# That's just not fair CK Haven. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 6, 2005, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-just-not-fair-ck-haven/315871 "2005-08-06T14:03:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-just-not-fair-ck-haven/315871/381 "2005-08-17T16:38:24Z")
But EddyTeddyFreddy is the one that should come down from the cross? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-just-not-fair-ck-haven/315871/382 "2005-08-17T16:42:39Z")
Yeah, I’ve had it with up there. Thanks to Spiritus, I realize it’s not a tree I need to climb. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-just-not-fair-ck-haven/315871/383 "2005-08-17T17:41:17Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > They will do that because they are honorable people who apply their judgments equitably and without regard to person. That’s precisely why we won’t do it. You’ll invent conspiracies between us because you’re delusional, paranoid, and megalomaniacal. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-just-not-fair-ck-haven/315871/384 "2005-08-17T17:54:40Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Yeah, I’ve had it with up there. Thanks to Spiritus, I realize it’s not a tree I need to climb. Nothing like watching two pompous blowhards engage in mutual masturbation. Well, not really. I could think of a few thousand other things I’d rather watch. Here’s some more nails fer ya! Later, hatas. Though I must admit I forgot the secret handshake. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-just-not-fair-ck-haven/315871/385 "2005-08-17T17:58:06Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Better watch out. Biggirl will be in here any minute to chastise you for hijacking her thread. Hoards of ten or more will descend and advise you that you should stop posting, that your quips aren’t funny enough, that the mods should ban you. They will gather together off-board and plan your demise. They will do that because they are honorable people who apply their judgments equitably and without regard to person. Hmmm, seems they only do that to you though, Lib? I wonder why? More importantly, you should. Seriously, I don’t wish to see you banned, nor do I wish to see you stop posting. But in my opinion a lot of the advice offered is worth consideration. Where is this hoard of which you speak? I have only noticed mostly long time Dopers give you their opinion. You may not like it but for god sake please stop with the persecution complex. It was old a long time before now. If as you claim it consists of only a few members, then ignore them. If on the other hand they represent a large number of Dopers then listen to them and either change your style or not. But quit complaining that everybody hates you. We don’t. But some people are annoyed. (Some justifiably so, others not). There thats my opinion, and it is worth exactly what you paid for it… (yes I have been around long enough to know that your response to this depends entirely on where we are in the Libcycle© ) ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-just-not-fair-ck-haven/315871/386 "2005-08-17T17:58:53Z")
PS- **Billdo** , don’t dispair. Remember, you can always _link back_. 😉 Good effort all the same. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-just-not-fair-ck-haven/315871/387 "2005-08-17T17:58:55Z")
> [@JohnBckWLD](#): > > {Don’t bother} The red wine is lousy and believe it or not, it’s impossible to butter the unleavened bread without it cracking into a dozen shards. Hey, no problem! I’ve got this basket of loaves that keeps refilling itself – fresh baguettes for all! And there’s this other basket, got lots of fish – what’s your preference? We got your trout, your mackerel, your swordfish, your herring, even some hot tuna. Sorry, no eel. But there’s a special on big-mouth bass. You have to wash it down with Kool-Aid, though. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Billdo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/billdo/32/315_2.png) [@Billdo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billdo)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-just-not-fair-ck-haven/315871/388 "2005-08-17T18:01:34Z")
**Liberal** , perhaps you’ve heard the old saying: “If four people tell you you’re drunk, it’s time to lie down.” I don’t keep track of these things. I don’t have any cohorts. This all is no big issue with me. But . . . I’ve been here long enough and read the boards frequently enough to have gotten the clear impression that you derail threads with attention-getting posts about tangentially related matters with a frequency and regularity that no other poster shares. Many people have commented and complained about your tendency to hijack threads (and if the hijacks were funny, people would be laughing, not bitching). Nobody has raised a stronger defense than that you’re technically not transgressing any rules or that you’re hijacks aren’t really too annoying. I don’t recall anyone saying your frequent derailing of threads is a positive contribution to the board, though many have argued vigerously that they detract from it. I’m happy to listen to a counter-argument as to why your hijacks add value to the board, but I haven’t seen one yet. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-just-not-fair-ck-haven/315871/389 "2005-08-17T18:10:47Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > Hey, no problem! I’ve got this basket of loaves that keeps refilling itself – fresh baguettes for all! And there’s this other basket, got lots of fish – what’s your preference? We got your trout, your mackerel, your swordfish, your herring, even some hot tuna. Sorry, no eel. But there’s a special on big-mouth bass. > > You have to wash it down with Kool-Aid, though. :eek: I hear the grape is especially good this year. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-just-not-fair-ck-haven/315871/390 "2005-08-17T19:31:35Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > Where is this hoard of which you speak? It was sarcasm, as you know because you wrote… > [@](#): > > If as you claim it consists of only a few members, then ignore them. If it’s wrong to speak of hoards and wrong to speak of a few, then one can only assume it is wrong to speak. The problem I’ve always encountered with entertaining some of the advice given is that what pleases one man might not please another. Take A’s advice, and piss off B. Take B’s advice, and piss off A. And quite often, C will be pissed off just to be pissed off. I think Spiritus is right. I haven’t done anything wrong. Now that I don’t feel persecuted, at least some of you ought to be pleased. The others, I guess, will just have to remain pissed. