# That's a shitty thing for MoveOn.org to do **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 2, 2004, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-shitty-thing-for-moveon-org-to-do/272496 "2004-11-02T04:28:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-shitty-thing-for-moveon-org-to-do/272496/61 "2004-11-02T17:27:58Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > And if **Mhendo** and **Otto** consider me stupid for revering the principle of popular participation in the selection of their government over partisan victory, then I wear that label with honor. Mel Gibson’s on line 1 for you, wanting to know if you’re available for _The Passion II_. I don’t consider _you_ stupid at all. I consider your _statement_ that I am obligated to assist someone with whom I am in vehement disagreement act in opposition to my own best interest to be stupid. If my hypothetical Bushista neighbor asked for a ride to the poll, I would very likely take her. But I would be under no ethical obligation to do so, your insane troll logic notwithstanding. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-shitty-thing-for-moveon-org-to-do/272496/62 "2004-11-02T17:30:10Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > Mel Gibson’s on line 1 for you, wanting to know if you’re available for _The Passion II_. > > I don’t consider _you_ stupid at all. I consider your _statement_ that I am obligated to assist someone with whom I am in vehement disagreement act in opposition to my own best interest to be stupid. If my hypothetical Bushista neighbor asked for a ride to the poll, I would very likely take her. But I would be under no ethical obligation to do so, your insane troll logic notwithstanding. No, but if you had afvertised youself as a non-partisan car pool, then refused to take Bush voters, there would, to me, be an ethical problem. Anbd “troll logic”? Calling me a troll? ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-shitty-thing-for-moveon-org-to-do/272496/63 "2004-11-02T17:32:28Z")
And yes, I realize now that I was **mistaken** in thinking Move-On was not affliliated with the Democratic party, so you don’t need to point that out. ---
**Author:** ![Brainiac4](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brainiac4/32/3534_2.png) [@Brainiac4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brainiac4)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-shitty-thing-for-moveon-org-to-do/272496/64 "2004-11-02T17:39:17Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > And yes, I realize now that I was **mistaken** in thinking Move-On was not affliliated with the Democratic party, so you don’t need to point that out. Actually, you were quite correct. As a 527, it’s not affiliated with any candidate or party. It shares goals with them, but is not affiliated in any way. Although I do find it kind of remarkable that anyone is still unaware of MoveOn’s partisanship, since they have been the whipping boy for the Republican attack on 527 organizations for a couple of months, and are usually mentioned in the same breath as the Swift Boat Liars in news reports talking about the effect of 527s on the election. I’m not questioning your veracity, **gobear**. I’m just surprised that you missed the coverage. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-shitty-thing-for-moveon-org-to-do/272496/65 "2004-11-02T17:41:22Z")
CNN just reported on its crawler that some MoveOn people were arrested for electioneering. I don’t know where it happened. I glanced down too late to see the location. ---
**Author:** ![chula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a4c791/32.png) [@chula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chula)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-shitty-thing-for-moveon-org-to-do/272496/66 "2004-11-02T17:41:44Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > And yes, I realize now that I was **mistaken** in thinking Move-On was not affliliated with the Democratic party, so you don’t need to point that out. MoveOn is _not_ affiliated with the Democratic Party. They are an independent group whose current mission is to get Bush out of office. (Their original mission was to end the investigation of the Clinton-Lewinsky scandal, hence the name.) To those of you who think that MoveOn GOTV drive should be bipartisan, who do you expect to pay for that? People donate to MoveOn because they want to get Bush out of office, not because they want to improve American democracy in some general way. I would be pissed if the money I donated was being spent helping Republicans vote. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-shitty-thing-for-moveon-org-to-do/272496/67 "2004-11-02T17:44:01Z")
> [@Brainiac4](#): > > I’m not questioning your veracity, **gobear**. I’m just surprised that you missed the coverage. I knew they were anti-Bush, but I was under the mistaken impression they were also concerned with voter turnout, not merely Democrat voter turn-out. I was wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-shitty-thing-for-moveon-org-to-do/272496/68 "2004-11-02T17:47:16Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > CNN just reported on its crawler that some MoveOn people were arrested for electioneering. I don’t know where it happened. I glanced down too late to see the location. Somewhere in New Hampshire was all I could find. ---
