# That's Mars there and I want a closer look - telescope help, please. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 19, 2003, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-mars-there-and-i-want-a-closer-look-telescope-help-please/196189 "2003-08-19T12:37:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jane\_D\_oh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/839c29/32.png) [@Jane\_D\_oh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jane_D_oh)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2003, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-mars-there-and-i-want-a-closer-look-telescope-help-please/196189/1 "2003-08-19T12:37:31Z")
I have been thinking about this for a while and with Mars so close for the next two weeks, I feel that this is the time to committ. I want a telescope, something that I can use for years to come to star and planet gaze. So dopers, **Bad Astronomer** if you’re out there, what should I look for? What questions should I ask? Where should I do my comparison shopping? I am looking to spend between two and three hundred dollars and will keep the scope at our summer place in Wisconsin where I have a pretty clear view of the night sky, not much in the way of city lights - we’ve even seen the northern lights there twice in the fall. Any thoughts or guidance would be appreciated. ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2003, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-mars-there-and-i-want-a-closer-look-telescope-help-please/196189/2 "2003-08-19T12:52:19Z")
If I were you, I’d look into a nice pair of binoculars. There are some 10x50 or even more powerful ones around that would make a better investment than a telescope. Unless you really intend to do a lot of stargazing or moonwatching or planet looking, binoculars are much better. They gather more light, have wider field of view and are typically less expensive than even cheaper telescopes. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2003, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-mars-there-and-i-want-a-closer-look-telescope-help-please/196189/3 "2003-08-19T13:06:08Z")
For a limited budget, I’m going to agree with **Zeldar** iffic. The quality of scope that you are likely (note I say “likely”) to find in that price range will not be of sufficiently high quaility to resolve clearly at the very high mags needed fr planetary viewing. This leads to frustration and dissappointment for beginners. Causing many of them to quit. I would rather see people enjoy their new found hobby for a long time. After naked eye and binoc viewing for a while, then you know your viewing habits and where you really want to go next. And (here’s the kicker), you’ll never outgrow binoc viewing! 🙂 Really! I’ve been in this wonderful hobby for about 25 yrs now. I have a couple of nice scopes I’ve worked my up to, even built one! I’ve gone to many star parties, have had astro photos published and am a member of a couple of viewing clubs/associations. And guess what? I still use my binoculars more than anything else. Easy to set up, fun to use, excellent optical quality. Welcome to the club, whichever way you choose to join. Hope you stick around. ---
**Author:** ![Jane\_D\_oh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/839c29/32.png) [@Jane\_D\_oh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jane_D_oh)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2003, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-mars-there-and-i-want-a-closer-look-telescope-help-please/196189/4 "2003-08-19T13:26:30Z")
Binoculars, who would’ve thought. I have been night viewing sans any hardware for about two years now. I’m pretty sure this is not a passing fancy, it’s just hard to do in the city and I don’t get out to the country as often as I’d like to enjoy the stars. I just started looking at telescopes and it looked like I would have to revise my price estimate upwards, but if binoculars’ll do it, then, hey, off to look for some. Will I really get the detail with binoculars? When I go to look for a telescope, which I will do, eventually, what type of magnification, light grasp do you recommend? ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2003, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-mars-there-and-i-want-a-closer-look-telescope-help-please/196189/5 "2003-08-19T13:34:45Z")
Go into [www.deja.com](http://www.deja.com) and type “buying telescope” as a search key. You’ll get dozens of hits. This is one of those questions that gets asked pretty much on a daily basis on the alt.astronomy newsgroup. So just scanning those threads will be very informative. If you don’t want to rush your decision, you might check to see if a local astronomy group (maybe at a local college) has viewing nights. You might get a chance to see Mars through a really good telescope and talk to people with strong opinions about what kind of equipment to get. ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2003, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-mars-there-and-i-want-a-closer-look-telescope-help-please/196189/6 "2003-08-19T13:37:59Z")