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-just-not-fair-ck-haven/315871/391 "2005-08-17T19:34:39Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Hoards > [@askeptic](#): > > hoard Aaargh! [official spelling nazi hat on] horde, hordes Thank You. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-just-not-fair-ck-haven/315871/392 "2005-08-17T19:39:54Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > Aaargh! > > [official spelling nazi hat on] > horde, hordes > > Thank You. HOW DARE YOU PURSIQUTE ME! ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-just-not-fair-ck-haven/315871/393 "2005-08-17T19:45:52Z")
> [@Billdo](#): > > **Liberal** , perhaps you’ve heard the old saying: “If four people tell you you’re drunk, it’s time to lie down.” Sure. If there are five people in the room, I suppose. But when the host doesn’t say you’re drunk, and five thousand other people in the room don’t say you’re drunk, it’s time to consider whether you’re placing too much emphasis on observing me. It’s a party. We all drink. > [@](#): > > I don’t keep track of these things. I don’t have any cohorts. This all is no big issue with me. Nor with me anymore. > [@](#): > > But . . . I’ve been here long enough and read the boards frequently enough to have gotten the clear impression that you derail threads with attention-getting posts about tangentially related matters with a frequency and regularity that no other poster shares. Really? Is it your observation that the left has been silent, the right has kept quiet, and that only the resident liberal has had the audacity to opine? The atheists have said nothing, the fundamentalists have been still, but only the resident renegade Christian has expressed his beliefs? And if you complain that my remarks are political or religious in nature and therefore deserving of your disapproval, can you at least explain why “You’re the one who’s pwned, muthafucka” is more acceptable, contributes more, and rates narry a wagging finger or offer of advice? > [@](#): > > Many people have commented and complained about your tendency to hijack threads (and if the hijacks were funny, people would be laughing, not bitching). Nobody has raised a stronger defense than that you’re technically not transgressing any rules or that you’re hijacks aren’t really too annoying. I don’t recall anyone saying your frequent derailing of threads is a positive contribution to the board, though many have argued vigerously that they detract from it. I suggest that you have ignored arguments to the contrary. I’ve had my defenders, including in this thread. One poster even risked being banned to defend me. Maybe it’s just the case that people think your complaints are so trivial as to be undeserving of comment. Maybe that’s why your “many” constitutes such a tiny percentage of posters. > [@](#): > > I’m happy to listen to a counter-argument as to why your hijacks add value to the board, but I haven’t seen one yet. I think they add value because they offer an alternate point of view. I do not demand that anyone agree with me, but only that I be allowed to have my say. If someone thinks it is a greater contribution to discuss baguettes than to defend capitalism, they’re entitled. The left speaks. The right speaks. I speak. If my views do not humor you, that’s too bad. Maybe you should seek out a nice comedy board. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-just-not-fair-ck-haven/315871/394 "2005-08-17T20:03:17Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > The problem I’ve always encountered with entertaining some of the advice given is that what pleases one man might not please another. Take A’s advice, and piss off B. Take B’s advice, and piss off A. And quite often, C will be pissed off just to be pissed off. well. it isn’t that simple, really. MHO. In the parlance of message board behavior, what you have is: A. set of people loudly proclaiming “this thing you do pisses me off hugely”. B. set of other people who post “eh, it doesn’t bother me very much”. and C. even greater quantities of people who don’t bother posting their feelings on the subject (either you’ve pissed them off enough that they have you on ignore and don’t see it at all, or they simply lack sufficient interest on the topic/haven’t seen it) But instead of focusing on relative merits/demerits of those groups, relative totals etc etc, what you _might_ want to consider is that out of the thousands of folks who post here, **most** don’t get pitted at all. or if they do it’s a mild one( “I didn’t appreciate this thing here” “oh, ok, sorry, won’t do it again”). I would agree that your relatively large post count should be taken into consideration, but on balance, I think a fair assesment would be: there are certain specific things/ways you post that bother the shit out of a fair number of persons. Enough that they’ve started quite a number of pit threads about you. some of which grow quite large. many different posters _caring enough about the subject_ to voice it. It isn’t the relative number that should cause reflection, it’s the **degree** of feeling. there’s any number of folks here who bug the shit out of me (no, frankly you’re not one of them, but that’s not my point). There’s _even fewer_ of that number though, that I’d care enough to pounce on in a pit thread about them. and, to date (to the best of my recollection), **no one** that I’ve been pissed off enough to pit. There simply aren’t that many posters who garner the varied and number of threads that you have. Most who get pitted that frequently end up being banned for various reasons, or were one trick pony types/loons ( **JDT** comes to mind for some reason, probably not having anything to do with foreskin) I suspect that most posters would also have that sort of breakdown. “some number of folks that generally irritate me”. a lesser, included number of “folks I’d post in their pit