# That's a shitty thing for MoveOn.org to do **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 2, 2004, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-shitty-thing-for-moveon-org-to-do/272496 "2004-11-02T04:28:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-shitty-thing-for-moveon-org-to-do/272496/41 "2004-11-02T13:50:53Z")
I saw some [Moveon.org](http://Moveon.org) folks hanging signs for Kerry, without also hanging an equal amount of signs for Bush! What an outrage! Seriously, I have no problem with anybody making an effort to help supporters of their cause and not help non-supporters (as long as there’s no deception involved). How bizarre to expect differently. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-shitty-thing-for-moveon-org-to-do/272496/42 "2004-11-02T14:15:45Z")
I don’t have to drive my Republican neighbor to the polls. I don’t have to slash his tires either. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-shitty-thing-for-moveon-org-to-do/272496/43 "2004-11-02T14:52:33Z")
MoveOn PAC volunteer caller here. This org is most explicitly _not_ a nonpartisan get out the vote organization. We don’t pretend otherwise. “Voting for Kerry? That’s great! I’m **AHunter3** and I’m with MoveOn PAC and we’re working to defeat George Bush and elect John Kerry. Do you know where your polling place is? Do you need a ride? Child care to free you up so you can vote? You’re like to boil me in oil for being the 153rd caller to bug you about voting in the election this week? I completely understand. You will vote though, rain or shine? Very good, thank you for your time.” “Voting for Bush? OK, thank you for your time. Who am I calling with? I’m with MoveOn PAC and we’re trying to get Kerry elected. Yes ma’am, I promise to take you off the calling list, doing it right now.” I did have some respondents indicate that they would be Bush voters but who asked me if I could tell them where their polling place was, and I looked it up for them. But our purpose was to roll out the vote for Kerry. Have you seen any of MoveOn’s ads? We make AirAmerica Radio look neutral! ---
**Author:** ![SkeptiJess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@SkeptiJess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkeptiJess)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-shitty-thing-for-moveon-org-to-do/272496/44 "2004-11-02T15:09:08Z")
> [@Early Out](#): > > And then taking away his car, and asking him how he plans to pay for his own college education, right? 😃 Well, he’s joining the Navy in 16 days, so his college education is taken care of. And I don’t want his crummy old car – I just got a new car myself after several months of sharing his T-bird with him… I might consider slashing his tires, though. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Ponder\_Stibbons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponder_stibbons/32/343_2.png) [@Ponder\_Stibbons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponder_Stibbons)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-shitty-thing-for-moveon-org-to-do/272496/45 "2004-11-02T15:11:09Z")
In a free society one is free to encourage others to do as you wish, as long as such encouragement does not involve the use of force and you back off when someone tells you they do not want to be bothered. This is the very essence of freedom. There are a great many non-partisan get-out-the-vote organizations. People participate in these organizations because they feel it is important to get out the vote – _any vote_ – in order to foster a democratic society. There are also a great many partisan get-out-the-vote organizations who will go to great lengths to help those who want to vote with them to the polls. There is nothing wrong with any of this, and indeed is the hallmark of a free and democratic society. If you don’t like the fact that Move On is getting out the vote for Kerry, then you can (1) go cry to your momma that the world ain’t fair, or (2) go volunteer for an opposing organization. Personally, I would like to encourage all of you who aren’t voting for Badnarik to just stay home and not vote at all. Thank you. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-shitty-thing-for-moveon-org-to-do/272496/46 "2004-11-02T15:27:38Z")
As Moveon is a partisan organization, they are welcome to transport anyone they wish to the polls, for what ever goal they want. If it were the League of Women Voters doing this sort of thing, then I would have a serious beef, as they are most certainly non-partisan. Ans for what it’s worth, if my Bush supporting neighbor asked me for a ride to the polls, I would grant it. I believe in order for a democracy to work, it must have input from all the people… no matter how misguided. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-shitty-thing-for-moveon-org-to-do/272496/47 "2004-11-02T15:47:23Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > And if **Mhendo** and **Otto** consider me stupid for revering the principle of popular participation in the selection of their government over partisan victory, then I wear that label with honor. Will that label fit alongside the sackcloth and ashes, you poor martyr? Grow up. I made it pretty clear that i agree with your idea that getting out the vote, as a general non-partisan democratic ideal, is a good thing. But i think it’s pretty stupid to expect avowedly partisan political entities to use up their limited resources on actively helping the opposing side. MoveOn has no obligation at all to physically drive a Republican voter to the polls, and the Republicans have no obligation to provide transport to Democratic voters. Also, if democracy is suffering in the United States due to lack of popular participation, the cause is not a lack of transport. Voter turnout is typically around 50% nationwide, suggesting a far greater malaise than could possibly be fixed by offering rides to a few car-deprived persons. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-shitty-thing-for-moveon-org-to-do/272496/48 "2004-11-02T15:49:03Z")
