# That's not music! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 3, 2001, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-not-music/96665 "2001-12-03T18:42:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2001, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-not-music/96665/1 "2001-12-03T18:42:07Z")
Damn you, hip-hop isn’t music. I don’t know what exactly it is, but it ain’t fucking music. Music has a melody, hell, olivefucking _disco_ had a melody. Hip hop is a collection of words strung together and laid over a generic back beat. Fuck, I can write hip-hop, it takes no talent. Here goes: Blah blah blah yippie n_gger n_gger fuck ya crime rules damn da man tits **Malcolm X soundbite** blah blah yippie n_gger fool crime and violence guns for kids n_gger get it up! get it up! _Refrain for 3.8 minutes_ Now I’m the new Slim Shady (or whatever that asshole’s name is). Give me a big record deal and Britney Spears’ home phone number! Fuck that yo! ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2001, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-not-music/96665/2 "2001-12-03T19:07:10Z")
I commend you, **Mr. Ellis** , on your fearless stand against one of the true evils in our society. It takes rare courage to be the 5,789,256 person to speak out against this art form since it’s origin twenty years ago. My heart is lifted to see someone take such an unprecendented stand. However, I must caution you. You can critisize hip-hop all you want, but for the love of God, don’t touch the lambada. That forbidden dance is a powder keg just waiting to go off. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2001, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-not-music/96665/3 "2001-12-03T19:21:33Z")
You forgot something, I got all them juices, For all dem bitches, All roun for more **kin Kill some cops, I got so much gold, Mother**\*\* politicians \*\*\*\*\*\*\* \*\*\*\* \*\*\*\*! Repress me you can’t supress me, Cos I’ll come back harder, You can’t stand agin me We is 'hood \*\*\*\*\*\* you all \*\*\*\* Flash cars \*\*\*\*\* Lady suck my \*\*\*\*\* Homos \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\* ( Stolen,looped drum track and maybe guitar riff by someone who actually had some talent) _ad nauseum_ ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2001, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-not-music/96665/4 "2001-12-03T19:32:08Z")
So whats your definition of music then michael? And to those who dont think hip-hop artists have musical talent, go buy a roots album. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2001, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-not-music/96665/5 "2001-12-03T19:34:34Z")
…sigh…where is **Dalovindj** when you need him? I agree wholeheartedly that a great deal of hiphop is tuneless trash, but so is a lot of rock (Limp Bizkit or Mudvayne anyone?). But some hiphop artists do produce interesting and original music. **The Roots, Lauren Hill, Fatboy Slim,and Eminem** are just a few of the many hiphop artists who break down material in a fresh way. You may as well trash reggae because bands use similar bass lines and talk about Haile Selassie in a lot of songs. ---
**Author:** ![magdalene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df788c/32.png) [@magdalene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magdalene)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2001, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-not-music/96665/6 "2001-12-03T19:38:02Z")
Some guy in a university class I took did a report on hip-hop and reggae as the distillation of post-slavery dreams and aspirations, comparing their manifestation in a wealthy urban culture vs. a poor, rural culture. Damn, I wish I had a copy of that. Hip-hop is music, it’s poetry, it’s verbal expression. Some of it approaches greatness, some of it is Vanilla Ice - what can you do? Every art form has its excellence and its shit. Michael Ellis, you get to decide whether you like hip-hop or consider it to be “music”, but you don’t decide for anyone else, y’hear? [sub]Beeblebrox, here’s a high five and four snaps in a slow Z formation[/sub]. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2001, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-not-music/96665/7 "2001-12-03T19:38:22Z")
What a ridiculous OP. “Your music sucks.” Who can intelligently argue that? Dumbass. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2001, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-not-music/96665/8 "2001-12-03T19:45:06Z")
Allow me to elaborate on my last post. Hip-hop like any genre in music has talented people and tripe. A song with some guy singing 'bout pimps and crack, is just as bad as some korn clone playing 3 notes and screaming about mommy never loving them. Dont even get my started on nsync and britney. I dont expect you to take the time to listen, but there are some really good hip-hop acts out there, that can actually play instruments, and dont have stereotypical messages. There isnt really any good or bad music, its all opinionated. I’d even bet some people would be into a band that plays a empty tuna can with a pencil. Btw here are some lyrics for popular **Non** hip-hop music these days. Love me all night blah blah hold me tender make love to me im never gonna leave ya oh baby you are the only one for me etc etc If music is bad its bad no matter what genre its in. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2001, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-not-music/96665/9 "2001-12-03T19:57:42Z")
Shit, I should never post before morning coffee. Point taken, its ridiculous to say what’s music and what isn’t, and admittedly I know little of hip-hop. I was just venting at the stuff I hear in my dorm. Yes, I’m a petty petty man. I admit it. I don’t know what it is about hip hop I don’t like, to be honest. Call it an aversion to songs using words like n\*gger or bitch. I have a major problem with the ‘n’ word, so much so I can’t even say it. Not that I do, but even by myself, quoting lines from _Blazing Saddles_ I have to mumble something to replace it. And yes, I do backpedal much. In fact, sometimes I think I’m always in reverse. ---
**Author:** ![k.os](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e0b2c6/32.png) [@k.os](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k.os)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2001, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-not-music/96665/10 "2001-12-03T20:08:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Beeblebrox \* > \*\*I commend you, **Mr. Ellis** , on your fearless stand against one of the true evils in our society. It takes rare courage to be the 5,789,256 person to speak out against this art form since it’s origin twenty years ago. My heart is lifted to see someone take such an unprecendented stand. However, I must caution you. You can critisize hip-hop all you want, but for the love of God, don’t touch the lambada. That forbidden dance is a powder keg just waiting to go off. \*\* Rocket fuel malt liquor **DAMN**! Great reference, **Beeblebrox**! ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2001, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-not-music/96665/11 "2001-12-03T20:08:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by magdalene \* > **Some guy in a university class I took did a report on hip-hop and reggae as the distillation of post-slavery dreams and aspirations, comparing their manifestation in a wealthy urban culture vs. a poor, rural culture. Damn, I wish I had a copy of that.