thread”. and a much smaller included number of “folks I’d be likely to open a pit thread about”. I’m not necessarily saying “wrong behavior” “against the rules behavior” but a casual observer could easily get the “behavior that bugs the shit out of a significant number\* of other posters” vibe. (\* by ‘significant number’ I mean: there’s thousands of posters here who never get pitted. the number and varied of folks saying ‘yes, this behavior bugs the shit out of me sufficiently for me to add to a thread’ is significant given the #'s of pit threads about other posters behaviors, the numbers of people that post to those threads). you’ve always treated me with respect, which I appreciate. and I don’t think that you are malicious about your posting. It seems to me that you don’t see your points as tangental hijacky in a bad way, and it seems to bother you significantly when people accuse you of hijacking, =why I believe that it’s not malicious. food for thought perhaps, offered w/o rancor. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-just-not-fair-ck-haven/315871/395 "2005-08-17T20:28:05Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Does what? No one is doing anything wrong. Clearly, what you don’t like about my arguments is your own impotence at refuting them. If you say so, **Lib**. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-just-not-fair-ck-haven/315871/396 "2005-08-17T20:28:50Z")
Thanks, Wring. I hear you. It is indeed the degree of feeling that leaves me so flummoxed. I myself have often expressed that same degree of feeling toward others only to be called rude, hateful, and just plain mean. But put it in perspective; i.e., RedFury just called Spiritus Mundi one of two “pompous blowhards”. You’re an old-timer. Think about that. Spiritus Mundi a pompous blowhard? Spiritus has more brains in one of his turds than RedFury has in his whole head. Maybe he just gets all puffy and mean because he’s stupid. After reading Spiritus’ remarks in this thread (and there is no one I respect more — he’s far smarter than I), it has occured to me that I’ve let this bullshit go unchallenged too long. Setting aside stalkers like Desmostylus or creeps like Daniel, some of this has come about by a snowball effect. I took the criticism to heart, tried to implement it, fell short of satisfying everyone, and went through cycles of being pulled here, pulled there, advised, lecture, cajoled, and just plain ranted at. That’s the nature of a bandwagon. People jump on it and ride. As it turns out, the only thing I was wrong about was giving a damn what they thought. You might think that the number of complainers here is significant, but what you don’t know is how the e-mail has gone. Over the years, I’ve received unsolicited messages forwarded by administration, all of which have been supportive. People just don’t want to get in the middle of it because it is frankly a strain to listen to nutwads like RedFury call geniuses blowhards, and pissholes like Aeschines sling rhetorical shit. I don’t blame people for not jumping into these things. A lot of people don’t like getting dirt all over their clothes. Besides, in all likelihood, I won’t be on this earth for more than another year or two. I’ve simply resolved to be myself. I’m just like everybody else here, just trying to enjoy what I’ve paid for. If people want to pit me, no sweat. They paid too. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-just-not-fair-ck-haven/315871/397 "2005-08-17T20:45:29Z")
You’re right, I haven’t seen the emails. But I also suspect that you can’t be certain that the admins would also forward on complaints about you (ie others who would agree w/ the pitting) I would doubt that they would. I agree w/your assesment of **Spiritus Mundi**. and also agree that one should look closely at **who** is bothered (a comment I’ve tried to point out unsucessfully w/ several liberal posters who post poor arguments “I agree w/you but wish you’d knock it off” sort of thing). But I guess I see a wide variety of folks here saying ‘yea, it bugs the crap outta me too’. vs. just a few loons. I mean, AFAIK, the cast of characters isn’t a legion of folks routinely agreeing w/each others every post (there was indeed a group of folks who used to hover like vultures from time to time, ugly stuff that). It just doesn’t appear to be that here. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-just-not-fair-ck-haven/315871/398 "2005-08-17T20:55:54Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Besides, in all likelihood, I won’t be on this earth for more than another year or two. Holy fucking shit Lib, you can’t just drop a bombshell like that in passing. If it is true you have my deepest sympathy and sincere best wishes. You have never given any indication of terminal illness. It seems exceedingly strange that you would now casually let it slip like that… ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-just-not-fair-ck-haven/315871/399 "2005-08-17T21:28:54Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Sure. If there are five people in the room, I suppose. But when the host doesn’t say you’re drunk, and five thousand other people in the room don’t say you’re drunk, it’s time to consider whether you’re placing too much emphasis on observing me. When the US was trying to take over the governing of Indian tribes, they often held elections where an Indian who didn’t vote was counted as voting in favor of the US. I thought it was bullshit then, too. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2005, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-just-not-fair-ck-haven/315871/400 "2005-08-17T21:59:53Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > Holy fucking shit Lib, you can’t just drop a bombshell like that in passing. If it is true you have my deepest sympathy and sincere best wishes. You have never given any indication of terminal illness. It seems exceedingly strange that you would now casually let it slip like that… Thanks, but no sympathy please. If anything, rejoice with me! There is no life in the atoms. The universe is nothing more than a probability distribution. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-just-not-fair-ck-haven/315871.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-just-not-fair-ck-haven/315871.md?page=21)