# That's not a Bagel! It's a chewy donut! Not if it contains.... **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 12, 2000, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-not-a-bagel-its-a-chewy-donut-not-if-it-contains/32921 "2000-09-12T19:31:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2000, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-not-a-bagel-its-a-chewy-donut-not-if-it-contains/32921/1 "2000-09-12T19:31:56Z")
I’m working with person who is argues that a “real” bagel can have chocolate chips. I argue that chocolate-chip “bagels” have the same relevance to true bagels that Velveeta cheeze-like product have to, say, a true Cheddar. With the single exception of cinnamon-rasin, I argue that if you can’t put lox on it, it’s not a bagel, it’s a chewy donut and leads inevitably to abominations such as \ candy-cane “bagels” (peppermint flavored, red dyed dough braided in) or, even worse \ Froot Loop “bagels” (tutti-fruti bagels with crushed “Froot Loops” on top). I’ve actually seen these. The horror… He argues that it’s chewey and bagel shaped, therefore it’s a bagel. I respond “By your reasoning, birds have two legs, you have two legs, therefore you’re a turkey.” (Engaging in a bit of jury-tampering, let me also point out that he proudly drowns his hot-dogs with ketchup.) The specific question is: If it has chocolate chips, is it a bagel or a chewy donut? What do **YOU** think? As a side question, is this a complete list of “real” bagels?: Plain Egg Salt Garlic Onion Poppy seed Sesame seed Rye Wheat(maybe) and, oddly, cinnamon-raisin Fenris ---
**Author:** ![nederlander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8e8cbc/32.png) [@nederlander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nederlander)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2000, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-not-a-bagel-its-a-chewy-donut-not-if-it-contains/32921/2 "2000-09-12T19:45:53Z")
but it’s certainly strange. i’ve never heard of anything like that. I usually eat plain bagels with cream cheese, and occasionally butter and jam when the mood strikes me. chocolate plus bagel equals weird, but those other things you mentioned are abominations. candy cane? froot loops? bleh. i’ll pass. ---
**Author:** ![Crunchy\_Frog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ebca7d/32.png) [@Crunchy\_Frog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crunchy_Frog)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2000, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-not-a-bagel-its-a-chewy-donut-not-if-it-contains/32921/3 "2000-09-12T19:46:38Z")
Is there a problem with blueberry bagels? I kinda like those. ---
**Author:** ![DavisMcDavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dfb087/32.png) [@DavisMcDavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavisMcDavis)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2000, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-not-a-bagel-its-a-chewy-donut-not-if-it-contains/32921/4 "2000-09-12T19:49:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fenris \* > \*\* > As a side question, is this a complete list of “real” bagels?: > Plain > Egg > Salt > Garlic > Onion > Poppy seed > Sesame seed > Rye > Wheat(maybe) > and, oddly, cinnamon-raisin > > Fenris \*\* You forgot “Everything” and “Pumpernickel”. I think the important distinction for a bagel is that the dough is boiled before it’s baked (that’s why they’re chewy). I figure you can put whatever you want in it, but if you think I’m gonna be eating a peppermint bagel, you might want to think again. I mean, I’d say they are bagels, but tacky. Like Velveeta, for example. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2000, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-not-a-bagel-its-a-chewy-donut-not-if-it-contains/32921/5 "2000-09-12T20:27:35Z")
How about asiago? With all that cheesy goodness baked right into the dough. Mmmm, good. ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2000, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-not-a-bagel-its-a-chewy-donut-not-if-it-contains/32921/6 "2000-09-12T20:31:16Z")
I had an everything bagel, toasted, with jalapeno-and-salsa cream cheese at Einstein Brothers this morning. Does that count? ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2000, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-not-a-bagel-its-a-chewy-donut-not-if-it-contains/32921/7 "2000-09-12T20:46:32Z")
Hey, don’t forget potato bagels. With or without cracked peppercorn in it. Toast that puppy up, smear some garlic cream cheese on it, and I’d pay Einstein’s $10,000 for it just the same. Yum!!! As for your question - yeah, anything that tries to make the bagel sweeter or more flavorful undeniably changes the character. Now it’s become more of a flavored bread item than an honest-to-YHWH bagel. My criterion is: how good will kosher food taste on it? For example: Would I put chopped liver on a peppermint bagel? _ **Hell no.** _ Ergo, it is not a bagel. Would I do the same on a pumpernickel bagel? _ **Yes, and even voluntarily convert to Orthodoxy for it.** _ Ergo, it is a bagel. That having been said, it’s pretty clear that **Fenris** ’ list covers everything that should be considered a bagel. There are, however, exceptions to every rule, and cinnamon-raisin and asiago cheese bagels are those exceptions. You want blueberries, put 'em in your pancakes or waffles where they belong. Same with chocolate chips. ---