** That’s blues. 🙂 Combine that with disaffected, white folk music (country) and you get a rock n’ roll. Filter all that through an inner city, urban cheesecloth, and there you have the beginnings of hip hop. From there, it’s just evolution. **Michael Ellis** , sorry I called you a dumbass. Music of all forms, and its expression, is very near and dear to my heart. Sometimes I wax self-righteous. All that said, I wouldn’t piss down P-Diddy’s throat if his guts were on fire. Well, I might. ---
**Author:** ![Medea\_s\_Child](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Medea\_s\_Child](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Medea_s_Child)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2001, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-not-music/96665/12 "2001-12-03T20:12:57Z")
On one hand, yea you need your ass handed to you about that OP. On the other, a person next to me in the dorms made me hate ( **HATE** ) hip hop with a passion last year. (And I like hip hop. I hate volume at inconsiderate hours. I hate overwhelming bass when I have an exam in six hours and am _TRYING TO SLEEP_. I hate having to tell my _ **RA** _ to **SHUT UP** because she and her friends are _ **TOO FUCKING LOUD** _. Sorry… residual bitterness.) There are decent lyrics and musicians out there. That you can’t recognize them from the ever repeating bass beat that is giving you a headache isn’t their fault, its the fault of the assholes who won’t turn it down. [sub]and I realize that I can forgive murderers faster than I forgive people who deprive me of sleep. sigh.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2001, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-not-music/96665/13 "2001-12-03T20:15:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Beeblebrox \* > \*\*I commend you, **Mr. Ellis** , on your fearless stand against one of the true evils in our society. It takes rare courage to be the 5,789,256 person to speak out against this art form since it’s origin twenty years ago. My heart is lifted to see someone take such an unprecendented stand. However, I must caution you. You can critisize hip-hop all you want, but for the love of God, don’t touch the lambada. That forbidden dance is a powder keg just waiting to go off. \*\* I promise nothing! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2001, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-not-music/96665/14 "2001-12-03T20:47:32Z")
I can only feel sorry for you. By writing off a whole genre of music without making any effort to see what other people see in it, you’re cutting off your nose to spite your face. I came late to hip hop (converted in 1995, by Lucas), but once I had my Helen Keller moment and learned that it was as valid an art form as any other, a whole new world opened up for me. Same thing happened when k.d. lang and Dwight Yoakum opened up country western for me, and Shostakovich gave me classical. Any music listener’s life can only be enlightened and expanded by learning to appreciate an unwonted genre. You should treat each unfamiliarity as an invitation, not a challenge. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2001, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-not-music/96665/15 "2001-12-03T21:01:43Z")
Just to beat the dead horse one more time, I think that you are listening to the wrong stuff **Michael**. Pick up a copy of _The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill_ or Digable Planets _Reachin’(A New Refutation of Time and Space_ or anything by the Roots or Common. I think that you will be pleasantly surprised. ---
**Author:** ![AwSnappity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a3d4f5/32.png) [@AwSnappity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AwSnappity)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2001, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-not-music/96665/16 "2001-12-03T21:18:11Z")
When I first saw the subject of this thread, I was going to reply that anything could be music. (“That’s music to my ears!”) However, I see that others have already reprimanded the OP and that the OP has conceded his point. Let there be a distinction between hip-hop and rap (rap is probably what is being described in the OP–it’s usually more gang-centric). I’m not really the one to define the boundaries, as I know little about either genre, but my friends have lectured me many times on the differences between hip-hop and rap. According to them, hip-hop equals all that’s good in the world, and rap is just so horrible that MTV in England named its rap channel “Base”. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![AwSnappity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a3d4f5/32.png) [@AwSnappity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AwSnappity)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2001, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-not-music/96665/17 "2001-12-03T21:21:16Z")
One thing I wanted to add just after I hit the “Submit” button: While rap may sound like the most godawful stuff ever, you gotta give these guys some credit. After all, how fast can you talk? And I would think that freestyling wouldn’t be very easy, either. ---
**Author:** ![dalovindj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@dalovindj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalovindj)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2001, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-not-music/96665/18 "2001-12-03T21:58:17Z")
Not-a-fucking-gain. Ignorant hater talkin shit. Check out [these](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=81984) [conversations](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=83597) and get back to me. DaLovin’ Dj ---
**Author:** ![mouthbreather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a698b9/32.png) [@mouthbreather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mouthbreather)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2001, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-not-music/96665/19 "2001-12-03T22:24:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ogre \* > I wouldn’t piss down P-Diddy’s throat if his guts were on fire. > > Well, I might. \*\* I wouldn’t piss on him if he was on fire but I gladly would piss on him if he was not on fire. 🙂 And, it’s been said already, but go listen to The Roots, Jurassic 5, old Tribe called Quest and De La Soul, Blackalicious, and DJ Shadow before you say rap takes no talent. I have no problem with you saying most popular rap sucks. It does. But if you’re willing to dig a little bit, you will find some gems (As is the case with most music). ---
**Author:** ![gadgetgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c5a1d2/32.png) [@gadgetgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gadgetgirl)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2001, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-not-music/96665/20 "2001-12-03T22:50:09Z")
amen mouthbreather. I’m a big PE and DeLaSoul fan myself. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-not-music/96665.md?page=2)