**Author:** ![Brainiac4](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brainiac4/32/3534_2.png) [@Brainiac4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brainiac4)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-shitty-thing-for-moveon-org-to-do/272496/69 "2004-11-02T17:49:28Z")
**gobear** : Understandably so. And commendably so – in calling people today for MoveOn, I’m not asking who they plan to vote for, I’m just reminding them that it’s election day and they should vote. I hope they vote for Kerry, but I’m not trying to convince anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-shitty-thing-for-moveon-org-to-do/272496/70 "2004-11-02T17:50:10Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > Anbd “troll logic”? Calling me a troll? It’s a Buffy quote. Dumbass. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-shitty-thing-for-moveon-org-to-do/272496/71 "2004-11-02T18:40:58Z")
> [@Brainiac4](#): > > Understandably so. And commendably so – in calling people today for MoveOn, I’m not asking who they plan to vote for, I’m just reminding them that it’s election day and they should vote. > > I hope they vote for Kerry, but I’m not trying to convince anyone. Just out of interest: whose phone numbers are you actually calling? Because i know someone who’s making calls for MoveOn, and the only people she is calling are Democratic voters who have made a previous commitment to be at a particular polling place at a particular time. Now, she is simply calling to remind them to vote, and not to encourage them to vote for a particular party, but if the only people you call are people who have previously expressed sympathy with your own party, the distinction doesn’t seem to be especially pertinent. I’m not saying that just calling people who have identified themselves as Democrats is wrong. But, if the only people you’re calling are Democrats, then it’s somewhat disingenuous to say that you’re “just reminding them it’s election day,” as if there were no partisan agenda. > [@chula](#): > > MoveOn is not affiliated with the Democratic Party. They are an independent group whose current mission is to get Bush out of office. Well, they may not be officially affiliated with the Democratic Party, but the connection is close enough for a reasonable person to conlcude that they are an effective wing of the Democrats, at least for the purpose of this election. And i say this as someone who generally supports MoveOn, and who is on their email list. Look at the titles of some of the emails i’ve received from them recently: \*\* Kerry’s Fighting Back: Powerful Speech on Iraq Students: Demand Answers from Bush on Iraq Stop Tom Delay: The Right Wing’s Hammer John McCain: Tell Bush to Condemn Kerry Slander Ad \*\* And here’s the opening lines of an email i got back in August: > [@MoveOn](#): > > Last week, MoveOn PAC members gave over $2.1 million to launch Leave No Voter Behind: MoveOn PAC’s Neighbor-to-Neighbor Victory Drive to turn out 440,000 additional votes for Kerry from 10,000 targeted neighborhoods. While they may have no official affiliation with the Democratic Party—as mandated by their 527 status—one could easily be forgiven for missing the distinction. As i said, i don’t have much trouble with this, but it’s a bit silly for MoveOn people to claim to be anything but Democratic Party campaigners. To be honest, i’ve actually lost some of my enthusiasm for MoveOn over the past couple of years, as their noble emphasis on defeating Bush has, unfortunately, led them to ignore or downplay some of the problems and bad policies within the Democratic Party, and in John Kerry’s Presidential campaign. ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-shitty-thing-for-moveon-org-to-do/272496/72 "2004-11-02T18:58:15Z")
> [@Brainiac4](#): > > You certainly do have an obligation to give her a ride. Bright and early Wednesday morning, you get into that car and take her down to the polling place. This made me almost wet my pants. So did [this.](http://www.theonion.com/news/index.php?issue=4043&n=1) ---
**Author:** ![Balle\_M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/13edae/32.png) [@Balle\_M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balle_M)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-shitty-thing-for-moveon-org-to-do/272496/73 "2004-11-02T19:02:20Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Why? Does Moveon have an obligation to drive Republicans to the polls? Back when I was in College Republicans (sometime between the invention of fire and the wheel) we provided rides to the polls. We didn’t ask party affiliation or discuss the election - we just gave rides. Just to be fair and balanced, the evil minions of the Young Democrats were non-parisan in their ride service, too. ---
**Author:** ![Brainiac4](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brainiac4/32/3534_2.png) [@Brainiac4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brainiac4)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-shitty-thing-for-moveon-org-to-do/272496/74 "2004-11-02T19:05:08Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Just out of interest: whose phone numbers are you actually calling? > > Because i know someone who’s making calls for MoveOn, and the only people she is calling are Democratic voters who have made a previous commitment to be at a particular polling place at a particular time. > > Now, she is simply calling to remind them to vote, and not to encourage them to vote for a particular party, but if the only people you call are people who have previously expressed sympathy with your own party, the distinction doesn’t seem to be especially pertinent. > > I’m not saying that just calling people who have identified themselves as Democrats is wrong. But, if the only people you’re calling are Democrats, then it’s somewhat disingenuous to say that you’re “just reminding them it’s election day,” as if there were no partisan agenda. I’m calling the numbers on a list