**Jane D’oh!** , my credentials are not as convincing as **NoClueBoy** ’s, but I own a scope given me for Christmas a couple of years ago. It’s a Meade refractor and has a nice tripod. It even has a computer drive and some other bells and whistles. I suspect the giver spent in the range of $200 for it. And that’s pretty close to low end for such a thing. $200 would buy some extra fine binoculars, along with a tripod or monopod to help steady some heavy magnification glasses. When you see something like 7x35 or 7x50 or 10x50, it’s the first number that tells the power of magnification. The second number tells the width (diameter) of the lens. So, looking in the 20x and up range will provide about all the magnification you’ll need for moon, planet, and “extended object” viewing. The “extended objects” would include nebulae, galaxies, clusters, etc. About the only thing a telescope is good for in the city is looking in people’s windows! Seriously, until you’re ready for an observatory, photography equipment, clock drives, and all the geegaws it takes to make a telescope practical, stick with the binoculars. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2003, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-mars-there-and-i-want-a-closer-look-telescope-help-please/196189/7 "2003-08-19T13:44:52Z")
Look at [Astronomics](http://www.astronomics.com/main/), or pick up an Orion catalog. A good 10X80 on a tripod or a 7X50 handheld is good for binoc viewing. Telescopes: For planetary viewing, refractors are the choice. Use a high mag eyepiece. For deep sky viewing, reflectors. A good quality Dobsonian mount reflector can be found in the $500.00 range. They can be used for for planetary viewing, too, just have to get different eyepieces, A high quality refractor can cost upwards of $2500.00. So, that’s why I say, learn your viewing habits and wants first. BTW, except for planetary viewing, the light gathering capability is more impotant than magnification. An 8" reflector will show you more objects than a 6" reflector or a 3" refractor. On binocs, the first number is the magnification, the second is the diameter. 10X50 means 10 power with a 50mm objective. The larger the SECOND number, the more useful for astro viewing. 10 power is about the limit for handheld. I like my 10X42s. Also useful for terrestrial viewing. Start looking at some magazines, too. _Sky & Telescope_ is my fave. A web search will bring up a lot to read and consider. Hope this helps. ---
**Author:** ![Jane\_D\_oh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/839c29/32.png) [@Jane\_D\_oh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jane_D_oh)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2003, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-mars-there-and-i-want-a-closer-look-telescope-help-please/196189/8 "2003-08-19T13:54:01Z")
Thanks you guys, really. There are some great links here and lots of reading for me to do. I appreciate the input and ideas. I’m off to read now. I may be back later with questions. ---
**Author:** ![CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crankyasanoldman/32/11670_2.png) [@CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrankyAsAnOldMan)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2003, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-mars-there-and-i-want-a-closer-look-telescope-help-please/196189/9 "2003-08-19T14:07:42Z")
Can anyone address spotting scopes? When Jane said “cabin” and you guys mentioned binoculars, I wondered how a spotting scope would stack up. My parents have one and it’s fabulous for seeing wildlife. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2003, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-mars-there-and-i-want-a-closer-look-telescope-help-please/196189/10 "2003-08-19T14:08:04Z")
Well, let’s deal with your questions in order. 1. First of all, in terms of viewing Mars, you may end up being disappointed. Even at relatively high levels of magnificantion, Mars is NOT that impressive a sight. 150-200x reveals a very small dot, and without experience you will see little detail on it. Mars is a crummy target unless you have a very large telecope that delivers the resolution needed for very high magnifications. (OTOH, you will be overjoyed with Jupiter and Saturn in a small scope.) 2. For $200-$300 your options are limited to either a 6-8" reflector, a small refractor, or binoculars. I heartily endorse the idea of getting binoculars, but the truth of the matter is you can get a pair of 7x50 or 10x50 Bushnell binocs for $40 at a Wal-Mart that will deliver very nice views. Not ideal astro binocs but for the amateur they’re just fine. So get binoculars AND a telescope, that’s what I say. Find yourself a TELESCOPE store - you may have to look long and far - and go in and talk to them. They will tell you the same thing everyone here will tell you; what a beginner wants is simplicity and maximum APERTURE. Aperture is what gives you more light gathering; remember, most of the things you’ll want to look at are hard to see not because they are too small, but because they are too _dim._ The apparent size of the Andromeda Galaxy is wider than the Moon, but you don’t see it because it’s very dim. For your price range a 6" Dobsonian is a reasonable purchase because it’s good aperture and it’s simple and cheap and most places throw in some cheap eyepeices. The Dobson mount is super simple. It’s big and heavy, but a perfect beginner’s scope. Remember that **a real telescope does not have a “power” measured by magnification.