# That's a nice VW plant you have there. Would be a shame if something happened to it. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 11, 2014, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-nice-vw-plant-you-have-there-would-be-a-shame-if-something-happened-to-it/681073 "2014-02-11T17:56:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2014, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-nice-vw-plant-you-have-there-would-be-a-shame-if-something-happened-to-it/681073/161 "2014-02-21T17:53:11Z")
> [@Falchion](#): > > I would think the obvious explanation is that the Volkswagen board is controlled by representatives of either the German labor unions or the local German government who both have an interest in making sure that Volkswagen’s overseas operations relatively expensive. Yes, that was my point #1, above. They don’t want ‘cheap-labor American plants’ that undercut them and cause work to be shipped overseas. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2014, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-nice-vw-plant-you-have-there-would-be-a-shame-if-something-happened-to-it/681073/162 "2014-02-21T17:59:22Z")
> [@Falchion](#): > > I would think the obvious explanation is that the Volkswagen board is controlled by representatives of either the German labor unions or the local German government who both have an interest in making sure that Volkswagen’s overseas operations relatively expensive. Half the board - not quite “controlled.” The other half is shareholders. But really? You’re saying Volkswagen wants its own products not to compete well? And if they wanted to charge more for their products, they could just do it. They don’t need a union to force them to. Heck, if they fear competition from their own company’s overseas business, why do they even have it? Why don’t they just shut down VW in the US? Can you please come up with something a little less convoluted? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2014, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-nice-vw-plant-you-have-there-would-be-a-shame-if-something-happened-to-it/681073/163 "2014-02-21T18:02:12Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > Yes, that was my point #1, above. They don’t want ‘cheap-labor American plants’ that undercut them and cause work to be shipped overseas. That would kinda puts a monkey wrench in the whole “U.S. unions are responsible for forcing U.S. manufacturers to send jobs overseas for cheap labor” meme. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2014, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-nice-vw-plant-you-have-there-would-be-a-shame-if-something-happened-to-it/681073/164 "2014-02-21T18:03:32Z")
> [@Falchion](#): > > I would think the obvious explanation is that the Volkswagen board is controlled by representatives of either the German labor unions or the local German government who both have an interest in making sure that Volkswagen’s overseas operations relatively expensive. Why would you think that? I mean, are there facts that support your thinking that, or did you just decide to think it? [Because it isn’t true, or accurate, or based on any kind of reality](http://www.volkswagenag.com/content/vwcorp/content/en/the_group/senior_management.html?Show). Making shit up is not a valid argument and does not classify as “data”. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2014, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-nice-vw-plant-you-have-there-would-be-a-shame-if-something-happened-to-it/681073/165 "2014-02-21T18:03:38Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > Just off the top of my head… Exactly. It doesn’t matter what you say anyway - all I have to do is say “some people refuse to see the truth right in front of them” or some other empty nonsense. You taught me that. ---
**Author:** ![Falchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Falchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falchion)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2014, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-nice-vw-plant-you-have-there-would-be-a-shame-if-something-happened-to-it/681073/166 "2014-02-21T18:30:48Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Why would you think that? I mean, are there facts that support your thinking that, or did you just decide to think it? [Because it isn’t true, or accurate, or based on any kind of reality](http://www.volkswagenag.com/content/vwcorp/content/en/the_group/senior_management.html?Show). > > Making shit up is not a valid argument and does not classify as “data”. Don’t get your panties in a bunch. (Actually your link does a good job of explaining it, but [this one](http://www.volkswagenag.com/content/vwcorp/content/en/investor_relations/corporate_governance/supervisory_board.html)is more informative.). The Supervisory Board has 20 members. Half of those members (that’s 10) are employee representatives (that’s the “German Labor Union” coponent I reference). The other half is “shareholder representatives.” But, 2 of those members are appointed by the government of Lower Saxony (that’s the “local German government” part). So, when I say “the Volkswagen board is controlled by