**Author:** ![rundogrun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5daacb/32.png) [@rundogrun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rundogrun)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2000, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-not-a-bagel-its-a-chewy-donut-not-if-it-contains/32921/8 "2000-09-12T21:05:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Olentzero \* > \*\*There are, however, exceptions to every rule, and cinnamon-raisin and asiago cheese bagels are those exceptions. You want blueberries, put 'em in your pancakes or waffles where they belong. Same with chocolate chips. \*\* Chocolate chips have no business being in a bagel. Blueberries, however, are perfectly fine. It’s not like there’s a whole lot of a difference between a raisin and a blueberry anyway. For the record, there are also marble bagels…a rye/pumpernickel combo that rocks if you can find them. But I suppose at the end of the day, it’s just a combination of two kinds that have already been named here. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2000, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-not-a-bagel-its-a-chewy-donut-not-if-it-contains/32921/9 "2000-09-12T21:33:47Z")
Black Russian bagels. Really dark pumpernickel with onion in it and sesame seeds on top. They are made in the Bagel Stop in Bergenfield, New Jersey and are in the top 5 of best things I ever ate. ---
**Author:** ![lucie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ed8c4c/32.png) [@lucie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lucie)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2000, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-not-a-bagel-its-a-chewy-donut-not-if-it-contains/32921/10 "2000-09-12T21:43:40Z")
Mmmm… toasted chocolate-chip bagel with peanut-butter. Read that and gag, bagel-nazis! And I hate cream cheese, too! Ha-ha-ha-ha! ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2000, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-not-a-bagel-its-a-chewy-donut-not-if-it-contains/32921/11 "2000-09-12T21:51:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jab1 \* > \*\*I had an everything bagel, toasted, with jalapeno-and-salsa cream cheese at Einstein Brothers this morning. Does that count? \*\* I think the “everything” part can be forgiven. However, the “toasted”, “jalapeno-and-salsa”, and “Einstein Brothers” parts disqualify you. ---
**Author:** ![teela\_brown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d9b06d/32.png) [@teela\_brown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/teela_brown)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2000, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-not-a-bagel-its-a-chewy-donut-not-if-it-contains/32921/12 "2000-09-12T23:48:04Z")
How about the pizza bagel? I also like the cheese and green chili kind, too. With a kosher pickle and a diet Coke. Breakfast of champions! ---
**Author:** ![Kid\_Gilligan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b19c9b/32.png) [@Kid\_Gilligan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kid_Gilligan)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2000, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-not-a-bagel-its-a-chewy-donut-not-if-it-contains/32921/13 "2000-09-12T23:52:54Z")
Get a life. If someone wants to put pieces of broken glass into a bagel, it doesn’t cease to be a bagel. It just becomes nasty. I tried an Orange/Mango bagel once. It was so disgustingly sticky that it couldn’t coexist in the same box or bag as any of the other bagels. That doesn’t mean it wasn’t a bagel. It just means I’ll never buy one again. If everything had to stay the way it was invented, you would be reading this message on a TRS-80 while your phone receiver was upside down on an acoustic coupler modem. ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2000, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-not-a-bagel-its-a-chewy-donut-not-if-it-contains/32921/14 "2000-09-13T00:00:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Annie-Xmas \* > Black Russian bagels. Really dark pumpernickel > with onion in it and sesame seeds on top. They > are made in the Bagel Stop in Bergenfield, New > Jersey and are in the top 5 of best things I > ever ate. Do they do mail order? Bagels here on the Left Coast just don’t seem to cut it. Oh, and cinnamon-raisin, chocolate-chip, and blueberry bagels are abominations before God Almighty. Let those who consume them along with their half-caf mochachinos hie their Beemer-driving butts to church to pray for their eternal souls. ---