** Magnification is determined by what eyepeice you use, divided into the focal length of the telescope; you can set pretty much any real telescope to any magnification you want if you have the eyepeices. For most viewing, you will vary your magnification between 30-40x and 150-200x, depending on what you’re looking at. There’s a practical limit to how much zoom you can use - in a 6" it’s about 300x in absolutely perfect conditions - but it’s not really that important for most purposes. I find most of the time I use low to moderate magnifications. Of course, your choice of magnificantions is limited by your selection of eyepeices. However, most scope stores will sell you a Dobsonian with two eyepeices and a cheap Barlow lens (which doubles or triples magnification) which gives you a nice range of options. I want to also stress that **Zeldar** is wrong. Telescopes are lots of fun in the city, because you get very clear views of the Moon and the major planets. Jupiter, Saturn, and Mars (as well as Venus and Mercury, but they’re harder to spot due to the limited viewing time) are bright enough to be seen through any light pollution; I’ve spent many an evening in the middle of Toronto happily watching Jupiter and its four biggest moons, marvelling at Saturn’s rings, and hunting for Venus or Mercury. Of course, you an also get exceptional views of the Moon. If you get a solar filter (pricey) you can do solar viewing. And some major deep sky objects can be seen too; for instance, the Great Nebula in Orion is quite plainly visible from a city, and you can get some really good views of it. Naturally, dark skies are 100 times better, but don’t think there isn’t great stuff to be seen in a city. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2003, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-mars-there-and-i-want-a-closer-look-telescope-help-please/196189/11 "2003-08-19T14:08:10Z")
FYI, seeing as you have a limited budget, you might try buying used equipment. Check out [www.astromart.com](http://www.astromart.com) for both scopes and binoculars. You can find some great deals there. Mr. Athena has bought and sold through Astromart for several years, and has had great success. Also, check out any local astronomy clubs. Most clubs have nights that you can come out and view through a variety of scopes, so you can see what the differences are. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2003, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-mars-there-and-i-want-a-closer-look-telescope-help-please/196189/12 "2003-08-19T14:09:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CrankyAsAnOldMan \* > \*\*Can anyone address spotting scopes? When Jane said “cabin” and you guys mentioned binoculars, I wondered how a spotting scope would stack up. My parents have one and it’s fabulous for seeing wildlife. \*\* We use our spotting scope to look at planets and such every once in a while. It actually works pretty well - you can see pretty nice detail of the mood. It’s a great “quick look” scope for nights when you don’t really want to haul out the big guns. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2003, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-mars-there-and-i-want-a-closer-look-telescope-help-please/196189/13 "2003-08-19T18:28:23Z")
Spotting scopes can be fun, but the optical quality (especially of the zooms) is often insufficient for detail planetary viewing. But for the moon, wow! They can be useful. And like **Athena** said, for those nights you don’t feel like setting up. BTW, here is [Orion](http://www.telescope.com/jump.jsp?itemID=0&itemType=HOME_PAGE)’s home page. Order their free catalog. Also, click on “Learning Center.” **Zeldar** , point your scope at the sky. Even in the city, you can get some fine views (like **Rick Jay** said). Really. 🙂 You’ll find yourslef wanting some eyepiece filters for even better views through the light pollution. Everyone who is interested is starting might want to do some light\* reading: [Turn Left At Orion](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0521781906/qid=1061317416/br=1-6/ref=br_lf_b_6//103-8153655-3287031?v=glance&s=books&n=13443) [The Backyard Astronomer’s Guide](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/155209507X/qid=1061317416/br=1-1/ref=br_lf_b_1//103-8153655-3287031?v=glance&s=books&n=13443) [Night Sky Star Dial](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0961320745/qid=1061317416/br=1-20/ref=br_lf_b_20//103-8153655-3287031?v=glance&s=books&n=13443) [Exploring The Night Sky With Binoculars](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0961320710/ref=pd_sim_books_1/103-8153655-3287031?v=glance&s=books) [Nightwatch](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1552093026/ref=pd_bxgy_text_1/103-8153655-3287031?v=glance&s=books&st=*) Hope this isn’t over kill, but I’m excited for you. \*pun. so shoot me already ---