representatives of either the German labor unions or the local German government.” I mean that 12 seats on a 20 person board constitute a majority (also “control”). The notion that both of those groups have an incentive to keep jobs in Germany is my opinion, but you’re going to be hard pressed to convince me that it “isn’t true, or accurate, or based on any kind of reality.” ---
**Author:** ![Steely\_Dan\_Fan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de053/32.png) [@Steely\_Dan\_Fan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steely_Dan_Fan)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2014, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-nice-vw-plant-you-have-there-would-be-a-shame-if-something-happened-to-it/681073/167 "2014-02-21T18:44:25Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Do we really have to play this game? Do I really have to go get links about management hiring thugs to attack and often mass murder striking workers back then too? Especially since all the deaths at Haymarket were due solely to the police? It’s like Melchior went out of hir way to get it exactly backwards. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2014, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-nice-vw-plant-you-have-there-would-be-a-shame-if-something-happened-to-it/681073/168 "2014-02-21T18:47:29Z")
> [@Falchion](#): > > The Supervisory Board has 20 members. Half of those members (that’s 10) are employee representatives (that’s the “German Labor Union” coponent I reference). > > The other half is “shareholder representatives.” But, 2 of those members are appointed by the government of Lower Saxony (that’s the “local German government” part). > > So, when I say “the Volkswagen board is controlled by representatives of either the German labor unions or the local German government.” I mean that 12 seats on a 20 person board constitute a majority (also “control”). Only if you assume the 2 local government-appointed members are always allied with labor. But they are shareholder seats - the local government appoints them because it is a shareholder in the company. So you can’t quite say that labor controls the board. Labor has exactly half the seats. And your theory assumes that VW is competing with itself. I don’t know how they work, but often, foreign automakers with North American plants ship to North American markets only, and Europe’s customers get cars from plants there (which is one reason they have North American plants - to save on shipping). There would be no advantage to making U.S.-made cars more expensive - it would only hurt them when competing against other manufacturers. And if you think VW’s board actually does want its own plant in the U.S. to fail, why not just shut it down? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2014, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-nice-vw-plant-you-have-there-would-be-a-shame-if-something-happened-to-it/681073/169 "2014-02-21T18:48:30Z")
> [@Steely\_Dan\_Fan](#): > > It’s like Melchior went out of hir way to get it exactly backwards. Well, yeah. Spend a few hours reading his posts and you’ll see. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2014, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-nice-vw-plant-you-have-there-would-be-a-shame-if-something-happened-to-it/681073/170 "2014-02-21T18:53:34Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > That would kinda puts a monkey wrench in the whole “U.S. unions are responsible for forcing U.S. manufacturers to send jobs overseas for cheap labor” meme. It depends. Germany is not a ‘cheap labor’ country. In fact, it may have the highest labor costs in the world, which is why German goods tend to be usually among the best and most expensive. Only the finest goods can justify the highest labor costs. It makes no sense to make cheap goods in a high-labor-cost environment. The ‘American’ jobs that are being sent overseas are to low-wage countries. Even Japanese companies are doing that, sending camera production out of Japan to China and other east Asian countries. So, the Germans (labor, government and management) have an interest in not losing work. The best thing for them is for these plants to represent opportunities for business growth and efficiency without losing work in Germany. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2014, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-nice-vw-plant-you-have-there-would-be-a-shame-if-something-happened-to-it/681073/171 "2014-02-21T18:56:08Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Only if you assume the 2 local government-appointed members are always allied with labor. But they are shareholder seats - the local government appoints them because it is a shareholder in the company. So you can’t quite say that labor controls the board. Labor has exactly half the seats. > > And your theory assumes that VW is competing with itself. I don’t know how they work, but often, foreign automakers with North American plants ship to North American markets only, and Europe’s customers get cars from plants there (which is one reason they have North American plants - to save on shipping). There would be no advantage to making U.S.