> [@Ponder Stibbons](#): > > Personally, I would like to encourage all of you who aren’t voting for Badnarik to just stay home and not vote at all. Thank you. 😉 That would at least have the advantage of giving us an early result. The total number of libertarian votes could be counted within three minutes of the polls closing. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-shitty-thing-for-moveon-org-to-do/272496/49 "2004-11-02T16:05:10Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Will that label fit alongside the sackcloth and ashes, you poor martyr? Grow up. Bite me. > [@](#): > > I made it pretty clear that i agree with your idea that getting out the vote, as a general non-partisan democratic ideal, is a good thing. No, you didn’t, but good on you for saying so now. > [@](#): > > But i think it’s pretty stupid to expect avowedly partisan political entities to use up their limited resources on actively helping the opposing side. MoveOn has no obligation at all to physically drive a Republican voter to the polls, and the Republicans have no obligation to provide transport to Democratic voters. I was under the impression that Move-On was more about turnout than the results, but apparently I was mistaken. > [@](#): > > Also, if democracy is suffering in the United States due to lack of popular participation, the cause is not a lack of transport. Voter turnout is typically around 50% nationwide, suggesting a far greater malaise than could possibly be fixed by offering rides to a few car-deprived persons. Good thing nobody is arguing that point. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-shitty-thing-for-moveon-org-to-do/272496/50 "2004-11-02T16:09:49Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > [hijack] > this morning when I voted, I was asked for ID, the woman looked up my name, entered a sequential number next to it that she got from her partner, and then announced in a loud voice, “[Bricker’s Full Name] is ready to vote.” None of that where I voted at 8:30. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-shitty-thing-for-moveon-org-to-do/272496/51 "2004-11-02T16:23:06Z")
They didn’t say “Gobear is ready to vote” either at my polling place. I showed my ID and voting card, the woman said my name quietly to the man next to her, who marked it off, then handed me my blue voter permit card. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-shitty-thing-for-moveon-org-to-do/272496/52 "2004-11-02T16:23:13Z")
No announcement when I voted either. The little old election lady just found my name in the book and then asked me to sign next to my name. I was kind of disappointed that no one tried to fuck with my right to vote. I was all set to call Michael Moore. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-shitty-thing-for-moveon-org-to-do/272496/53 "2004-11-02T16:25:39Z")
…oh…and I voted for Kerry in case anyone was wondering. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-shitty-thing-for-moveon-org-to-do/272496/54 "2004-11-02T16:26:49Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > …oh…and I voted for Kerry in case anyone was wondering. Huh. I had you pegged for Peroutka. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-shitty-thing-for-moveon-org-to-do/272496/55 "2004-11-02T16:34:26Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > No, you didn’t, but good on you for saying so now. You’re a liar. Look at post #9 of this thread, in which i said: > [@mhendo](#): > > I guess it depends on whether your aim is to promote a generalized notion of democracy by getting people to participate in the political process, or whether you’re just stumping for a particular candidate. I don’t think that either is necessarily superior. **Plain old encouragement to vote is good** , and campaigning for a particular candidate is perfectly legitimate. > > What i find somewhat disingenuous is when a particular group claims to be conducting a “Get out the vote” campaign, when what they are actually doing is nothing more than canvassing for a particular candidate or party. If you’re a partisan campaigner, at least have the integrity to say so. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-shitty-thing-for-moveon-org-to-do/272496/56 "2004-11-02T16:41:31Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > You’re a liar. > > Look at post #9 of this thread, in which i said: My bad, I missed one clause in a paragraph. You indeed did say so. And you can shove your combative attitude up your ass. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-shitty-thing-for-moveon-org-to-do/272496/57 "2004-11-02T16:50:29Z")
gobear: After today, I’m going to NEED that wine. I hope I win. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-shitty-thing-for-moveon-org-to-do/272496/58 "2004-11-02T17:09:25Z")
I’m curious **gobear** , did you wonder why the OP compared MoveOn to Republican tactics if MoveOn was supposed to be a neutral party? Did the OP not have the familiar wiff of “Ooh, we caught another Dem hypocrisy!”. I can see why people might jump to the conclusion that you just wanted to use this oppurtunity to trot out your Dudley Doright schtick. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-shitty-thing-for-moveon-org-to-do/272496/59 "2004-11-02T17:17:56Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I’m curious **gobear** , did you wonder why the OP compared MoveOn to Republican tactics if MoveOn was supposed to be a neutral party? Did the OP not have the familiar wiff of “Ooh, we caught another Dem hypocrisy!”. I can see why people might jump to the conclusion that you just wanted to use this oppurtunity to trot out your Dudley Doright schtick. “Dudley Doright schtick?” Are you high? Like everybody else, I say what I think. If you don’t like it, call someone who cares. Nobody here thinks of me as “right” in any sense. Heck, that’s what Dopers say in thread after thread, “that boy ain’t right.” Are you saying that I’m trying to be popular? Please. I have no friends here and am pretty roundly disliked. I don’t fool myself about the world or my place in it. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-shitty-thing-for-moveon-org-to-do/272496/60 "2004-11-02T17:24:03Z")
Yoiks, touched a nerve. I may be high but I’m not implying anything other than what I wrote. The OP seemed to position MoveOn as a partisan group (which I thought was general knowledge) yet you, for some reason, assumed they weren’t. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-shitty-thing-for-moveon-org-to-do/272496.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-shitty-thing-for-moveon-org-to-do/272496.md?page=4)