from MoveOn. I already called the known Kerry supporters and reminded them to get out and vote. Now I’m on the list of “infrequent voters” – people who are registered but have not voted in the past couple of presidential elections. In canvassing, the script has you start with asking who they’re going to vote for, then encouraging the Kerry supporters and offering assistance. I’m skipping that part. I don’t know who they’re voting for. I am really, honestly, just hoping they’re voting for Kerry. I’m not qualifying them before I encourage them to vote, so I am being nonpartisan. From the results I’ve seen thus fare from canvassing, my area is somewhat more likely to turn up Kerry supporters than Bush in the infrequent voters, but there’s no guarantee. I could be reminding some guy with a huge-ass W sign in his lawn to vote, and I’m okay with that. ---
**Author:** ![Brainiac4](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brainiac4/32/3534_2.png) [@Brainiac4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brainiac4)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-shitty-thing-for-moveon-org-to-do/272496/75 "2004-11-02T19:10:36Z")
> [@Pork Rind](#): > > This made me almost wet my pants. So did [this.](http://www.theonion.com/news/index.php?issue=4043&n=1) Ah, I was hoping that got noticed. And yes, I was inspired by the Onion. Genius work, as usual. > [@The Onion](#): > > “Strange as it is to say it, we’re non-partisan,” Monreal said. “We don’t care if the minority voter is part of the vast majority of non-whites that traditionally votes Democrat. What’s important to us is that we get them to the polls bright and early on the third day of November, so that they feel like they’ve participated in this year’s election.” > > Monreal said Republican volunteers will be available to drive minorities to polling places on Nov. 3. > > “We’ll even stay at home with them the day before, to help them prepare for the act of voting,” Monreal said. “We’ll engage in concentrated one-on-one tutoring the entire day, to make sure these voters focus on the important act of voting, rather than going outside, reading newspapers, or watching television.” ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-shitty-thing-for-moveon-org-to-do/272496/76 "2004-11-02T19:14:43Z")
> [@chula](#): > > MoveOn does not pretend to be a non-partisan group. They are actively campaigning for Kerry and make no secret of it. When a partisan group says they are “getting out the vote” they mean “getting out the vote on behalf of our candidate.” There’s no reason to assume it means “getting out the vote regardless of the voter’s party affiliation.” That’s the government’s job. If MoveOn were going to be neutral, they’d qualify for tax-exempt status, for one thing. When I campaigned for the NDP this year, I spent the day of the election getting the vote out. What that meant was calling everyone I knew to be an NDP supporter and finding out if they had voted, and arranging lifts to the polling place nand answering questions as needed. I don’t see why it would surprise anyone for the New Democratic Riding Association to try to get as many New Democrats as possible to vote. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-shitty-thing-for-moveon-org-to-do/272496/77 "2004-11-02T19:19:32Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > I have no friends here and am pretty roundly disliked. You know perfectly well that just because we frequently disagree doesn’t mean I don’t love you like a brother, my dear. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-shitty-thing-for-moveon-org-to-do/272496/78 "2004-11-02T22:30:33Z")
Either Fox or CNN or both (they’re starting to blur together to me) reported that 30 cars belonging to Republicans who were going to carpool voters had their tires slashed in Milwaukee. I don’t know whether MoveOn did it, but I wouldn’t be surprised. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-shitty-thing-for-moveon-org-to-do/272496/79 "2004-11-02T22:32:11Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > You know perfectly well that just because we frequently disagree doesn’t mean I don’t love you like a brother, my dear. I even like Gobear. Always have. He used to pretty much ignore me, even though I always posted very supportive messages. (You can check the history.) Lately, though, it’s like we’re worst enemies, and I have no idea why or how it began. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-shitty-thing-for-moveon-org-to-do/272496/80 "2004-11-02T23:02:08Z")
> [@Pork Rind](#): > > This made me almost wet my pants. So did [this.](http://www.theonion.com/news/index.php?issue=4043&n=1) Unfortunately, that has a basis in reality. > [@](#): > > [Reuters](http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackageArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=613416§ion=news) > VOTE ON NOVEMBER 3? > > The report provided copies of various flyers aimed suppressing the vote, including one from Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. > > “Due to the immense voter turnout that is expected on Tuesday, November 2, the state of Pennsylvania has requested an extended voting period,” read the official-looking flyer, advising Republicans to vote on Tuesday, Democrats a day later – after polls were closed. > > A similar flyer distributed in Jefferson County, Alabama simply gave out the wrong date for voting: “Attention: Jefferson County!!! See You At The Poles November 4, 2004.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-shitty-thing-for-moveon-org-to-do/272496.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-a-shitty-thing-for-moveon-org-to-do/272496.md?page=5)