**Author:** ![KeithT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@KeithT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KeithT)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-mars-there-and-i-want-a-closer-look-telescope-help-please/196189/14 "2003-08-22T00:55:44Z")
May I suggest going out and trying a few scopes before you commit to a purchase? I help run a public viewing program at a small observatory near Rockford every Tuesday and Saturday after dusk. In addition to our main 11-inch Celestron relfector, we have several smaller reflectors, refractors, and astronomy-quality binoculars that are closer to the range of what you’re looking for. Quite a few guests come up from the Chicago area to get out of the city glare; I’d be happy to arrange a demonstration any night we’re open. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-mars-there-and-i-want-a-closer-look-telescope-help-please/196189/15 "2003-08-22T06:06:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Finagle \* > **If you don’t want to rush your decision, you might check to see if a local astronomy group (maybe at a local college) has viewing nights. You might get a chance to see Mars through a really good telescope and talk to people with strong opinions about what kind of equipment to get.** This is the most important advice. Don’t buy a telescope until you look through a few and know what to expect. Binoculars are nice for deep-sky objects (galaxies, nebulae, etc) but completely useless for looking at planets. Some would say it’s no big loss, since even a high-end amateur telescope can resolve features on only 5 planets and satellites (Earth, Moon, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn). Spotting scopes are not ideal for astronomical use. They incorporate extra optics to turn the image right side up, which is unnecessary for astronomy and only degrades the image. ---
**Author:** ![starman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@starman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/starman)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-mars-there-and-i-want-a-closer-look-telescope-help-please/196189/16 "2003-08-22T10:58:26Z")
I think Hardin Optical have a 8" Dob for around $300. -Oli ---
**Author:** ![Jane\_D\_oh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/839c29/32.png) [@Jane\_D\_oh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jane_D_oh)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-mars-there-and-i-want-a-closer-look-telescope-help-please/196189/17 "2003-08-22T12:40:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KeithT \* > \*\*…Quite a few guests come up from the Chicago area to get out of the city glare; I’d be happy to arrange a demonstration any night we’re open. \*\* I reeeaaallly appreciate the offer and I will send you an e-mail to figure out a day (evening) that works. Thanks!!! ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2003, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-mars-there-and-i-want-a-closer-look-telescope-help-please/196189/18 "2003-08-23T10:36:46Z")
[quick hijack] i’m looking up with my naked eye and saw a bright unblinking white star. that is a satellite right? mars is a blinking orange star right? [/quick hijack] ---
**Author:** ![KeithT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@KeithT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KeithT)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2003, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-mars-there-and-i-want-a-closer-look-telescope-help-please/196189/19 "2003-08-23T14:21:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by shijinn \* > \*\*[quick hijack] > i’m looking up with my naked eye and saw a bright unblinking white star. that is a satellite right? mars is a blinking orange star right? > [/quick hijack] \*\* What time? What location? How far up? If it was moving, it was probably a satellite. If not, it was a star. If you’re in the mid latitudes of the northern hemipshere and were looking almost straight up between about 9 and 11, it was probably Vega. Mars shines steadily and is a very bright, reddish-orange when on the horizon but takes on a yellow-orange cast as it rises higher into the sky. ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2003, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-mars-there-and-i-want-a-closer-look-telescope-help-please/196189/20 "2003-08-23T16:54:00Z")
around 10pm in singapore facing east near the moon. as far as i can tell it’s not moving… i remember reading someplace that stars which do not twinkle are probably satellites, is that true? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-mars-there-and-i-want-a-closer-look-telescope-help-please/196189.md?page=2)