical statement from a black person, or an aggressive one from a racist Trump supporter. It could be read either way.” The use of “does” instead of “do” means white. Black folks don’t make that particular grammatical error. Although, and I might get some flack for saying this, an uneducated black person would be prone to say “do” in place of “does”. Never the other way around. And NOBODY would be sufficiently devious to plant that error as part of a “false flag”. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-false-flag-no-way-thats-for-real/772426/22 "2016-11-22T03:29:54Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Here’s a question: what percentage of reported bias crimes of this sort turn out to have been perpetuated by the “victims” themselves - people trying to publicize these issues (and themselves in the process) and/or demonize their opponents? > > My best guess is about 25%. Maybe more. > > So I’m automatically suspicious of such stories. (E.g. I wouldn’t be surprised if the “Trump supporter” who burned down the black church turned out to be a “false flag” operation of this sort.) I’m as anti-Trump as anyone, but I figure 25% is probably a realistic number. I have nothing to back it up, but I would be very surprised to find out that every swastika is being drawn by an actual Nazi sympathizer. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-false-flag-no-way-thats-for-real/772426/23 "2016-11-22T04:16:00Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I just read this: [Beastie Boys Adam Yauch memorial defaced with anti-Semitic symbols and Pro-Trump graffiti](http://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/hip-hop/7581401/beastie-boys-adam-yauch-memorial-defaced-swastikas-trump). > > Is this real? Or a stunt? I don’t know. It’s a shame either way, and it’s not like either is implausible. This is just fucking sad. That park is literally around the corner from my home, and I take my daughter there to play on the monkey bars all the time. That said, I wonder what’s going on here. I can pretty much guarantee that there are no Trump supporters in this neighborhood. I mean, maybe there are one or two closeted Trump fans, but this is liberal Brooklyn, for God’s sake. It’s not exactly Trump country. We do get teenaged kids there pretty late at night, hanging out and playing basketball. It’s possible (probable, in my opinion) that some teenage asshole painted that graffiti just to piss people off, without actually being a Trump supporter. He (and yes, I’m certain it’s a guy) probably didn’t give the election much thought at all. The graffiti got a huge reaction – you can read about it [here](http://brooklynheightsblog.com/archives/82299). There was quite a large rally (and one of the speakers was Ad-Rock himself, Adam Horovitz). ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-false-flag-no-way-thats-for-real/772426/24 "2016-11-22T04:44:01Z")
The thing is, multiple racist organizations see Trump’s victory as a sign they can come out. The KKK even said so. So the idea that they wouldn’t openly use the swastika because they wouldn’t before is suspect. Especially since it may not even be the same people. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-false-flag-no-way-thats-for-real/772426/25 "2016-11-22T07:32:13Z")
It’s not a Trump supporter and it’s not a False Flag. It’s trolling. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-false-flag-no-way-thats-for-real/772426/26 "2016-11-22T07:50:34Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I just read this: [Beastie Boys Adam Yauch memorial defaced with anti-Semitic symbols and Pro-Trump graffiti](http://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/hip-hop/7581401/beastie-boys-adam-yauch-memorial-defaced-swastikas-trump). > > Is this real? Or a stunt? I don’t know. It’s a shame either way, and it’s not like either is implausible. > > But the buzz is that it’s a “false flag”–one of a supposed parade of many. At least that’s what Trump fans are saying. > > One comment I’ve come across: “This is obviously fake. A trump supporter would write something like, “NO BRAKES” or “CANT STUMP THE TRUMP” or another of their hundred thousand Trump meme phrases. They wouldn’t just write, “go Trump”. Also, there’s absolutely no way they would put up swastikas. That’s the Democrats’ view of what they’re like, not Trump supporters’ views are actually like. They’re not retarded, they know swastikas are not a good thing to paint if you want people to like the person you’re celebrating.” > > So is [this](https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2016/11/proud-trump-supporter-racist-tirade-video.html) fake too? > > Or [this](http://www.mediaite.com/online/trump-supporter-screams-jew-s-a-at-reporters-calls-them-the-enemy-during-rally/)? > > Or [this](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3705289/Donald-Trump-supporter-goes-racist-tirade-not-getting-seat-New-York-subway.html)? > > Or [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ups4FeSuHvY)? > > Perhaps the Yauch memorial really was defaced by pissed-off dyslexic Hillary supporters. I don’t know. No one does except for the person who did it. But yelling “FALSE FLAG” without any proof is just as crazy as automatically believing that every hate crime is genuine. > > I have this real fear that we could all watch video footage of people being mowed down by bullets and tanks, but the masses will be convinced it’s a “false flag” planted by the other side to make us question our loyalties. And most of us will gladly embrace the theory because it will help us sleep at night. “We aren’t capable of that. We’re better than that. So it has to be got-damn lie.” Those are some sad looking swastikas. I know NYC has better graffiti artists than that. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-false-flag-no-way-thats-for-real/772426/27 "2016-11-22T07:52:40Z")