-made cars more expensive - it would only hurt them when competing against other manufacturers. > > And if you think VW’s board actually does want its own plant in the U.S. to fail, why not just shut it down? I believe that there is a ‘Volkswagen law’ which prevents any attempt to take over the company by foreigners. Read all about it here: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen\_Law](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Law) ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2014, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-nice-vw-plant-you-have-there-would-be-a-shame-if-something-happened-to-it/681073/172 "2014-02-21T18:58:23Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > It depends. Germany is not a ‘cheap labor’ country. In fact, it may have the highest labor costs in the world, which is why German goods tend to be usually among the best and most expensive. Only the finest goods can justify the highest labor costs. It makes no sense to make cheap goods in a high-labor-cost environment. > > The ‘American’ jobs that are being sent overseas are to low-wage countries. Even Japanese companies are doing that, sending camera production out of Japan to China and other east Asian countries. > > So, the Germans (labor, government and management) have an interest in not losing work. The best thing for them is for these plants to represent opportunities for business growth and efficiency without losing work in Germany. So shouldn’t we just support labor unions in cheap labor countries too, like you say Germany is doing in the U.S.? Don’t you think a world in which workers make about the same and therefore compete equally is better if it means workers are paid more, rather than all of them being paid less and less and less? Don’t you think that’s better for the world economy too, since workers buy the produces they build? ---
**Author:** ![Falchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Falchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falchion)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2014, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-nice-vw-plant-you-have-there-would-be-a-shame-if-something-happened-to-it/681073/173 "2014-02-21T18:58:23Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Only if you assume the 2 local government-appointed members are always allied with labor. But they are shareholder seats - the local government appoints them because it is a shareholder in the company. So you can’t quite say that labor controls the board. Labor has exactly half the seats. I’m not assuming the first thing and I didn’t say the second thing. I said that control of the board belongs to representatives of either labor or the government. I can say that. Becuase it’s true. And I’m not assuming that they’re always “allied with labor.” All I said was that both labor and government have an interest in keeping jobs in Germany (and therefore in making it expensive to operate elsewhere). Do I think it possible when the two factions will align when they have interests in common? Yes. > [@](#): > > And your theory assumes that VW is competing with itself. I don’t know how they work, but often, foreign automakers with North American plants ship to North American markets only, and Europe’s customers get cars from plants there (which is one reason they have North American plants - to save on shipping). There would be no advantage to making U.S.-made cars more expensive - it would only hurt them when competing against other manufacturers. That, however, is an assumption that I am making. I am assuming that VW might be able to “ship jobs overseas” to the expense of “jobs at home.” I don’t know if that’s right. I could be convinced that that is a flaw in my reasoning (although it ends up being a little bit more complicated than “shipping” cars overseas or not or competing in any particular market, becuase the question would be where they would expand). > [@](#): > > And if you think VW’s board actually does want its own plant in the U.S. to fail, why not just shut it down? I don’t think that I think they want it to fail. I don’t think that being unionized will guarantee a company or factory to fail. I’m not sure why you do. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2014, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-nice-vw-plant-you-have-there-would-be-a-shame-if-something-happened-to-it/681073/174 "2014-02-21T18:59:24Z")
> [@Steely\_Dan\_Fan](#): > > Especially since all the deaths at Haymarket were due solely to the police? > > It’s like Melchior went out of hir way to get it exactly backwards. anarchists and socialists caused all the trouble ---