**Author:** ![Kid\_Gilligan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b19c9b/32.png) [@Kid\_Gilligan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kid_Gilligan)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2000, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-not-a-bagel-its-a-chewy-donut-not-if-it-contains/32921/15 "2000-09-13T00:02:09Z")
Oh, and as for authenticity. I once ate at a Chinese restaurant that was so authentic, I was the only westerner in the place. They had an aquarium where you could choose which fish you wanted them to cook for you. I didn’t recognize the name of anything on the menu. I did my best to order something that didn’t sound too weird. I didn’t do a very good job. It was probably the best Chinese Food I had ever eaten, but I never would have known it. I grew up on americanized Chinese food. That’s what I know. Egg Foo Young. Almond Chicken. Chow Mein for Heaven’s sake.(Which originally was no more than table scraps eaten by indigents) Most of us didn’t grow up eating kosher. We never developed the jaw strength to enjoy a truly authentic bagel. If you know the difference, more power to you. But give us a break. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2000, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-not-a-bagel-its-a-chewy-donut-not-if-it-contains/32921/16 "2000-09-13T12:19:27Z")
Do they do mail order? Bagels here on the Left Coast just don’t seem to cut it. I doubt it. They are just a hole in the wall that makes the best bagels. Some places are like that. ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2000, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-not-a-bagel-its-a-chewy-donut-not-if-it-contains/32921/17 "2000-09-13T15:21:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lucie \* > **Read that and gag, bagel-nazis!** That’s Bagel-_ **Chosidim** _, you meshuggeneh _shiksa_. ---
**Author:** ![thinksnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thinksnow/32/2849_2.png) [@thinksnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thinksnow)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2000, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-not-a-bagel-its-a-chewy-donut-not-if-it-contains/32921/18 "2000-09-13T16:00:10Z")
**DavisMcDavis** spanked this one on the rump with the comment about the boiling pryor to baking. Donuts are deep fried. **bagel** (bâ´gel) noun A glazed, ring-shaped roll with a tough, chewy texture, made from plain yeast dough that is dropped briefly into nearly boiling water and then baked. [Yiddish beygl, from Middle High German \*böugel, diminutive of bouc, ring, from Old High German boug.] **doughnut** also donut (do´nùt´, -net) noun 1. A small ring-shaped cake made of rich, light dough that is fried in deep fat. Also called olicook. The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition copyright © 1992 by Houghton Mifflin Company. So there. And btw, I was eating an everythign bagel with peppered turkey and provolone while reading this. yum ---
**Author:** ![Kasugai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/df788c/32.png) [@Kasugai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kasugai)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2000, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-not-a-bagel-its-a-chewy-donut-not-if-it-contains/32921/19 "2000-09-14T13:03:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kid\_Gilligan \* > \*\*If everything had to stay the way it was invented, you would be reading this message on a TRS-80 while your phone receiver was upside down on an acoustic coupler modem. > \*\* Whoa, time out. There’s another way? Oops, line noise - gotta go. ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2000, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-not-a-bagel-its-a-chewy-donut-not-if-it-contains/32921/20 "2000-09-14T15:36:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ruadh \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by jab1 \* > > \*\*I had an everything bagel, toasted, with jalapeno-and-salsa cream cheese at Einstein Brothers this morning. Does that count? \*\* > > I think the “everything” part can be forgiven. However, the “toasted”, “jalapeno-and-salsa”, and “Einstein Brothers” parts disqualify you. \*\* I wouldn’t eat a bagel that wasn’t toasted first. In the future, I will skip the jalapeno-and-salsa cream cheese, though; too spicy to eat with hot coffee. What the hell’s wrong with Einstein Brothers? (Please note that I was born a Texan, formerly a Methodist, who grew up in a small town in which there were no Jewish people at all. IOW, I came by my ignorance honestly.) I bet that, years ago, people who had eaten plain bagels with plain cream cheese for years complained when they started making them with sesame seeds and poppy seeds and toasted onions and garlic and so forth. But those are acceptable _now_, aren’t they? I’ve also heard you can’t get a decent bagel outside of New York City because it’s the water that makes them so good. Having never been to NYC I cannot verify this. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-not-a-bagel-its-a-chewy-donut-not-if-it-contains/32921.md?page=2)