My default assumption is that it’s less likely to be fake the more serious the crime is. Graffiti? Taunts? Maybe. Arson? Mass murder? Probably not. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-false-flag-no-way-thats-for-real/772426/28 "2016-11-22T14:18:15Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > I’m as anti-Trump as anyone, but I figure 25% is probably a realistic number. I have nothing to back it up, but I would be very surprised to find out that every swastika is being drawn by an actual Nazi sympathizer. But that still leaves the other 75 percent. Doesn’t it. I know this past fall, there was some very noticeable Nazi graffiti “right down the road from me” in Reseda, that was never seen around here ever before. ---
**Author:** ![Squallous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/22d042/32.png) [@Squallous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squallous)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-false-flag-no-way-thats-for-real/772426/29 "2016-11-22T20:33:33Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > Seriously, are you _just now_ learning Republican’s hate women, want to build that wall, and ban all Muslims from immigration? And they kick puppies. Don’t forget the puppies. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-false-flag-no-way-thats-for-real/772426/30 "2016-11-22T21:06:56Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > I’m as anti-Trump as anyone, but I figure 25% is probably a realistic number. I have nothing to back it up, but I would be very surprised to find out that every swastika is being drawn by an actual Nazi sympathizer. I doubt strongly that 25% are perpetrated by the victims, but I can easily imagine that number of regular grade assholes who actually don’t give a shit about Trump or his ideals just want to pull pranks and vandalize, etc. And then of course there were those [Trump fans who just don’t realize it is wrong](http://people.com/crime/get-over-it-79-year-old-trump-supporter-arrested-for-allegedly-vandalizing-childrens-mural/) > [@](#): > > “They kept saying, ‘She drew over our stuff first ‘ and the cops said, ‘This is not your property, she’s the owner,'” DuBose says. “The woman looked into my eyes and said, ‘We’re still going to make America great again.’ ” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-false-flag-no-way-thats-for-real/772426/31 "2016-11-22T21:40:31Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > The KKK even said so. I keep seeing this, but it just isn’t so. “The KKK” can’t say anything because there is no “The KKK”. There are several dozen, perhaps hundreds, of very small groups that use the name Ku Klux Klan. The generally don’t affiliate with each other, don’t believe the same things and don’t act the same way. There is no national organization. [Here is the Southern Poverty Law Center’s take](https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/ideology/ku-klux-klan): > [@](#): > > Today, the Center estimates that there are between 5,000 and 8,000 Klan members, split among dozens of different - and often warring - organizations that use the Klan name. 8,000 people nationwide. Fewer people than attend a typical high school football game in South GA. Don’t ascribe to them more power than they deserve, which is virtually nil. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-false-flag-no-way-thats-for-real/772426/32 "2016-11-22T21:42:57Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > It seems a bit unfair to say the crimes of a few represent the will of 61 million people … > […] > Republican[s…] want to build that wall, and ban all Muslims from immigration If it’s unfair to say the crimes of a few represent the will of 61 million people, how much more unfair is it to say the crimes of a few represent the will of 1.6 billion Muslims? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-false-flag-no-way-thats-for-real/772426/33 "2016-11-24T14:52:05Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > If it’s unfair to say the crimes of a few represent the will of 61 million people, how much more unfair is it to say the crimes of a few represent the will of 1.6 billion Muslims? That’s different. Somehow. Maybe cuz they aren’t white enough, maybe cuz they have furrin names, maybe cuz they don’t go to the same snake handling KoolAid chugging tent revival meetin’s way back yonder in the holler. Murrica. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-false-flag-no-way-thats-for-real/772426/34 "2016-12-21T23:42:02Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > So I’m automatically suspicious of such stories. (E.g. I wouldn’t be surprised if the “Trump supporter” who burned down the black church turned out to be a “false flag” operation of this sort.) [Mississippi church member charged in ‘Vote Trump’ arson](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/religion/arrest-in-vote-trump-burning-of-mississippi-black-church/2016/12/21/b3641010-c7bd-11e6-acda-59924caa2450_story.html?utm_term=.46b5e0c64dbd) > [@](#): > > A Mississippi man arrested in the burning of an African-American church that was spray-painted with the words “Vote Trump” is a member of the congregation, the church’s bishop said. > > Andrew McClinton, 45, of Leland, Mississippi, was charged Wednesday with first degree arson of a place of worship, said Warren Strain, spokesman for the Mississippi Department of Public Safety. McClinton is African-American. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-false-flag-no-way-thats-for-real/772426/35 "2016-12-22T05:34:59Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > [Mississippi church member charged in ‘Vote Trump’ arson](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/religion/arrest-in-vote-trump-burning-of-mississippi-black-church/2016/12/21/b3641010-c7bd-11e6-acda-59924caa2450_story.html?utm_term=.46b5e0c64dbd) Throw the damn book at him. Give him whatever the max penalty is. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-false-flag-no-way-thats-for-real/772426/36 "2016-12-22T09:10:42Z")
Fake reports of bias crimes are increasing. After the bullshit story made up by [this NY woman](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/12/15/she-claimed-she-was-attacked-by-men-who-yelled-trump-and-grabbed-her-hijab-police-say-she-lied/?utm_term=.3a22e64fb0b5) a week ago comes another one [from Michigan.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2016/12/21/a-muslim-student-in-michigan-claimed-a-man-threatened-to-set-her-on-fire-police-say-its-a-hoax/) > [@](#): > > A University of Michigan student who told police that a stranger threatened to set her on fire if she didn’t remove her hijab could soon face a felony charge for false reporting. > > Police say there is no evidence proving the student’s report to authorities in November, when she claimed that an intoxicated man threatened her outside the Ann Arbor campus. The investigation will be turned over to the Washtenaw County prosecutor’s office, which will decide if the student should be charged. Do such incidents occur in reality? Regrettably of course they do. But liberal hysteria is also contributing to the hateful stuff above. These two women are as contemptible as the type of scum that do attack minorities. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-false-flag-no-way-thats-for-real/772426/37 "2016-12-22T09:18:11Z")
Drunky Smurf: > [@](#): > > All Trump supporters are anti-semites Including his own daughter and son-in-law? ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-false-flag-no-way-thats-for-real/772426/38 "2016-12-22T12:24:48Z")
And yet another [bogus hate crime.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/12/22/miss-black-church-fire-another-highly-publicized-suspected-hate-crime-debunked-police-say/) > [@](#): > > Miss. black church fire was called a hate crime. Now parishioner has been arrested for it. > > “The animus of this election cycle combined with the potent racial history of burning black churches as a political symbol makes this event something we must not ignore,” a GoFundMe page created at the time said. > > But the Wednesday arrest of a man with a criminal record, 45-year-old Andrew McClinton, quickly dispelled those assumptions. > > McClinton, church and law enforcement officials told the AP, is an African American member of the burned church. According to authorities, the blaze was not motivated by the presidential race. We’re gonna need a separate thread if this keeps up! ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-false-flag-no-way-thats-for-real/772426/39 "2016-12-22T14:04:47Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > And yet another [bogus hate crime.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/12/22/miss-black-church-fire-another-highly-publicized-suspected-hate-crime-debunked-police-say/) > > We’re gonna need a separate thread if this keeps up! That’s not “another”. It’s the same as the one reviving the thread five posts above this. Could tell you something about the biases in your internal statistics machine. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-false-flag-no-way-thats-for-real/772426/40 "2016-12-22T14:19:52Z")
The false flags are equal opportunity. [Firefighter sets his own house on fire, blames Black Lives Matter](http://www.vibe.com/2016/12/firefighter-blames-black-lives-matter/). [Police officer’s wife blames Black Lives Matters on a home robbery she faked](http://time.com/4550455/police-officer-wife-fake-robbery-black-lives-matter/). [Man vandalizes his own car, blames it on Black Lives Matter](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/man-vandalizes-truck-blames-black-lives-matter-article-1.2366871). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-false-flag-no-way-thats-for-real/772426.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-false-flag-no-way-thats-for-real/772426.md?page=3)