**Author:** ![Steely\_Dan\_Fan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de053/32.png) [@Steely\_Dan\_Fan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steely_Dan_Fan)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2014, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-nice-vw-plant-you-have-there-would-be-a-shame-if-something-happened-to-it/681073/175 "2014-02-21T19:00:42Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > anarchists and socialists caused all the trouble Reality suggests otherwise. Paul Avrich’s book is a good start. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2014, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-nice-vw-plant-you-have-there-would-be-a-shame-if-something-happened-to-it/681073/176 "2014-02-21T19:44:53Z")
> [@Steely\_Dan\_Fan](#): > > Especially since all the deaths at Haymarket were due solely to the police? There’s also [The Battle of Blair Mountain](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain), where strong-arm tactics by agents of the mine owners resulted in armed resistance. Agents of the mine owners dropped gas and explosive bombs on the miners from private aircraft, and a leader of the strikers and a good friend of his were assassinated by mine agents on the courthouse steps. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2014, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-nice-vw-plant-you-have-there-would-be-a-shame-if-something-happened-to-it/681073/177 "2014-02-21T19:51:09Z")
> [@Falchion](#): > > Don’t get your panties in a bunch. (Actually your link does a good job of explaining it, but [this one](http://www.volkswagenag.com/content/vwcorp/content/en/investor_relations/corporate_governance/supervisory_board.html)is more informative.). > > The Supervisory Board has 20 members. Half of those members (that’s 10) are employee representatives (that’s the “German Labor Union” coponent I reference). > > The other half is “shareholder representatives.” But, 2 of those members are appointed by the government of Lower Saxony (that’s the “local German government” part). > > So, when I say “the Volkswagen board is controlled by representatives of either the German labor unions or the local German government.” I mean that 12 seats on a 20 person board constitute a majority (also “control”). > > The notion that both of those groups have an incentive to keep jobs in Germany is my opinion, but you’re going to be hard pressed to convince me that it “isn’t true, or accurate, or based on any kind of reality.” So what you meant was that “the Volkswagen board is controlled by representatives of BOTH the German labor unions AND the local German government”. Okay, so your poor choice of words seems to have set back your argument a bit, at least in making your thoughts clearly understood. Regardless, it’s all fantasy from your own head and not supported by reality. Lemme tell you a little about German labor law: In 1976, significant revisions were made to Germany’s Mitbestimmungsgesetz ( Co-Determination Act). Board default size was increased from 11 to 20 members. German law limits the role of workers’ reps to slightly less than half the board (in VW’s case its 10 of 20 seats), so the notion that they control anything is ridiculous, unless you have some evidence to present showing otherwise. And before you start formulating other ridiculous notions, know that management is ALWAYS in control of the company: German law specifically gives the right to cast a tie-breaking vote to the Chairman of the Supervisory Board, and by law the Chairman must be a shareholder representative. So even tho half the board is worker reps, they have slightly less than half the votes available. Also, your attempt to include government reps with the workers is false; they are shareholder reps. If they are sympathetic to some of the things that workers want, well, that’s what Boards and Committees are all about: negotiating for consensus on projects, policies and purposes. Germany is not the United States, and to assume that their workplace culture, laws and practices are similar to ours is foolish; they do not have the same mutually antagonistic attitudes between workers and management that our culture has. Your scenario posits American attitudes and values without showing any evidence that they come into play at all. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2014, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-nice-vw-plant-you-have-there-would-be-a-shame-if-something-happened-to-it/681073/178 "2014-02-21T19:58:49Z")
> [@Falchion](#): > > I’m not assuming the first thing and I didn’t say the second thing. I said that control of the board belongs to representatives of either labor or the government. I can say that. Becuase it’s true. No, it’s not true. And you keep mis-stating your own argument. There is simply no way for 10 workers reps to control the Board; they don’t have enough votes, since the Chairman gets to cast a deciding vote in the case of a tie. And I’d be really curious to see your reasoning for how 2 shareholder representing the government of Lower Saxony could possibly control the Board with only their two votes. However, as I noted in my previous post, what you must mean, in order for your assertion even begin to make sense, is that the workers AND the government shareholder reps, working together, control the Board. The burden is on you to support your assertion, or you can simply admit that you’re doing the same as friend **Melchior** : making shit up. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2014, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-nice-vw-plant-you-have-there-would-be-a-shame-if-something-happened-to-it/681073/179 "2014-02-21T20:07:49Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > There’s also [The Battle of Blair Mountain](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain), where strong-arm tactics by agents of the mine owners resulted in armed resistance. Agents of the mine owners dropped gas and explosive bombs on the miners from private aircraft, and a leader of the strikers and a good friend of his were assassinated by mine agents on the courthouse steps. Don’t forget about the [Ford Hunger March](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Hunger_March): > [@](#): > > March 7 was a bitterly cold day in Detroit, and a crowd estimated at between 3,000 and 5,000 gathered near the Dearborn city limits, about a mile from the Ford plant. The Detroit Times called it “one of the coldest days of the winter, with a frigid gale whooping out of the northwest”. Marchers carried banners reading "Give Us Work, “We Want Bread Not Crumbs”, and “Tax the Rich and Feed the Poor”. Communist leader Albert Goetz gave a speech, asking that the marchers avoid violence. The march proceeded peacefully along the streets of Detroit until it reached the Dearborn city limits. There, the Dearborn police attempted to stop the march by firing tear gas into the crowd, and began hitting marchers with clubs. One officer fired a gun at the marchers. The crowd scattered into a field covered with stones, and then began throwing stones at the police. The angry marchers regrouped and advanced nearly a mile toward the plant. There, two fire engines began spraying cold water onto the marchers from an overpass. The police were joined by Ford security guards, and began shooting into the crowd. Joe York, Coleman Leny and Joe DeBlasio were killed, and at least 22 others were wounded by gunfire. > > The leaders decided to call off the march at that point, and began an orderly retreat. Harry Bennett, head of Ford security, drove up in a car, opened a window, and fired a pistol into the crowd. Immediately, the car was pelted with rocks, and Bennett was injured. He then got out of the car, and continued firing at the retreating marchers. Dearborn police and Ford security men then opened fire on the retreating marchers with machine guns. Joe Bussell, 16 years old, was killed, and dozens more were wounded. Bennett was hospitalized. Or the [Battle of the Overpass](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Overpass) > [@](#): > > At approximately 2 p.m., several of the leading UAW union organizers, including Walter Reuther and Richard Frankensteen, were asked by a Detroit News photographer, James E. (Scotty) Kilpatrick, to pose for a picture on the overpass, with the Ford sign in the background. While they were posing, men from Ford’s Service Department, an internal security force under the direction of Harry Bennett, came from behind and began to beat them.[1] The number of attackers is disputed, but may have been as many as forty.[2] > Beatings > Frankensteen had his jacket pulled over his head and was kicked and punched. Reuther described some of the treatment he received: "Seven times they raised me off the concrete and slammed me down on it. They pinned my arms . . . and I was punched and kicked and dragged by my feet to the stairway, thrown down the first flight of steps, picked up, slammed down on the platform and kicked down the second flight. On the ground they beat and kicked me some more. . . " One union organizer, Richard Merriweather, suffered a broken back as the result of the beating he received.[1] > The security group then beat some of the beret-wearing women arriving to pass out leaflets, along with some reporters and photographers, while Dearborn police at the scene largely ignored the violence. The Dearborn police stood by and said the Ford men were protecting their property. There is no equivalence in the violence perpetrated by employers, using the muscle of the state, in the violence that unionists committed. If you wish to match stories of violence, which I’ve done previously in union threads on this board, you will quickly find yourself buried under the corpses of not just workers, but also their wives and children, murdered by employers. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2014, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-nice-vw-plant-you-have-there-would-be-a-shame-if-something-happened-to-it/681073/180 "2014-02-21T20:13:30Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > There’s also [The Battle of Blair Mountain](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain), where strong-arm tactics by agents of the mine owners resulted in armed resistance. Agents of the mine owners dropped gas and explosive bombs on the miners from private aircraft, and a leader of the strikers and a good friend of his were assassinated by mine agents on the courthouse steps. And dozens of other similar incidents where management violently attacked workers. But some people are willfully blind. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-nice-vw-plant-you-have-there-would-be-a-shame-if-something-happened-to-it/681073.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-nice-vw-plant-you-have-there-would-be-a-shame-if-something-happened-to-it/681073.md?page=10)