# That's just sad now, Kanye West. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 29, 2019, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-just-sad-now-kanye-west/842663 "2019-10-29T18:25:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-just-sad-now-kanye-west/842663/81 "2019-11-23T02:50:31Z")
Wikipedia says the sex tape was filmed in 2002, released in 2007, and then later that year in 2007 they started production on her show. I dunno, I think I have to go with Chronos on this one. Not a fan of slut-shaming, so I’m with MrDibble on that score, but I think it strains credulity to assert the sex tape didn’t play a big factor in her getting a reality show. However, she did have a level fame years before the sex tape was released. From the wikipedia page on Keeping Up with the Kardashians, it says: > [@](#): > > The Kardashian sisters began appearing in the media spotlight more often. In the early 2000s Kim worked as a personal assistant for hotel heiress and reality TV star, Paris Hilton.[13] During her employment for Hilton, Kim briefly developed a very close friendship with Hilton during a high point in Hilton’s fame. This friendship helped boost Kim’s personal fame by allowing her to occasionally appear in episodes of Hilton’s TV show The Simple Life. Furthermore, Kim and Hilton’s close friendship ensured that Kim would appear in public, notably in paparazzi shots, with Hilton. Kim also worked for several other celebrities in the early 2000s, further boosting her fame and connections.[14] Notably, in 2004, Kim became a personal stylist for singer Brandy Norwood. She eventually developed into a full-time stylist, and was a personal shopper and stylist for actress and singer Lindsay Lohan.[15] - Paris Hilton’s personal assistant, occasionally appearing on Hilton’s reality show - Stylist for Lyndsay Lohan - Frequently in paparazzi photos with them - Daughter of one of the lawyers who got OJ off I gotta say, the above list seems like sufficient grounds to try out a reality show with her. To say she wasn’t famous at all until the tape was released is simply not true. Also, the assertion that you don’t name a reality show after a complete nobody is false. Ever hear of “Here Comes Honey Boo Boo”? In the end, I think it’s pretty clear the sex tape helped get the show off the ground, but I don’t think having a sex tape was a _requirement_ to greenlight a show based on her. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-just-sad-now-kanye-west/842663/82 "2019-11-23T07:13:45Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Wikipedia says the sex tape was filmed in 2002, released in 2007, and then later that year in 2007 they started production on her show. Did you miss where they started production/test shooting for \*KUWTK \*in 2006? > [@](#): > > I dunno, I think I have to go with Chronos on this one. Not a fan of slut-shaming, so I’m with MrDibble on that score, but I think it strains credulity to assert the sex tape didn’t play a big factor in her getting a reality show. I would not dispute that it contributed greatly to the early popularity of the show. To think different would be stupid. But that’s not the same thing as her getting the show in the first place. The Kardashians were going to get a reality show, sex tape or no. That’s just the way TV was going, and the way the family was already placed to take advantage, and the ambitions of its family members (especially Kim and Kris). Hell, one other sister besides Kim was already in a reality show before _KUWTK_. The trend was clear. > [@](#): > > However, she did have a level fame years before the sex tape was released.[…] > > I gotta say, the above list seems like sufficient grounds to try out a reality show with her. That was certainly what Ryan Seacrest thought. In [2006](https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/kim-kardashian-ryan-seacrest-give-randy-jackson-credit-kuwtk-192206591.html). I’m sure in **Chronos** ’ mind, Kim showed him the tape then and that’s why he wanted to make a show with them. But he’ll never admit it, just make up some clearly bullshit story of “Hollywood networking”, like that was a real thing. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > Also, the assertion that you don’t name a reality show after a complete nobody is false. Ever hear of “Here Comes Honey Boo Boo”? Also, \*KUWTK \*is modelled on _The Osbournes_, of course they used a title with the name in it. And he’s wrong about\* Duck Dynasty \* in any case, that show \*was \*built around the specific family. Sure, it isn’t named after them, but it is named after their product. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-just-sad-now-kanye-west/842663/83 "2019-11-23T07:22:21Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Did you miss where they started production/test shooting for \*KUWTK \*in 2006? Sorry, I meant development, not production, there. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-just-sad-now-kanye-west/842663/84 "2019-11-23T10:28:02Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Also, \*KUWTK \*is modelled on _The Osbournes_, of course they used a title with the name in it. Ozzy Osbourne was already famous. Chronos’ point is that you only get a reality show in your name if you’re already famous or if you’re clearly about to be, like from a sex tape. Here Comes Honey Boo-Boo refutes that position. The Osbournes and Duck Dynasty do not. EDIT: And yeah, I only very briefly skimmed that wikipedia page looking for dates, then ran across that paragraph. I didn’t look further, so correction noted. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-just-sad-now-kanye-west/842663/85 "2019-11-23T11:56:02Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Ozzy Osbourne was already famous. Chronos’ point is that you only get a reality show in your name if you’re already famous or if you’re clearly about to be, like from a sex tape. Kim K herself wasn’t necessarily famous yet (although on the way up), but \*the name Kardashian \*was already [rather well known](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Kardashian), I’d say.What producer wouldn’t use that in naming their show? ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-just-sad-now-kanye-west/842663/86 "2019-11-23T12:42:36Z")
Agreed completely. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-just-sad-now-kanye-west/842663/87 "2019-11-23T13:05:38Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Well, yes, the Kardashians make money for clothed appearances, too, but only because they’re famous. And so far as anyone can determine, they’re famous for doing porn videos. Nonsense. They’re famous for the reality-TV show _Keeping Up with the Kardashians_, which even I have heard of although I’ve never seen it, and if even I have heard of some pop-culture phenomenon then it pretty much has to be famous. And _KUWTK_ does not include porn videos. You could hypothesize that _KUWTK_ would never have been so successful if Kim Kardashian hadn’t been in the public eye due to her sex tape, but that’s goalpost-shifting. The Kardashians get most of their attention and money via non-pornographic forms of show business and associated marketing. I don’t have much of an opinion about porn one way or the other, but ISTM that if somebody is deliberately trying to exaggerate the role that porn or porn-like activities play in some (female) celebrity’s money and fame, that comes across as a bit misogynistic. It’s rather reminiscent of the late-of-this-Board **Starving Artist** ’s eternal allusions to Beyonce as a “leg-spreading” pop star: the explicitly sexy stuff that apparently makes up such a large part of your personal perception of her is not actually the major part of her professional activities. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-just-sad-now-kanye-west/842663/88 "2019-11-23T13:53:21Z")
Beyonce is famous mostly because she’s a really good dancer, along with being a good enough singer. Even if you’re not sexually attracted to her, you can watch her performances and see good dancing. There’s no comparable talent that Kim Kardashian has, other than her talent at self-promotion. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2019, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-just-sad-now-kanye-west/842663/89 "2019-11-23T14:27:03Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > There’s no comparable talent that Kim Kardashian has, other than her talent at self-promotion. To be famous, nothing more than that is required. It’s like I said earlier, you don’t seem to grok how fame works nowadays in the reality TV and influencer era. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-just-sad-now-kanye-west/842663.md?page=4)